CommunitarianKevin Posted October 7, 2012 #26 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I think supernatural is a word that people use to write off the very thing I'm talking about. Yes, if you look for things that will discredit what I'm saying, you will absolutely find them. If you look for anything, you'll find it if you try hard enough. I can see that no matter what I say, you're going to hold firm to your beliefs. What do you find so unappealing about believing? I encourage you to do some open-minded exploring, even if just to find out exactly why you believe what you do. You should look at the link in my sig... It's not that I write it off, it's that there are perfectly natural explanations. I leave the supernatural in the realm things that cannot be explained by natural causes. The cause of the Big Bang may be a reason to invoke the supernatural, but I do not think we can know either way...that is why I am not a non-believer but I am certainly not a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer_ Posted October 7, 2012 #27 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You should look at the link in my sig... It's not that I write it off, it's that there are perfectly natural explanations. I leave the supernatural in the realm things that cannot be explained by natural causes. The cause of the Big Bang may be a reason to invoke the supernatural, but I do not think we can know either way...that is why I am not a non-believer but I am certainly not a believer. Ah, and that is where we differ. I am a believer to the very depths of my core. I see where you are coming from, and I really don't mean to imply that there aren't obvious explanations to some things. But I think that at the root of the obvious explanations, "supernatural" explanations are the true causes. Do you believe in energy? Positive and negative, and its effects on mankind? I suppose you could call that "supernatural," but science is just now catching up, to things that people knew to be true far before we thought possible. It was once thought that meditation doesn't have any benefits by the scientific community, but there is actually substantial research being done that is proving this wrong. It was because of science that we denied it, and now it is because of science we are realizing its true benefits. This is just one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommunitarianKevin Posted October 7, 2012 #28 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Ah, and that is where we differ. I am a believer to the very depths of my core. I see where you are coming from, and I really don't mean to imply that there aren't obvious explanations to some things. But I think that at the root of the obvious explanations, "supernatural" explanations are the true causes. Do you believe in energy? Positive and negative, and its effects on mankind? I suppose you could call that "supernatural," but science is just now catching up, to things that people knew to be true far before we thought possible. It was once thought that meditation doesn't have any benefits by the scientific community, but there is actually substantial research being done that is proving this wrong. It was because of science that we denied it, and now it is because of science we are realizing its true benefits. This is just one example. I do not believe in it but I have not looked into it much. I think my wife tends to. She believes in "healing touch." She is a nurse and wants to become certified in healing touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted October 7, 2012 #29 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) If you read the Bible, they were not talking about a local flood. God did, in fact, flood the entire world and gave a reason for it, which I would argue makes him not good. I am not really understanding why you are fighting against me about this...It is as if you are trying to make an argument for why God is good... Is that a fact? I'm not fighting you on anything other than that the world was flooded, and that god was responsible. I do not accept abrahamic mythology as literal truth, nor their definition of god. this was my original point. The abrahamic traditions is the ultimate straw man for atheists. Edited October 7, 2012 by Seeker79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommunitarianKevin Posted October 7, 2012 #30 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Is that a fact? I'm not fighting you on anything other than that the world was flooded, and that god was responsible. I do not accept abrahamic mythology as literal truth, nor their definition of god. this was my original point. The abrahamic traditions is the ultimate straw man for atheists. Okay...I guess I should clarify the Abrahamic faiths...I mean is that not what the vast majority of believers here are? If you go by the Abrahamic faiths, God is not good. The title of the thread "God" kind of implied the Abrahamic God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer_ Posted October 7, 2012 #31 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Okay...I guess I should clarify the Abrahamic faiths...I mean is that not what the vast majority of believers here are? If you go by the Abrahamic faiths, God is not good. The title of the thread "God" kind of implied the Abrahamic God... If you don't want to say he's "good" then, will you at least agree that he does what is necessary? If there is a creating aspect of God, then there must too be a destructive aspect. When the world sinks too far away from God, dissolution is necessary to maintain order. If we didn't stray from God in the first place it wouldn't be necessary, but alas, that is the fate, and that is why there is destruction. Sometimes it's of the physical plane, sometimes the subtle planes. Life is a big cycle, as the Mayans, and many other civilizations and religions held true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted October 8, 2012 #32 Share Posted October 8, 2012 If you don't want to say he's "good" then, will you at least agree that he does what is necessary? If there is a creating aspect of God, then there must too be a destructive aspect. When the world sinks too far away from God, dissolution is necessary to maintain order. If we didn't stray from God in the first place it wouldn't be necessary, but alas, that is the fate, and that is why there is destruction. Sometimes it's of the physical plane, sometimes the subtle planes. Life is a big cycle, as the Mayans, and many other civilizations and religions held true. God floods the world because man is wicked, God promises not the flood the world again because man can't help but to be wicked.Sounds closer to redundancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted October 8, 2012 #33 Share Posted October 8, 2012 God floods the world because man is wicked, God promises not the flood the world again because man can't help but to be wicked. Sounds closer to redundancy. Sounds like God changes his mind.. I'll flood to wipe out the wicked sin...that I knew would take place before hand.. Later I'll change my mind and say - Ok I'm done, no more splish splah shows..you guys are on your own..you suck and I am done with you all..C-ya, wouldn't want to be ya !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinxdom Posted October 8, 2012 #34 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I can never look at the Abrahamic God as God but more like a deity like Zeus who happens to have the name God just to confused people. Which makes the whole thing kinda fun in a sick way. If God was purely all that omni words then he wouldn't be the Abrahamic God and would be more of a neutral type almost like nature. You would also have to define what "Good" is in this context because everybody has a different version of what is good. The bible's version of good "listen to god or else" is completely different from my version of good(don't be a prick which would make the bible's god very very very evil in my book). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted October 8, 2012 #35 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Yes god has to be good, I command him to.. If he chooses not to, he will go to the sin bin ..lol Sin bin was a time out corner at my old primary school..I spent many afternoons there !! Edited October 8, 2012 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinxdom Posted October 8, 2012 #36 Share Posted October 8, 2012 rofl sin bin is the name of a porn shop in the city I live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommunitarianKevin Posted October 8, 2012 #37 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) If you don't want to say he's "good" then, will you at least agree that he does what is necessary? If there is a creating aspect of God, then there must too be a destructive aspect. When the world sinks too far away from God, dissolution is necessary to maintain order. If we didn't stray from God in the first place it wouldn't be necessary, but alas, that is the fate, and that is why there is destruction. Sometimes it's of the physical plane, sometimes the subtle planes. Life is a big cycle, as the Mayans, and many other civilizations and religions held true. Does God do something because he knows it is necessary or is it necessary because God says so? Edited October 8, 2012 by HuttonEtAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beany Posted October 8, 2012 #38 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think what's important is that we are good, not God. And Mother Earth will have her cataclysms, they're a phenomena of the natural world. Re: the flood,l I've said this elsewhere, China had a written history at the time and made no record or note of a flood or inundation of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted October 9, 2012 #39 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Does God do something because he knows it is necessary or is it necessary because God says so? Or.... Is god good because he says he is good or is there something above god that defines god as good or bad. If he just is good because he says he is good, is that worthy of worship. Read about Thomas Aquinas and natural law. a logical nessesity for any religion to have a "good" god, but is not compatable with omnipotence. Edited October 9, 2012 by Seeker79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfknight Posted October 9, 2012 #40 Share Posted October 9, 2012 We are taught as christians that God is all loving all healing all forgiving. Ofcourse the bible was written by man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted October 10, 2012 #41 Share Posted October 10, 2012 We are taught as christians that God is all loving all healing all forgiving. Ofcourse the bible was written by man. We are taught a lot of things..,. But to be men/women we have to investigate things.. It's out duty to our children and god, and we were designed not to be satisfied for a reason. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommunitarianKevin Posted October 10, 2012 #42 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I think what's important is that we are good, not God. And Mother Earth will have her cataclysms, they're a phenomena of the natural world. Re: the flood,l I've said this elsewhere, China had a written history at the time and made no record or note of a flood or inundation of any kind. We are good? Delusion... Or.... Is god good because he says he is good or is there something above god that defines god as good or bad. If he just is good because he says he is good, is that worthy of worship. Read about Thomas Aquinas and natural law. a logical nessesity for any religion to have a "good" god, but is not compatable with omnipotence. That is also another good question. Haven't read a ton of Aquinas, but based on what I have read, he deserves more credit than people give him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivid_Dreamer Posted October 10, 2012 #43 Share Posted October 10, 2012 You guys don't have to agree with me. I do firmly believe this, and yes I've explored other options. There are differences in religions, of course. They are still each their own respective paths--but to the same ultimate reality of things. And to get to the ultimate truth of reality, you need to look at the similarities. Before people even had concepts of aliens, there was religion. Think about that. Wait what? Did you even look up when Alien like beings were being drawn on cave walls? Do you know how many pictures in caves look quite alien like? Oddly enough just happened to be in the same era when we started writing about religion and the idea of God(s) started to take root.....and actually I'm pretty sure most of the first religions that started poping up in the world started out with a Multi-God belief system. If I were ancient man and saw alien beings come around I'd assume that these separate beings were all Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcion Meets E. Sibyl Posted October 10, 2012 #44 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) you guys are on your own..you suck and I am done with you all..C-ya, wouldn't want to be ya !! It seems that way, doesn't it?? The God of the Bible has gone into hiding...or something. He was very physical in ancient times and now, zilch. Perhaps it's a good thing? Curious, indeed. Edited October 10, 2012 by braveone2u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alannis Posted November 12, 2012 #45 Share Posted November 12, 2012 This is gonna be fun. HERE WE GO. Okay He is good I know at times he has gotten peeved at people ( Noah's Ark and etc) overall though he is merciful, again I know the times he hasn't I've read the Bible. But you have to think, you wouldn't you be peeved if people kept causing chaos and ruining all the hard work you made? Not only that but again God doesn't always do nice things, but overall he is merciful and does his best to love every single one of us, but sometimes mankind goes way to far. Think back in Noah's Ark. The wicked went too far with God and I'm sure he didn't enjoy doing it, but how else would he get them to stop? He already attempted to get Noah to preach to them, but they were so far gone in sin they just wouldn't listen anymore. This is one of those things were you just have to imagine if you were Him and you had to look down at all the wicked you were seeing. Don't you think you would be pretty peeved about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbenol Posted November 12, 2012 #46 Share Posted November 12, 2012 But you have to think, you wouldn't you be peeved if people kept causing chaos and ruining all the hard work you made? Too right. Next time my kids tread dog sh!t over my freshly mopped kitchen floor I'm going to drown them in the bath. That's what God would do. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 12, 2012 #47 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Too right. Next time my kids tread dog sh!t over my freshly mopped kitchen floor I'm going to drown them in the bath. That's what God would do. Right? Well he had a guy killed for collecting sticks on the wrong day. Edited November 12, 2012 by Rlyeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regeneratia Posted November 12, 2012 #48 Share Posted November 12, 2012 My two cents: I think the creater god was NOT good. But I think the snake in the garden of eden WAS indeed good, eathing the apple WAS good. I mean, these days, we see so many demiurges (small gods liek the Christian one) being worshiped that I have to ask which demiurge it is they are talking about. She Precedes All! Sophia. She is our redeemer. She is our matron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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