Romney Committed a Felony

[Hawken]

Why in the hell would I care what something like you thinks or wants? You are consumed with hatred and delusional about Obama. Forget about Romney, you aren't voting for him so forget him but do some honest research on Obama. Not just the propaganda put out by the ridiculous Rolling Stone. You are beyond any reasonable argument because you are a zealot but your "God" is a myth. All the things you believe about Obama are fake. They are an illusion. He has done nothing real in life. Read his ****g book and wonder how a drunk, drug addicted HS student got into Columbia. How a guy with no school record got into Harvard. WHy can't we see his transcripts, of his college papers or even meet someone he knew in college.

I know you can't change but at least question your beliefs.

I find it comical you strongly judge a person that you've never meant just by a few post on this website.

Obviously you can't provide proof about Romney with Bain Capital saving 80% of jobs because there's

none to be found. And let me make it clear. I'm not satisfied with Obama's accomplishment the last 4 years.

But given a choice, I will pick the lesser of 2 evils. BTW...Get control of yourself. Just because someone doesn't

agree with you there's no need to flip out like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Ryegrog

[Left-Field]

Someone emailed a pretty funny musical version of the debate.

"Bring down rates"

"Broaden the base"

"Simplify the code"

"Incenitves for growth"

That video was great!

[coolguy]

Legaia you hit the nail right on the head.

Edited October 8, 2012 by coolguy

[+DieChecker]

I could believe that Romney did something like what MoveOn is suggesting, but I would be very surprised if anything could ever be made of it. Anyone who rigged up such a system and actions would definately have hundreds of people who worked to cover up all the trails and tracks. There will little to no corroberating evidence to be found.

I do also agree that the greater number of Bain purchases actually were turned around and fixed, only those that were at deaths door anyway were parted out and put out of business. I've heard it said that Bain did many of those businesses a favor, in that their employees would have been unemployed and lost all their perks (Such as pensions) anyway, and that Bain keep many of those businesses on life support and thus employees being paid, long past when they should have been out looking for another job.

Also if you look you'll see that the Bain Capital business model is now being used by hundreds of top level corporations... because it brings in profits. I don't see how Romney can be pinned down as a traitor if tens of thousands of other top level businessmen are doing the same every day in every major city in the US.

Interesting Read.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/07/the-real-scandal-of-romney-and-bain.html

Edited October 8, 2012 by DieChecker

[Merc14]

It is easy to judge people by a few posts. You are defending the indefensible and use Rolling Stone as a prime source to base your opinions on, that speaks volumes about who you are. Here is some proof http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/more-tenuous-claims-about-romneys-bain-capital-record/2012/07/10/gJQAZmKDbW_blog.html

They say 90% were successful with only 10% going banrupt. Not that hard to find. Once again, stop reading the left's Pravda and branch out before condemning. I strike out because people like you voted this crook into office and then condemn an honest man because he made some money taking failing businesses and turning them around.

[Hawken]

It is easy to judge people by a few posts. You are defending the indefensible and use Rolling Stone as a prime source to base your opinions on, that speaks volumes about who you are. Here is some proof http://www.washingto...mKDbW_blog.html

They say 90% were successful with only 10% going banrupt. Not that hard to find. Once again, stop reading the left's Pravda and branch out before condemning. I strike out because people like you voted this crook into office and then condemn an honest man because he made some money taking failing businesses and turning them around.

Actually, I voted for McCain the last election. When he was a POW in Vietnam he chose to stay

with his fellow POW's when the Vietnamese government was going to release him. It shows

that McCain is a man of honor and unselfishness. Too bad he's not in it again. Romney seems

to be the opposite and been caught on a lot of lies.

As for Romney. The link you provided by Josh Hicks of Fact Checker is just as controversial

as Matt Tiabbi of Rolling Stone. It's going to boil down to what a person chooses to believe.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Ryegrog

[Rafterman]

The desperation of the left to salvage anything from Obama's complete and utter collapse in last week's debate is hilarious - sad, but hilarious.

As for Rolling Stone, I have a free subscription I got from buying some concert tickets - God knows I'd never pay for that drivel. And while the left loves to hold up all of the "hard hitting journalism", I find it rather lacking and much of it doesn't hold up as time goes by. A perfect example was the recent article about Sheriff Joe - basically saying he was the most lawless and corrupt LEO in the history of the US and how he was hurtling toward a prison sentence. Not two months after the article comes out, the Federal Government dropped all charges. Journalism fail.

[Order66]

1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems.

2. Passed the Stimulus: Signed $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009 to spur economic growth amid greatest recession since the Great Depression. Weeks after stimulus went into effect, unemployment claims began to subside. Twelve months later, the private sector began producing more jobs than it was losing, and it has continued to do so for twenty-three straight months, creating a total of nearly 3.7 million new private-sector jobs.

3. Passed Wall Street Reform: Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) to re-regulate the financial sector after its practices caused the Great Recession. The new law tightens capital requirements on large banks and other financial institutions, requires derivatives to be sold on clearinghouses and exchanges, mandates that large banks provide “living wills” to avoid chaotic bankruptcies, limits their ability to trade with customers’ money for their own profit, and creates the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (now headed by Richard Cordray) to crack down on abusive lending products and companies.

It's a brilliant solution to spend spend spend? A couple weeks ago my 5-year-old daughter wanted to have dinner at a restaurant. I told her we didn't have money at the moment, and she said, "I have an idea! We can go to the bank!" Basically her understanding of the economy now rivals Obama's, she equates the bank with a giant money tree. Give her the Nobel Prize I guess. Obama's great accomplishment is to work a giant cash register. Finally a job he is qualified for ...

4. Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.

He promised to withdraw the troops in 2009. Will he take responsibility for the casualties lost because of his failed campaign promise or does the blame fall to Bush?

5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: From a peak of 101,000 troops in June 2011, U.S. forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 slated to leave by the end of summer 2012. According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the combat mission there will be over by next year.

More lives have been lost in Afghanistan during Obama's term than during Bush's, not that these tragic deaths are a numbers game, but if you choose to bring it up ...

6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: In 2011, ordered special forces raid of secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in which the terrorist leader was killed and a trove of al-Qaeda documents was discovered.

This Obama gets credit for, even though he was probably ordering grilled cheese at 3 AM and watching Sportscenter while SEALS were risking their lives so Obama could quickly take the credit.

7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: In 2009, injected $62 billion in federal money (on top of $13.4 billion in loans from the Bush administration) into ailing GM and Chrysler in return for equity stakes and agreements for massive restructuring. Since bottoming out in 2009, the auto industry has added more than 100,000 jobs. In 2011, the Big Three automakers all gained market share for the first time in two decades. The government expects to lose $16 billion of its investment, less if the price of the GM stock it still owns increases.

Yes he did a great job of maintaining the bloated, failed status quo so he could buy the union vote, and now thanks to his restructuring, GM has lost more money than it was given in the bailout. I like Romney's comment that the 500 million wasted on Solyndra could have hired 2 million teachers. Compare that to 62 billion to hire 100,000.

8. Recapitalized Banks: In the midst of financial crisis, approved controversial Treasury Department plan to lure private capital into the country’s largest banks via “stress tests” of their balance sheets and a public-private fund to buy their “toxic” assets. Got banks back on their feet at essentially zero cost to the government.

You already mentioned Wall Street bailouts above, not that it matters, this list is quantity not quality.

9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Ended 1990s-era restriction and formalized new policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for the first time.

Yes because if there's one thing a troop needs out in the middle of a desert hell-hole surrounded by angry armed Islamic fundamentalists, it's to know who all the homosexuals are. Well at least Commander-in-Chief can secure the gay/lesbian vote, thats what counts.

10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: In March 2011, joined a coalition of European and Arab governments in military action, including air power and naval blockade, against Gaddafi regime to defend Libyan civilians and support rebel troops. Gaddafi’s forty-two-year rule ended when the dictator was overthrown and killed by rebels on October 20, 2011. No American lives were lost.

11. Told Mubarak to Go: On February 1, 2011, publicly called on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to accept reform or step down, thus weakening the dictator’s position and putting America on the right side of the Arab Spring. Mubarak ended thirty-year rule when overthrown on February 11.

12. Reversed Bush Torture Policies: Two days after taking office, nullified Bush-era rulings that had allowed detainees in U.S. custody to undergo certain “enhanced” interrogation techniques considered inhumane under the Geneva Conventions. Also released the secret Bush legal rulings supporting the use of these techniques.

13. Improved America’s Image Abroad: With new policies, diplomacy, and rhetoric, reversed a sharp decline in world opinion toward the U.S. (and the corresponding loss of “soft power”) during the Bush years. From 2008 to 2011, favorable opinion toward the United States rose in ten of fifteen countries surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, with an average increase of 26 percent.

Better update this list, since the Libyan embassy attack has revealed exposed this is as the foreign policy disaster that it is. Did somebody tell the Ambassador about the new torture policies while he was being sodomized and killed? Way to improve our image, now they are burning effigies of Obama. Racists!

(more below ...)

[Order66]

][/b]

14. Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant Spending: As part of the 2010 health care reform bill, signed measure ending the wasteful decades-old practice of subsidizing banks to provide college loans. Starting July 2010 all students began getting their federal student loans directly from the federal government. Treasury will save $67 billion over ten years, $36 billion of which will go to expanding Pell Grants to lower-income students.

15. Created Race to the Top: With funds from stimulus, started $4.35 billion program of competitive grants to encourage and reward states for education reform.

Obama sounded like a fool in the debate when he suggested access to student loans as a solution to unemployment. The occupiers all had useless college degrees, they were angry because they couldn't find jobs.

16. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards: Released new fuel efficiency standards in 2011 that will nearly double the fuel economy for cars and trucks by 2025.

Good, maybe we can recoup losses on the Chevy Volt.

17. Coordinated International Response to Financial Crisis: To keep world economy out of recession in 2009 and 2010, helped secure from G-20 nations more than $500 billion for the IMF to provide lines of credit and other support to emerging market countries, which kept them liquid and avoided crises with their currencies.

Meanwhile back in the US, our own credit was downgraded because the budget talks collapsed due to a political stunt by Obama.

18. Passed Mini Stimuli: To help families hurt by the recession and spur the economy as stimulus spending declined, signed series of measures (July 22, 2010; December 17, 2010; December 23, 2011) to extend unemployment insurance and cut payroll taxes.

Now unemployment is still massive and more people are on food stamps then ever. BTW they are called the "Bush tax cuts" when Democrats oppose them.

19. Began Asia “Pivot”: In 2011, reoriented American military and diplomatic priorities and focus from the Middle East and Europe to the Asian-Pacific region. Executed multipronged strategy of positively engaging China while reasserting U.S. leadership in the region by increasing American military presence and crafting new commercial, diplomatic, and military alliances with neighboring countries made uncomfortable by recent Chinese behavior.

If we want to exert power over China, the first thing we should do is quit borrowing money from them to pay for Obama's massive spending bills.

20. Increased Support for Veterans: With so many soldiers coming home from Iraq and Iran with serious physical and mental health problems, yet facing long waits for services, increased 2010 Department of Veterans Affairs budget by 16 percent and 2011 budget by 10 percent. Also signed new GI bill offering $78 billion in tuition assistance over a decade, and provided multiple tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans.

I'm glad he's hiring veterans, it's too bad he has fired infinitely more to support his agenda of a "leaner, meaner" military, leaving us defenseless against all the new enemies created by his foreign policy.

21. Tightened Sanctions on Iran: In effort to deter Iran’s nuclear program, signed Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act (2010) to punish firms and individuals who aid Iran’s petroleum sector. In late 2011 and early 2012, coordinated with other major Western powers to impose sanctions aimed at Iran’s banks and with Japan, South Korea, and China to shift their oil purchases away from Iran.

Yes he's very tough on Iran, that's why he rolls out the red carpet for Achmadenijad so we can hear what he has to say publically about extermination of the Jews while snubbing Netanyahu. I wonder if Obama will ever invite the leader of the KKK to the White House to opine on his thoughts about extermination of the negroes.

22. Created Conditions to Begin Closing Dirtiest Power Plants: New EPA restrictions on mercury and toxic pollution, issued in December 2011, likely to lead to the closing of between sixty-eight and 231 of the nation’s oldest and dirtiest coal-fired power plants. Estimated cost to utilities: at least $11 billion by 2016. Estimated health benefits: $59 billion to $140 billion. Will also significantly reduce carbon emissions and, with other regulations, comprises what’s been called Obama’s “stealth climate policy.”

I call it "raise gas price" policy.

23. Passed Credit Card Reforms: Signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act (2009), which prohibits credit card companies from raising rates without advance notification, mandates a grace period on interest rate increases, and strictly limits overdraft and other fees.

Yes the Durbin Amendment worked out great, it ended up with Bank of America raising credit card fees to cover the cost of the new mandates, upon which Durbin called for a boycott of the Bank of America for trying to cover costs of measures that he enacted.

Sorry I don't have time to address the rest of the list, but you get my point, I think this is an enumerated list of failures skewed to sound like success.

[Merc14]

Obama sounded like a fool in the debate when he suggested access to student loans as a solution to unemployment. The occupiers all had useless college degrees, they were angry because they couldn't find jobs.

Good, maybe we can recoup losses on the Chevy Volt.

Meanwhile back in the US, our own credit was downgraded because the budget talks collapsed due to a political stunt by Obama.

Now unemployment is still massive and more people are on food stamps then ever. BTW they are called the "Bush tax cuts" when Democrats oppose them.

If we want to exert power over China, the first thing we should do is quit borrowing money from them to pay for Obama's massive spending bills.

I'm glad he's hiring veterans, it's too bad he has fired infinitely more to support his agenda of a "leaner, meaner" military, leaving us defenseless against all the new enemies created by his foreign policy.

Yes he's very tough on Iran, that's why he rolls out the red carpet for Achmadenijad so we can hear what he has to say publically about extermination of the Jews while snubbing Netanyahu. I wonder if Obama will ever invite the leader of the KKK to the White House to opine on his thoughts about extermination of the negroes.

I call it "raise gas price" policy.

Yes the Durbin Amendment worked out great, it ended up with Bank of America raising credit card fees to cover the cost of the new mandates, upon which Durbin called for a boycott of the Bank of America for trying to cover costs of measures that he enacted.

Sorry I don't have time to address the rest of the list, but you get my point, I think this is an enumerated list of failures skewed to sound like success.

Freakin' well done! What a tear-down! Great job. Makes me feel lazy because I dumped a two liner on this drivel. I may cut and paste for a tear-down on another site is you don't mind, all credit will be given of course. This list of "accomplishments" is also why Obama got creamed in the debate. How do you defend the indefensible?

Edited October 8, 2012 by Merc14

[Gamrat]

HAHAHA Some moron said, "We have a country to save"... where was that thinking when Bush was destroying this country??? And Americans are supposed to believe that voting for Romney (who is doubling down on the trickle down crap) is going to save it??? Wow... it's really pathetic how fast people forget that 4 years ago our county was in the shitter! And even more pathetic that people thing that returning our country to the bull**** that almost destroyed it will save it??? Yeah your argument is crap and so is your "savior". Romney has one thing on his mind and it's NOT saving this country! Oh but please tell me how HORRIBLE these last four years have been... PLEASE! HAhaha... you are a fool if you vote for a rich man who only watches out for his rich friends. Unless you are one of his rich friends you have NO right voting for him!

[Hawken]

HAHAHA Some moron said, "We have a country to save"... where was that thinking when Bush was destroying this country??? And Americans are supposed to believe that voting for Romney (who is doubling down on the trickle down crap) is going to save it??? Wow... it's really pathetic how fast people forget that 4 years ago our county was in the shitter! And even more pathetic that people thing that returning our country to the bull**** that almost destroyed it will save it??? Yeah your argument is crap and so is your "savior". Romney has one thing on his mind and it's NOT saving this country! Oh but please tell me how HORRIBLE these last four years have been... PLEASE! HAhaha... you are a fool if you vote for a rich man who only watches out for his rich friends. Unless you are one of his rich friends you have NO right voting for him!

I can remember the tail end of Bush's presidency that gas prices soared to 4.35 a gallon (at least in my area)

and the stock markets were taking a nose dive. Lost a lot of money in my retirement. It would seem he was

setting up a bad economy for the next president.

[Dredimus]

1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems.

2. Passed the Stimulus: Signed $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009 to spur economic growth amid greatest recession since the Great Depression. Weeks after stimulus went into effect, unemployment claims began to subside. Twelve months later, the private sector began producing more jobs than it was losing, and it has continued to do so for twenty-three straight months, creating a total of nearly 3.7 million new private-sector jobs.

3. Passed Wall Street Reform: Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) to re-regulate the financial sector after its practices caused the Great Recession. The new law tightens capital requirements on large banks and other financial institutions, requires derivatives to be sold on clearinghouses and exchanges, mandates that large banks provide “living wills” to avoid chaotic bankruptcies, limits their ability to trade with customers’ money for their own profit, and creates the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (now headed by Richard Cordray) to crack down on abusive lending products and companies.

4. Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.

5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: From a peak of 101,000 troops in June 2011, U.S. forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 slated to leave by the end of summer 2012. According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the combat mission there will be over by next year.

6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: In 2011, ordered special forces raid of secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in which the terrorist leader was killed and a trove of al-Qaeda documents was discovered.

7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: In 2009, injected $62 billion in federal money (on top of $13.4 billion in loans from the Bush administration) into ailing GM and Chrysler in return for equity stakes and agreements for massive restructuring. Since bottoming out in 2009, the auto industry has added more than 100,000 jobs. In 2011, the Big Three automakers all gained market share for the first time in two decades. The government expects to lose $16 billion of its investment, less if the price of the GM stock it still owns increases.

8. Recapitalized Banks: In the midst of financial crisis, approved controversial Treasury Department plan to lure private capital into the country’s largest banks via “stress tests” of their balance sheets and a public-private fund to buy their “toxic” assets. Got banks back on their feet at essentially zero cost to the government.

9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Ended 1990s-era restriction and formalized new policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for the first time.

10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: In March 2011, joined a coalition of European and Arab governments in military action, including air power and naval blockade, against Gaddafi regime to defend Libyan civilians and support rebel troops. Gaddafi’s forty-two-year rule ended when the dictator was overthrown and killed by rebels on October 20, 2011. No American lives were lost.

11. Told Mubarak to Go: On February 1, 2011, publicly called on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to accept reform or step down, thus weakening the dictator’s position and putting America on the right side of the Arab Spring. Mubarak ended thirty-year rule when overthrown on February 11.

Im just going to touch on the first eleven because I don’t have the time to sit here and laugh as I pour through this list… the only other two im going to even comment on besides these right now, are the shuttle program (thanks for setting us back a few more years Mr. President) and the F-22 Raptor… No, it has never actively engaged and fired upon a target… however… the Raptor has been used on the Iranian border and on Obama’s own protection detail while he was in NYC. I may come back to this after work today and go through all 50… but most of it seems to me that either he is taking credit for something he didn’t directly do, or is openly admitting to doing things that are aiding in taking this country to the ground. Just My Opinion…

1. Passed Health Care Reform: The CBO (Congressional Budget Office) states that the initial cost for “Obamacare” will be somewhere around $1.76 Trillion, compared to Obama’s stated claim of $940 Billion… either way, that’s a very large sum of money and it has to come from somewhere… and that’s just the first ten years, every year after 2021 its estimated to cost $250Billion a year.

“Not only have aggregate costs risen, but projected premiums for families have also gone up. Initially, health reforms were projected to save families over $2,500, but more recent studies by the CBO estimate such premiums costing more than $1,500 above what they otherwise would have.”

This will also delay the economic recovery for the same reasons listed above… oh… and you can call it a Tax or a Penalty, whatever you want… either way, the government has no right to tax or penalize me for not purchasing a product.

2. Passed the Stimulus: People seem to forget that this $787 Billion Dollars didn’t just materialize… So let’s see what the TAX PAYER MONEY went to. Let’s see… it didn’t create sustainable jobs… unemployment stayed above 8%... Shoveled millions into companies like Solyndra… who amazingly killed out a few months later…

3. Passed Wall Street Reform: I won’t argue with this. Still waiting on the true impact.

4. Ended the War in Iraq: This was done by the U.S. – Iraq Status of Forces Agreement… signed December 14, 2008 By G.W. Bush… It stated that all forces must withdraw from Major Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009 and then from Iraq as a whole by 12 31 2011

5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: *clap clap clap* Oh Wait… Obama signed the Long Term Partnership with Karzai that will keep the US in Afghanistan for atleast another 10 years… it was signed in Kabul on May 2^nd, 2012. The figure (when last talked about with the media) was at 25k troops commanded by a 3 star general. And I like how this list leaves out Libya, Yemen, Pakistan and Somolia… you know… for the bombs / drone strikes Obama has had going on there….

6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: No… Navy Seal Team 6 did that…

7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: Again, This is American Tax Dollars, not money that just comes from the land of make believe. How much of Chryslers parts/electronics are made overseas?

8. Recapitalized Banks: This is not the government’s job.

9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Great….

10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: Might wanna check back in on that situation in Libya…. And if you believe the media… Obama had nothing to do with this… the rebels did it.

11. Told Mubarak to Go: Let’s not forget that Biden/Obama sang the praises of Mubarak in January…and showed their full support… It even went as far with Biden: “I would not refer to him as a dictator”. Only to do a total flip flop, even after several pleas came out of Israel… Don’t Forget who took over in Egypt… that will be vital in the coming years

[Dredimus]

Dang! I should have looked up before digging through the first 11 and posting... Well Done Vein!

[ninjadude]

Also if you look you'll see that the Bain Capital business model is now being used by hundreds of top level corporations... because it brings in profits. I don't see how Romney can be pinned down as a traitor if tens of thousands of other top level businessmen are doing the same every day in every major city in the US.

so now destroying the middle class is ok because the plutocrats are making money hand over fist?!!

[Merc14]

Im just going to touch on the first eleven because I don’t have the time to sit here and laugh as I pour through this list… the only other two im going to even comment on besides these right now, are the shuttle program (thanks for setting us back a few more years Mr. President) and the F-22 Raptor… No, it has never actively engaged and fired upon a target… however… the Raptor has been used on the Iranian border and on Obama’s own protection detail while he was in NYC. I may come back to this after work today and go through all 50… but most of it seems to me that either he is taking credit for something he didn’t directly do, or is openly admitting to doing things that are aiding in taking this country to the ground. Just My Opinion…

1. Passed Health Care Reform: The CBO (Congressional Budget Office) states that the initial cost for “Obamacare” will be somewhere around $1.76 Trillion, compared to Obama’s stated claim of $940 Billion… either way, that’s a very large sum of money and it has to come from somewhere… and that’s just the first ten years, every year after 2021 its estimated to cost $250Billion a year.

“Not only have aggregate costs risen, but projected premiums for families have also gone up. Initially, health reforms were projected to save families over $2,500, but more recent studies by the CBO estimate such premiums costing more than $1,500 above what they otherwise would have.”

This will also delay the economic recovery for the same reasons listed above… oh… and you can call it a Tax or a Penalty, whatever you want… either way, the government has no right to tax or penalize me for not purchasing a product.

2. Passed the Stimulus: People seem to forget that this $787 Billion Dollars didn’t just materialize… So let’s see what the TAX PAYER MONEY went to. Let’s see… it didn’t create sustainable jobs… unemployment stayed above 8%... Shoveled millions into companies like Solyndra… who amazingly killed out a few months later…

3. Passed Wall Street Reform: I won’t argue with this. Still waiting on the true impact.

4. Ended the War in Iraq: This was done by the U.S. – Iraq Status of Forces Agreement… signed December 14, 2008 By G.W. Bush… It stated that all forces must withdraw from Major Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009 and then from Iraq as a whole by 12 31 2011

5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: *clap clap clap* Oh Wait… Obama signed the Long Term Partnership with Karzai that will keep the US in Afghanistan for atleast another 10 years… it was signed in Kabul on May 2^nd, 2012. The figure (when last talked about with the media) was at 25k troops commanded by a 3 star general. And I like how this list leaves out Libya, Yemen, Pakistan and Somolia… you know… for the bombs / drone strikes Obama has had going on there….

6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: No… Navy Seal Team 6 did that…

7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: Again, This is American Tax Dollars, not money that just comes from the land of make believe. How much of Chryslers parts/electronics are made overseas?

8. Recapitalized Banks: This is not the government’s job.

9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Great….

10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: Might wanna check back in on that situation in Libya…. And if you believe the media… Obama had nothing to do with this… the rebels did it.

11. Told Mubarak to Go: Let’s not forget that Biden/Obama sang the praises of Mubarak in January…and showed their full support… It even went as far with Biden: “I would not refer to him as a dictator”. Only to do a total flip flop, even after several pleas came out of Israel… Don’t Forget who took over in Egypt… that will be vital in the coming years

Also well done. You guys have it mailed. Thanks, Romney hammered him today on Foreign Policy..

[Merc14]

HAHAHA Some moron said, "We have a country to save"... where was that thinking when Bush was destroying this country??? And Americans are supposed to believe that voting for Romney (who is doubling down on the trickle down crap) is going to save it??? Wow... it's really pathetic how fast people forget that 4 years ago our county was in the shitter! And even more pathetic that people thing that returning our country to the bull**** that almost destroyed it will save it??? Yeah your argument is crap and so is your "savior". Romney has one thing on his mind and it's NOT saving this country! Oh but please tell me how HORRIBLE these last four years have been... PLEASE! HAhaha... you are a fool if you vote for a rich man who only watches out for his rich friends. Unless you are one of his rich friends you have NO right voting for him!

Get off your Mom's computer before she grounds you.

[Vet74]

HAHAHA Some moron said, "We have a country to save"... where was that thinking when Bush was destroying this country??? And Americans are supposed to believe that voting for Romney (who is doubling down on the trickle down crap) is going to save it??? Wow... it's really pathetic how fast people forget that 4 years ago our county was in the shitter! And even more pathetic that people thing that returning our country to the bull**** that almost destroyed it will save it??? Yeah your argument is crap and so is your "savior". Romney has one thing on his mind and it's NOT saving this country! Oh but please tell me how HORRIBLE these last four years have been... PLEASE! HAhaha... you are a fool if you vote for a rich man who only watches out for his rich friends. Unless you are one of his rich friends you have NO right voting for him!

Sounds like someone is in panic mode. Afraid you will lose your food stamps if Romney is elected?

[Ashotep]

If Romney is elected we all lose. Something about that man is creepy and seems unreal to me.

I don't know see how people expect Obama to repair this economy in 4 years that Bush had 8 years to destroy.

[Merc14]

If Romney is elected we all lose. Something about that man is creepy and seems unreal to me.

I don't know see how people expect Obama to repair this economy in 4 years that Bush had 8 years to destroy.

The economy was pretty good for most of Bush's 8 years, even after the 911 attack. It blew up after the housing bubble burst, something Bush was warning about but was blocked from fixing by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who ran Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and a democrat legislature. Bushs's biggest sin is his increasing the defiicit by $4T, something Obama called unpatriotic,until he ran up $6T in 3.5 years.

As far as expecting Obama to fix everything in 4 years I would suggest no one expected that. What they expected was at least some improvement, of any kind but instead, after he got everything he asked for, the unemployment rate went up and stayed there for 3 years and the economy flatlined and staye dthere. He saddled us with trillions more in debt and his solution is to add even more to that debt. He is a failure and voting for him again makes absolutely no sense when his only plan is to do more of the same.

[supervike]

As far as expecting Obama to fix everything in 4 years I would suggest no one expected that. What they expected was at least some improvement,

The Stock Market has been at record highs again. Is that not 'some improvement'?

New Car Sales rose sharply, as has houses.

Retailers are planning a big boost this holiday season.

All signs of real improvement. Why are these being ignored?

Edited October 8, 2012 by supervike

[Merc14]

The Stock Market has been at record highs again. Is that not 'some improvement'?

New Car Sales rose sharply, as has houses.

Retailers are planning a big boost this holiday season.

All signs of real improvement. Why are these being ignored?

Dig into those numbers a little deeper and you'll not feel so good about what they are saying. Kind of the same thing as the unemployment numbers improving, if you dig a little you'll see it is phony. It is complicated but you need to do the study to understand. Our credit rating getting downgraded again says a lot more about the health of the US economy than a spike in car sales (fed buying) or housing increases (foreclosed homes). Or ignore me and pretend the economy really is improving.

[Hawken]

The Stock Market has been at record highs again. Is that not 'some improvement'?

New Car Sales rose sharply, as has houses.

Retailers are planning a big boost this holiday season.

All signs of real improvement. Why are these being ignored?

True. After the Bush Administration gas prices went under the 4.00 mark and the stock markets did rebound.

My 401(k) started growing again.

[tapirmusic]

1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems.

2. Passed the Stimulus: Signed $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009 to spur economic growth amid greatest recession since the Great Depression. Weeks after stimulus went into effect, unemployment claims began to subside. Twelve months later, the private sector began producing more jobs than it was losing, and it has continued to do so for twenty-three straight months, creating a total of nearly 3.7 million new private-sector jobs.

3. Passed Wall Street Reform: Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) to re-regulate the financial sector after its practices caused the Great Recession. The new law tightens capital requirements on large banks and other financial institutions, requires derivatives to be sold on clearinghouses and exchanges, mandates that large banks provide “living wills” to avoid chaotic bankruptcies, limits their ability to trade with customers’ money for their own profit, and creates the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (now headed by Richard Cordray) to crack down on abusive lending products and companies.

4. Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.

5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: From a peak of 101,000 troops in June 2011, U.S. forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 slated to leave by the end of summer 2012. According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the combat mission there will be over by next year.

6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: In 2011, ordered special forces raid of secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in which the terrorist leader was killed and a trove of al-Qaeda documents was discovered.

7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: In 2009, injected $62 billion in federal money (on top of $13.4 billion in loans from the Bush administration) into ailing GM and Chrysler in return for equity stakes and agreements for massive restructuring. Since bottoming out in 2009, the auto industry has added more than 100,000 jobs. In 2011, the Big Three automakers all gained market share for the first time in two decades. The government expects to lose $16 billion of its investment, less if the price of the GM stock it still owns increases.

8. Recapitalized Banks: In the midst of financial crisis, approved controversial Treasury Department plan to lure private capital into the country’s largest banks via “stress tests” of their balance sheets and a public-private fund to buy their “toxic” assets. Got banks back on their feet at essentially zero cost to the government.

9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Ended 1990s-era restriction and formalized new policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for the first time.

10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: In March 2011, joined a coalition of European and Arab governments in military action, including air power and naval blockade, against Gaddafi regime to defend Libyan civilians and support rebel troops. Gaddafi’s forty-two-year rule ended when the dictator was overthrown and killed by rebels on October 20, 2011. No American lives were lost.

11. Told Mubarak to Go: On February 1, 2011, publicly called on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to accept reform or step down, thus weakening the dictator’s position and putting America on the right side of the Arab Spring. Mubarak ended thirty-year rule when overthrown on February 11.

12. Reversed Bush Torture Policies: Two days after taking office, nullified Bush-era rulings that had allowed detainees in U.S. custody to undergo certain “enhanced” interrogation techniques considered inhumane under the Geneva Conventions. Also released the secret Bush legal rulings supporting the use of these techniques.

13. Improved America’s Image Abroad: With new policies, diplomacy, and rhetoric, reversed a sharp decline in world opinion toward the U.S. (and the corresponding loss of “soft power”) during the Bush years. From 2008 to 2011, favorable opinion toward the United States rose in ten of fifteen countries surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, with an average increase of 26 percent.

14. Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant Spending: As part of the 2010 health care reform bill, signed measure ending the wasteful decades-old practice of subsidizing banks to provide college loans. Starting July 2010 all students began getting their federal student loans directly from the federal government. Treasury will save $67 billion over ten years, $36 billion of which will go to expanding Pell Grants to lower-income students.

15. Created Race to the Top: With funds from stimulus, started $4.35 billion program of competitive grants to encourage and reward states for education reform.

16. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards: Released new fuel efficiency standards in 2011 that will nearly double the fuel economy for cars and trucks by 2025.

17. Coordinated International Response to Financial Crisis: To keep world economy out of recession in 2009 and 2010, helped secure from G-20 nations more than $500 billion for the IMF to provide lines of credit and other support to emerging market countries, which kept them liquid and avoided crises with their currencies.

18. Passed Mini Stimuli: To help families hurt by the recession and spur the economy as stimulus spending declined, signed series of measures (July 22, 2010; December 17, 2010; December 23, 2011) to extend unemployment insurance and cut payroll taxes.

19. Began Asia “Pivot”: In 2011, reoriented American military and diplomatic priorities and focus from the Middle East and Europe to the Asian-Pacific region. Executed multipronged strategy of positively engaging China while reasserting U.S. leadership in the region by increasing American military presence and crafting new commercial, diplomatic, and military alliances with neighboring countries made uncomfortable by recent Chinese behavior.

20. Increased Support for Veterans: With so many soldiers coming home from Iraq and Iran with serious physical and mental health problems, yet facing long waits for services, increased 2010 Department of Veterans Affairs budget by 16 percent and 2011 budget by 10 percent. Also signed new GI bill offering $78 billion in tuition assistance over a decade, and provided multiple tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans.

21. Tightened Sanctions on Iran: In effort to deter Iran’s nuclear program, signed Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act (2010) to punish firms and individuals who aid Iran’s petroleum sector. In late 2011 and early 2012, coordinated with other major Western powers to impose sanctions aimed at Iran’s banks and with Japan, South Korea, and China to shift their oil purchases away from Iran.

22. Created Conditions to Begin Closing Dirtiest Power Plants: New EPA restrictions on mercury and toxic pollution, issued in December 2011, likely to lead to the closing of between sixty-eight and 231 of the nation’s oldest and dirtiest coal-fired power plants. Estimated cost to utilities: at least $11 billion by 2016. Estimated health benefits: $59 billion to $140 billion. Will also significantly reduce carbon emissions and, with other regulations, comprises what’s been called Obama’s “stealth climate policy.”

23. Passed Credit Card Reforms: Signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act (2009), which prohibits credit card companies from raising rates without advance notification, mandates a grace period on interest rate increases, and strictly limits overdraft and other fees.

24. Eliminated Catch-22 in Pay Equality Laws: Signed Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act in 2009, giving women who are paid less than men for the same work the right to sue their employers after they find out about the discrimination, even if that discrimination happened years ago. Under previous law, as interpreted by the Supreme Court in Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., the statute of limitations on such suits ran out 180 days after the alleged discrimination occurred, even if the victims never knew about it.

25. Protected Two Liberal Seats on the U.S. Supreme Court: Nominated and obtained confirmation for Sonia Sotomayor, the first Hispanic and third woman to serve, in 2009; and Elena Kagan, the fourth woman to serve, in 2010. They replaced David Souter and John Paul Stevens, respectively.

26. Improved Food Safety System: In 2011, signed FDA Food Safety Modernization Act, which boosts the Food and Drug Administration’s budget by $1.4 billion and expands its regulatory responsibilities to include increasing number of food inspections, issuing direct food recalls, and reviewing the current food safety practices of countries importing products into America.

27. Achieved New START Treaty: Signed with Russia (2010) and won ratification in Congress (2011) of treaty that limits each country to 1,550 strategic warheads (down from 2,200) and 700 launchers (down from more than 1,400), and reestablished and strengthened a monitoring and transparency program that had lapsed in 2009, through which each country can monitor the other.

28. Expanded National Service: Signed Serve America Act in 2009, which authorized a tripling of the size of AmeriCorps. Program grew 13 percent to 85,000 members across the country by 2012, when new House GOP majority refused to appropriate more funds for further expansion.

29. Expanded Wilderness and Watershed Protection: Signed Omnibus Public Lands Management Act (2009), which designated more than 2 million acres as wilderness, created thousands of miles of recreational and historic trails, and protected more than 1,000 miles of rivers.

30. Gave the FDA Power to Regulate Tobacco: Signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (2009). Nine years in the making and long resisted by the tobacco industry, the law mandates that tobacco manufacturers disclose all ingredients, obtain FDA approval for new tobacco products, and expand the size and prominence of cigarette warning labels, and bans the sale of misleadingly labeled “light” cigarette brands and tobacco sponsorship of entertainment events.

31. Pushed Federal Agencies to Be Green Leaders: Issued executive order in 2009 requiring all federal agencies to make plans to soften their environmental impacts by 2020. Goals include 30 percent reduction in fleet gasoline use, 26 percent boost in water efficiency, and sustainability requirements for 95 percent of all federal contracts. Because federal government is the country’s single biggest purchaser of goods and services, likely to have ripple effects throughout the economy for years to come.

32. Passed Fair Sentencing Act: Signed 2010 legislation that reduces sentencing disparity between crack versus powder cocaine possessionfrom100 to1 to 18 to1.

33. Trimmed and Reoriented Missile Defense: Cut the Reagan-era “Star Wars” missile defense budget, saving $1.4 billion in 2010, and canceled plans to station antiballistic missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic in favor of sea-based defense plan focused on Iran and North Korea.

34. Began Post-Post-9/11 Military Builddown: After winning agreement from congressional Republicans and Democrats in summer 2011 budget deal to reduce projected defense spending by $450 billion, proposed new DoD budget this year with cuts of that size and a new national defense strategy that would shrink ground forces from 570,000 to 490,000 over the next ten years while increasing programs in intelligence gathering and cyberwarfare.

35. Let Space Shuttle Die and Killed Planned Moon Mission: Allowed the expensive ($1 billion per launch), badly designed, dangerous shuttle program to make its final launch on July 8, 2011. Cut off funding for even more bloated and problem-plagued Bush-era Constellation program to build moon base in favor of support for private-sector low-earth orbit ventures, research on new rocket technologies for long-distance manned flight missions, and unmanned space exploration, including the largest interplanetary rover ever launched, which will investigate Mars’s potential to support life.

36. Invested Heavily in Renewable Technology: As part of the 2009 stimulus, invested $90 billion, more than any previous administration, in research on smart grids, energy efficiency, electric cars, renewable electricity generation, cleaner coal, and biofuels.

37. Crafting Next-Generation School Tests: Devoted $330 million in stimulus money to pay two consortia of states and universities to create competing versions of new K-12 student performance tests based on latest psychometric research. New tests could transform the learning environment in vast majority of public school classrooms beginning in 2014.

38. Cracked Down on Bad For-Profit Colleges: In effort to fight predatory practices of some for-profit colleges, Department of Education issued “gainful employment” regulations in 2011 cutting off commercially focused schools from federal student aid funding if more than 35 percent of former students aren’t paying off their loans and/or if the average former student spends more than 12 percent of his or her total earnings servicing student loans.

39. Improved School Nutrition: In coordination with Michelle Obama, signed Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act in 2010 mandating $4.5 billion spending boost and higher nutritional and health standards for school lunches. New rules based on the law, released in January, double the amount of fruits and vegetables and require only whole grains in food served to students.

40. Expanded Hate Crimes Protections: Signed Hate Crimes Prevention Act (2009), which expands existing hate crime protections to include crimes based on a victim’s sexual orientation, gender, or disability, in addition to race, color, religion, or national origin.

41. Avoided Scandal: As of November 2011, served longer than any president in decades without a scandal, as measured by the appearance of the word “scandal” (or lack thereof) on the front page of the Washington Post.

42. Brokered Agreement for Speedy Compensation to Victims of Gulf Oil Spill: Though lacking statutory power to compel British Petroleum to act, used moral authority of his office to convince oil company to agree in 2010 to a $20 billion fund to compensate victims of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico; $6.5 billion already paid out without lawsuits. By comparison, it took nearly two decades for plaintiffs in the Exxon Valdez Alaska oil spill case to receive $1.3 billion.

43. Created Recovery.gov: Web site run by independent board of inspectors general looking for fraud and abuse in stimulus spending, provides public with detailed information on every contract funded by $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Thanks partly to this transparency, board has uncovered very little fraud, and Web site has become national model: “The stimulus has done more to promote transparency at almost all levels of government than any piece of legislation in recent memory,” reports Governing magazine.

44. Pushed Broadband Coverage: Proposed and obtained in 2011 Federal Communications Commission approval for a shift of $8 billion in subsidies away from landlines and toward broadband Internet for lower-income rural families.

45. Expanded Health Coverage for Children: Signed 2009 Children’s Health Insurance Authorization Act, which allows the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) to cover health care for 4 million more children, paid for by a tax increase on tobacco products.

46. Recognized the Dangers of Carbon Dioxide: In 2009, EPA declared carbon dioxide a pollutant, allowing the agency to regulate its production.

47. Expanded Stem Cell Research: In 2009, eliminated the Bush-era restrictions on embryonic stem cell research, which shows promise in treating spinal injuries, among many other areas.

48. Provided Payment to Wronged Minority Farmers: In 2009, signed Claims Resolution Act, which provided $4.6 billion in funding for a legal settlement with black and Native American farmers who the government cheated out of loans and natural resource royalties in years past.

49. Helped South Sudan Declare Independence: Helped South Sudan Declare Independence: Appointed two envoys to Sudan and personally attended a special UN meeting on the area. Through U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Ambassador Susan Rice, helped negotiate a peaceful split in 2011.

50. Killed the F-22: In 2009, ended further purchases of Lockheed Martin single-seat, twin-engine, fighter aircraft, which cost $358 million apiece. Though the military had 187 built, the plane has never flown a single combat mission. Eliminating it saved $4 billion.

...and those were just off the top of your head, right?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

[Tiggs]

Conversation re: Bush, Fannie Mae and the Financial Crisis moved to here.