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Tiggs

Bush, Mae and the Financial Crisis

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Tiggs

Moderator's note - this thread is branched from the "Romney Committed a Felony" thread, here.

The economy was pretty good for most of Bush's 8 years, even after the 911 attack. It blew up after the housing bubble burst, something Bush was warning about but was blocked from fixing by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who ran Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and a democrat legislature.

Oh? Perhaps you'd like to walk us all through the mechanics of how the private asset book of a company caused the collapse of the international banking system?

Edited by Tiggs

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Merc14

Oh? Perhaps you'd like to walk us all through the mechanics of how the private asset book of a company caused the collapse of the international banking system?

You really don't know what Barney Frank and Chris Dodd have to due with "a private company"? Really? You have no idea about the government's involvement if fannie and freddie? Seriously? You need to do some study as well.

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Tiggs

You really don't know what Barney Frank and Chris Dodd have to due with "a private company"? Really? You have no idea about the government's involvement if fannie and freddie? Seriously? You need to do some study as well.

How about you actually answer the question?

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joc

How about you actually answer the question?

If he doesn't want to or can't, I would be happy to in great detail.

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Merc14

How about you actually answer the question?

No Tiggs, I am not going to waste hours arguing minutiae with you. The collapse of the housing bubble and its effect on the US economy is a widely known event as is the role of freddie and fannie in the collapse. Spending hours discussing it with you is too painful to contemplate and as usual is meant to misdirect the conversation.

Edited by Merc14

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Tiggs

No Tiggs, I am not going to waste hours arguing minutiae with you. The collapse of the housing bubble and its effect on the US economy is a widely known event as is the role of freddie and fannie in the collapse. Spending hours discussing it with you is too painful to contemplate and as usual is meant to misdirect the conversation.

If he doesn't want to or can't, I would be happy to in great detail.

Looks like he can't. Over to you, Joc.

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Merc14

If he doesn't want to or can't, I proving his obe happy to in great detail.

Feel free. He will lead you on one of the most stupid, strawman filled waste of time conversations you've ever had. Nothing is proved and nothing gained but you will have been misdirected off the original argument, which is his real objective. I usually tell him to start another thread and he always declines.

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Merc14

Looks like he can't. Over to you, Joc.

Yeah that's it tiggs. You win. Bye. :td:

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Tiggs

Yeah that's it tiggs. You win. Bye. :td:

If you're not willing to defend something you've claimed - then don't claim it. Simple.

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Merc14

If you're not willing to defend something you've claimed - then don't claim it. Simple.

What, exactly, are you asking me to defend?

Edited by Merc14

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Tiggs

Your claim that the GSE's were the cause of the financial collapse.

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Merc14

GSE's?

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Tiggs

GSE's?

Government Sponsored Enterprises. For the purposes of this conversation - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

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Merc14

Ar you serious? Youy want to debate on whetehr or not government backed mortgage debt had anything to do with the housing market collapse and trillions in toxic debt? You can't just look it up? It is a 4 year old story with books written on it. WHat is there to defend?

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Merc14

Here is a great summation in 4 minutes

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Merc14

Barney Frank denying there is a bubble in the housing market

[media=]

[/media] Edited by Merc14

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Tiggs

Ar you serious? Youy want to debate on whetehr or not government backed mortgage debt had anything to do with the housing market collapse and trillions in toxic debt? You can't just look it up? It is a 4 year old story with books written on it. WHat is there to defend?

I'm totally serious.

From the conclusions of the official Government inquiry:

We conclude that these two entities contributed to the crisis, but were not a primary cause. Importantly, GSE mortgage securities essentially maintained their value throughout the crisis and did not contribute to the significant financial firm losses that were central to the financial crisis.

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Merc14

I'm totally serious.

From the conclusions of the official Government inquiry:

We conclude that these two entities contributed to the crisis, but were not a primary cause. Importantly, GSE mortgage securities essentially maintained their value throughout the crisis and did not contribute to the significant financial firm losses that were central to the financial crisis.

You are cherry picking data.

A combination of excessive borrowing, risky investments, and lack of transparency put the financial system on a collision course with crisis."

The inquiry found that in the years leading up to the crisis, American households, and institutions, borrowed too much and saved too little.

"When the housing and mortgage markets cratered, the lack of transparency, the extraordinary debt loads, the short-term loans, and the risky assets all came home to roost. What resulted was panic," the report reads. "We had reaped what we had sown."

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Tiggs

Here is a great summation in 4 minutes

Which part of those video's exactly do you believe proves that the GSE's were the central cause of the financial crisis?.

Because all I'm seeing is clips of Congress discussing accounting reform bills for the GSE's that never made it out of committee.

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Tiggs

You are cherry picking data.

A combination of excessive borrowing, risky investments, and lack of transparency put the financial system on a collision course with crisis."

The inquiry found that in the years leading up to the crisis, American households, and institutions, borrowed too much and saved too little.

"When the housing and mortgage markets cratered, the lack of transparency, the extraordinary debt loads, the short-term loans, and the risky assets all came home to roost. What resulted was panic," the report reads. "We had reaped what we had sown."

And what part of that, exactly, do you think refers to the GSE's?

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Merc14

And what part of that, exactly, do you think refers to the GSE's?

Simple version: In the 90's it was decreed by congress that mortgages would be made available to people who were not qualified for those mortgages. The loans would be guaranteed by the federal government through Fannie and Freddie. Those loans became the seed of the massive housing bubble that grew through the next decade. Many saw the dangers with this and the GSE's became dangerously overleveraged and little or no oversight was given by the feds. See the videos above but hey, Uncle Sucker can just print money so who cares. Derivatives and other strange financial entities came into being and loans that would never be aid back were packaged with government protected debt and traded internationally. When the bubble finally burst it began the collapse of the US economy. There was other factors, of course, but the GSE backed mortgages which became the basis of the overinflated real estate market were a core factor.

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The Mule

Simple version: In the 90's it was decreed by congress that mortgages would be made available to people who were not qualified for those mortgages. The loans would be guaranteed by the federal government through Fannie and Freddie. Those loans became the seed of the massive housing bubble that grew through the next decade. Many saw the dangers with this and the GSE's became dangerously overleveraged and little or no oversight was given by the feds. See the videos above but hey, Uncle Sucker can just print money so who cares. Derivatives and other strange financial entities came into being and loans that would never be aid back were packaged with government protected debt and traded internationally. When the bubble finally burst it began the collapse of the US economy. There was other factors, of course, but the GSE backed mortgages which became the basis of the overinflated real estate market were a core factor.

You mean the GOP controlled House and Senate of 94-00?

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Merc14

You mean the GOP controlled House and Senate of 94-00?

Do your own study if you want to play.

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The Mule

I already know the answer. You just blamed the GOP. Nice playing.

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