Romney pulls ahead in Polls.

[Tiggs]

I think Biden doing well would get huge traction from the MSM.

Given that Biden could barely manage a draw debating against Sarah Palin - I wouldn't put any large bets on that.

[Merc14]

Given that Biden could barely manage a draw debating against Sarah Palin - I wouldn't put any large bets on that.

Well, I learned from my time in the air that you should never underestimate your foe. Regardless, it will play out as it will, but I'd like your input on the coverup unfolding re. Benghazi http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=235607

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Has anyone ever noticed that the only people clamoring for an end to the electoral college are liberals? There is a reason for that. The Electoral college is a necessity because it prevents the major poulation centers, Californioa and NY, from picking the President every 4 years. The electoral college allows each state to have a say who fills the executive. Questionmark wants a popular vote decision becasue he wants the liberal states to decide who is president and to hell with flyover country.

You said, gleefully as I took it, that Romeny could win 60% of the vote and still lose if he doesn't win those swing states. That is a testament to the power of the electoral college and knowing you are a devout liberal I assumed, rightfully it turns out, that you were against the electoral college.

Folks, always remember that liberalism is a form of tyranny. They try and limit speech through political correctness, they own the media and broadcst their propaganda from it 24/7 and they run the education system in which they indoctrinate your children in the liberal theology. They want to governevery aspect of your life which is why they are making a play to take over health care. Doing away with the electoral college would be one more step towards liberal totalitarianism.

oh is that the reason Republicans always cut education... thank you for clarifying for me.

Non liberal education equals good conservative base... lmao them liberals and their darned education. The nerve... lmao...

[Merc14]

oh is that the reason Republicans always cut education... thank you for clarifying for me.

Non liberal education equals good conservative base... lmao them liberals and their darned education. The nerve... lmao...

Please show me the last time anyone at the federal level cut education funding.

Liberals have done such a great job running education that we now have one of the most expensive cost per student K-12 programs on earth yet of 34 coutries we rate 14th in reading and 17th in science and 25th in math. Great job. Only a liberal ccould be proud of that record.

Try harder will ya.

[Tiggs]

Please show me the last time anyone at the federal level cut education funding.

That would be the $35.9 Billion cut coming this January, as part of last year's debt ceiling deal. As detailed here, page 39 onwards, which will result in 15,000 or so teachers losing their jobs.

[Jeremiah65]

The Fed needs to get out of Education and return it to the states. When I was a kid, it was state controlled. During my k-12 education, the Fed DoE was created but hadn't put it's death grip on things yet. I thankfully graduated High School with the State and County pretty much calling all the shots.

Now we have a revenue gobbling, bureaucratic monstrosity where mediocre is the plan and excellence is a lost idea.

The Fed involvement in education has been a complete failure. "No student left behind = No student gets ahead". School used to teach subjects. Now, they teach to the requirements to pass a stupid test. Critical thinking has been murdered. In the old days, you either passed or failed. You fail, you get a do over!...but now..."oh that hurts someone's self esteem"...can't have that...so "lets teach to the lowest achiever's level instead".

I don't care what anyone says about it. I went through 1 to 12 from Sept 1971 to May 1983. I know what our schools were like. They challenged the student to rise up and be their best.

I also have two grown children now and I know the difference between what they were taught/learned and what I was taught. Both of my kids have very high I.Q.'s but because the curriculum was dumbed down...they were never challenged to their limits....fact.

If you want to keep the level of students pitifully mediocre, please continue supporting the federal involvement in education. If you want education to return to the peak levels of decades ago when our students were the best and brightest in the world...get the Fed out.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Jeremiah65

[Merc14]

That would be the $35.9 Billion cut coming this January, as part of last year's debt ceiling deal. As detailed here, page 39 onwards, which will result in 15,000 or so teachers losing their jobs.

Lot's of draconian cuts in that thing and when it hits you can post that as a response but last I looked it is still 2012 so nice try but fail.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Merc14

[Tiggs]

Lot's of draconian cuts in that thing and when it hits you can post that as a response but last I looked it is still 2012 so nice try but fail.

If you need to create legislation to stop it from happening - then it's legislation that's already been passed.

[WoIverine]

Do any of you Obama or Romney supporters actually think the Vice president debate tomorrow will effect the polls?

I don't think they will but then I don't directly have a horse in this race so it's a big whatever to me. My guy isn't even invited on the same stage. Just curious if anyone thinks what Biden or Ryan has to say means anything.

I think Biden will probably win. If Ryan wants it, he will have to slam him with facts about his budget plan, he hasn't been too forthcoming yet about how things are supposed to get done if his plan is put in place. It will be interesting to see. Would've loved to have Rand Paul as a VP pick instead of Paul Ryan, but wasn't meant to be I guess.

[questionmark]

I think Biden will probably win. If Ryan wants it, he will have to slam him with facts about his budget plan, he hasn't been too forthcoming yet about how things are supposed to get done if his plan is put in place. It will be interesting to see. Would've loved to have Rand Paul as a VP pick instead of Paul Ryan, but wasn't meant to be I guess.

The problem with Ryan's budget plan is that it still has hole big enough to pass the 6th fleet through, which is the reason both he and Romney have been remarkably silent on the issue.

[WoIverine]

The Fed needs to get out of Education and return it to the states. When I was a kid, it was state controlled. During my k-12 education, the Fed DoE was created but hadn't put it's death grip on things yet. I thankfully graduated High School with the State and County pretty much calling all the shots.

Now we have a revenue gobbling, bureaucratic monstrosity where mediocre is the plan and excellence is a lost idea.

The Fed involvement in education has been a complete failure. "No student left behind = No student gets ahead". School used to teach subjects. Now, they teach to the requirements to pass a stupid test. Critical thinking has been murdered. In the old days, you either passed or failed. You fail, you get a do over!...but now..."oh that hurts someone's self esteem"...can't have that...so "lets teach to the lowest achiever's level instead".

I don't care what anyone says about it. I went through 1 to 12 from Sept 1971 to May 1983. I know what our schools were like. They challenged the student to rise up and be their best.

I also have two grown children now and I know the difference between what they were taught/learned and what I was taught. Both of my kids have very high I.Q.'s but because the curriculum was dumbed down...they were never challenged to their limits....fact.

If you want to keep the level of students pitifully mediocre, please continue supporting the federal involvement in education. If you want education to return to the peak levels of decades ago when our students were the best and brightest in the world...get the Fed out.

Universities should work to adopt and promote a more libertarian mindset. The middle ground between conservative and liberal would enable greater cooperation in young minds, maybe then the country wouldn't be so divided when said generation hits their 30's and 40's. It'd be nice to see a new era of cooperation on capital hill for a change instead of what we have now.

Edited October 11, 2012 by WoIverine

[WoIverine]

The problem with Ryan's budget plan is that it still has hole big enough to pass the 6th fleet through, which is the reason both he and Romney have been remarkably silent on the issue.

Yep, they're going to have to bring their facts and ideas to the next debate(s), otherwise things could become really interesting when the president steps up his game this next time around.

Edited October 11, 2012 by WoIverine

[ninjadude]

The Fed needs to get out of Education and return it to the states.

I've had to have this education with others before. What is it exactly that you think the US dept of Ed does? I'll wait.

[Jeremiah65]

The basic "idea" was not a terrible one. The original purpose was to oversee funding and assure a fair and equal education for everyone. What has happened is that policies have been created toward those goals that have clogged the arteries and tied the hands of educators.

The US DoE was officially created in 1979. Prior to that, the States had the Lions share of the control. It is not a mystery that as time progressed and more policies were created to "regulate and standardize" the quality has steadily fallen.

In my opinion, the old saying "if something is not broken, don't fix it" applies. Now some will argue that the system was broken and I will not agree. I got a fine education from a little backwoods country school. We had money for sports, band and class field trips. No one went hungry as there was also funding to pay for school lunches and breakfast for those that qualified. Ever since the Fed became involved, the money has slowly diminished. Now many schools require families to "pay" for the extracurricular activities. Why is that? The budget amounts are larger but the services provided are less. Something has gone horribly wrong ever since the Fed's power and involvement has grown each passing year.

I'm not going to argue with you. I know your M.O. You think Government is the answer to everything. Even when it means our children are graduating High School with bare minimum comprehension capacity and vanishing critical thinking skills.

I am old enough to be able to look back and actually see and know the difference. I have to grown children that are now in college. I was involved in their education. I know what they learned, when and how...and I can tell you this. I know the "way it used to be" is better than the system we have in place today and no amount of jumping up and down like your head is on fire is going to convince me that the Federal Involvement has been good in any way, shape or form. But feel free to rail and state your point...it will never convince me or other people capable of critical thinking and free thought.

and that is that.

[Gummug]

That is totally different than tell you how to live you lives or telling you what care to buy. I guess I will take the Repub route and say, if you want a nicer car, work harder and make more money. Many brands offer afordable cars. My brand of choice, Nissan, offers a couple good options I was considering. The Versa is only about 12,000 new and gets over 30 mpg. The Juke is under 20K and offers AWD while getting over 30 mpgs. If you want a new BMW start a business and make some money.

My brother and sister-in-law just bought a brand new Versa not too long ago (it may have been several years ago) and they seem to really like it. You're right, telling businesses what they can and can't do, via seemingly ever-expanding regulations (which are introduced by unelected bureaucrats btw) isn't the same as telling a private person what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, but by restricting businesses they are indirectly restricting personal choices, AND imo it's just a matter of time (and I think the time will be short if Obama is re-elected) before they get more into personal lives. Already they were trying to tell the church it had to provide birth control items. To an extent, this is just my opinion, I admit it, but looking at the trends, it sure seems to be pointing that way. Btw, I asked a business manager (who shall remain unnamed) if all the regulations were hindering his business, and he said, "yes", but he said he couldn't talk about it or he would be in trouble. So that is straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Gummug

[Merc14]

The basic "idea" was not a terrible one. The original purpose was to oversee funding and assure a fair and equal education for everyone. What has happened is that policies have been created toward those goals that have clogged the arteries and tied the hands of educators.

The US DoE was officially created in 1979. Prior to that, the States had the Lions share of the control. It is not a mystery that as time progressed and more policies were created to "regulate and standardize" the quality has steadily fallen.

In my opinion, the old saying "if something is not broken, don't fix it" applies. Now some will argue that the system was broken and I will not agree. I got a fine education from a little backwoods country school. We had money for sports, band and class field trips. No one went hungry as there was also funding to pay for school lunches and breakfast for those that qualified. Ever since the Fed became involved, the money has slowly diminished. Now many schools require families to "pay" for the extracurricular activities. Why is that?

Well said and spot on. We are most definitely not getting our money's worth from our education system.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Merc14

[+OverSword]

Well said and spot on. We are most definitely not getting our money's worth from our education system.

Yeah, America spends more on public education than they spend on the military. for that kind of money microsoft shouldn't have to hire software engineers from India.

[Gummug]

Great stuff!!

Thank you Merc. This is what I found:

We all know liberals are condescending. It's just who they are. They think they know how to run your life better than you. They went tocollege.

But rarely is this condescending philosophy so nakedly apparent than it is today as so many of them openly discuss why Muslims can't be treated like adults.

Americans must censor themselves, but only when it comes to certain groups. We can make fun of Christians. Not only can you make fun of Mormons, when you do we will praise you.

Broadway show defaming Mormons. Zero riots, zero calls for censorship, 14 Tony awards.

We can make fun of just about any one in the world. Personally, I like a good Pollack joke. And did you hear the one about the drunk Irishman who walked into a bar? Yeah, you know the punchline.

But certain groups, they say, do not qualify as fully capable human beings accountable for their own choices and responsible for their own actions.

Rather, your actions cause them to behave in certain ways.

Anyway, the full article, for anyone interested, is here:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/213583.php

Edited October 11, 2012 by Gummug

[Bama13]

THE SUPREME COURT MADE IT A CONSTITIONAL RIGHT!

The Supreme Court was given this power by the Constitution.

Federal law over rules state law.

Don't like that? Oh well, too bad...

So where in the Constitution does it say that the USSC has the power to change the Constitution? Or even interpet the Constitution?

[questionmark]

So where in the Constitution does it say that the USSC has the power to change the Constitution? Or even interpet the Constitution?

And, if it does not, what would be your purpose in your learned opinion?

[+joc]

So where in the Constitution does it say that the USSC has the power to change the Constitution? Or even interpet the Constitution?

Article III Section 2. The Constitution

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

Edited October 11, 2012 by joc

[ninjadude]

The basic "idea" was not a terrible one. The original purpose was to oversee funding and assure a fair and equal education for everyone. What has happened is that policies have been created toward those goals that have clogged the arteries and tied the hands of educators.

The US DoE was officially created in 1979. Prior to that, the States had the Lions share of the control. It is not a mystery that as time progressed and more policies were created to "regulate and standardize" the quality has steadily fallen.

But the US DoE does not have "control" or even must "control". This is a bogey-man that you've created in your head. The Dept of Ed administers loaning of money to college students, promotes education and promotes national education standards. These are good things. They are not wresting "control" whatever that means.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Thank you Merc. This is what I found:

We all know liberals are condescending. It's just who they are. They think they know how to run your life better than you. They went tocollege.

But rarely is this condescending philosophy so nakedly apparent than it is today as so many of them openly discuss why Muslims can't be treated like adults.

Americans must censor themselves, but only when it comes to certain groups. We can make fun of Christians. Not only can you make fun of Mormons, when you do we will praise you.

Broadway show defaming Mormons. Zero riots, zero calls for censorship, 14 Tony awards.

More and more I hear Conservatives call colleges and universities "Liberal breeding grounds." Apparently this means that Conservatives do not go to college, right? So, Conservatives are uneducated right? I do not know what the fear of education is...But actually from my understanding the number of Conservatives and Liberals with an undergraduate degree is pretty even, the difference comes in the graduate degree area. There are also tons of Conservative clubs on campus. Minnesota College Republicans is one on my campus. And lets not even get into how many Bible and Jesus clubs there are. We also have speakers on intelligent design and evolution deniers. Universities are not just a place where Liberals get together and joke about the ignorance of Repubs.

Not eveyone that goes to college is smarter or better and not ever degree is equal. Also, many people do not apply themselves or attempt to learn the information. What I have noticed is that college students are generally less ignorant about the world around them and this is because the way the education is structured.

Don't all all Liberals condecending because that is just not true. Many feel it is condecending because of the way we talk, we try to explain things. When we explain things, you think that we think you are stupid. We like to explain things so that you understanding them and give you facts and numbers. I mean how many times have I had to explain on the Constitution on this site? Conservatives preach the Constitution to support their view but the reality is many of them do not understand it or do not agree with it. But I explain what is says and means and I am the condecending one...

I would not totally agree with your assessment on The Book of Mormon. TBOM was created Matt Stone and Trey Parker. Trey Parker is not anti-Mormon, in fact he finds them interesting and respects them. He finds religion in general interesting. He did this more out of respect than out of hate. He does not hate Mormons, he likes them.

So where in the Constitution does it say that the USSC has the power to change the Constitution? Or even interpet the Constitution?

Why do you keep coming around and asking me questions? Answer some of mine first...

[Merc14]

More and more I hear Conservatives call colleges and universities "Liberal breeding grounds." Apparently this means that Conservatives do not go to college, right? So, Conservatives are uneducated right? I do not know what the fear of education is...But actually from my understanding the number of Conservatives and Liberals with an undergraduate degree is pretty even, the difference comes in the graduate degree area. There are also tons of Conservative clubs on campus. Minnesota College Republicans is one on my campus. And lets not even get into how many Bible and Jesus clubs there are. We also have speakers on intelligent design and evolution deniers. Universities are not just a place where Liberals get together and joke about the ignorance of Repubs.

My personal experience, living in a liberal city and attending college in the early 80's, was that I was unquestionably liberal. Liberalism was/is easy because it is based on emotions and requires zero thought and therefore appeals to the young and earnest. The problem was the country was falling apart in 1980, just as it is now, and we were a staunchly liberal country. Then I heard Reagan and he made so much practical sense that I looked into conservatism, the real conservatism not the drivel the left rails about with nazis and homophobia and all the resy that has nothing to do with conservatism, and it was an epiphany.

[CommunitarianKevin]

My personal experience, living in a liberal city and attending college in the early 80's, was that I was unquestionably liberal. Liberalism was/is easy because it is based on emotions and requires zero thought and therefore appeals to the young and earnest. The problem was the country was falling apart in 1980, just as it is now, and we were a staunchly liberal country. Then I heard Reagan and he made so much practical sense that I looked into conservatism, the real conservatism not the drivel the left rails about with nazis and homophobia and all the resy that has nothing to do with conservatism, and it was an epiphany.

Times have changed...

The bold part made me lol