[Merged] Proof of Heaven

[Habitat]

Mystical experience is only trivial to those that have not experienced it. To those that have, their previous life is what seems trivial.

[+joc]

Mystical experience is only trivial to those that have not experienced it. To those that have, their previous life is what seems trivial.

Being dead is not mystical.

[Shabd Mystic]

Would that be me?

Rev. George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue.

I don't buy that story for a minute. Because someone wrote it in a supposed obituary it is now fact? In fact, many people have been mistakenly declared dead only to wake up in the morgue or in the casket on the way to their funeral. This sounds more like a 'Jesus complex' to me. The good Rev dead 3 days and resurrected just like Jesus. If he was really dead for 3 days then it isn't a near death experience. It is a Death experience.

No it wasn't you. it was some guy who said he was a biologist or something similar.

As for the 3 days dead: Not only does that mean he lived 3 days without water, if he wasn't "really dead," as I said, this guy spent those 3 days in a FREEZER. Anyone who was alive and stuck in a freezer for 3 fays would definitely be dead quickly.

As for it being a "near-death" experience. That is only what people call it. The main premise of this entire thread is that these people actually "die." If they weren't revived then they would have been said to have "died."

It is only called "near-death" because they end up breathing again. It's hard to say someone died if they are currently living.

The definition of "death" and "dying" doesn't allow for anyone to come back from having died. Therefore, because of the "definition" of death, such people have to be defined differently. They are said to have had "near-death experiences". That doesn't mean they didn't actually die. It only means they eventually stopped being dead.

[+joc]

No it wasn't you. it was some guy who said he was a biologist or something similar.

As for the 3 days dead: Not only does that mean he lived 3 days without water, if he wasn't "really dead," as I said, this guy spent those 3 days in a FREEZER. Anyone who was alive and stuck in a freezer for 3 fays would definitely be dead quickly.

As for it being a "near-death" experience. That is only what people call it. The main premise of this entire thread is that these people actually "die." If they weren't revived then they would have been said to have "died."

It is only called "near-death" because they end up breathing again. It's hard to say someone died if they are currently living.

The definition of "death" and "dying" doesn't allow for anyone to come back from having died. Therefore, because of the "definition" of death, such people have to be defined differently. They are said to have had "near-death experiences". That doesn't mean they didn't actually die. It only means they eventually stopped being dead.

I don't believe anyone 'stops being dead'. Perhaps what is needed is a new definition for dead.

[Habitat]

I don't think NDE survivors "died", the fact they lived on is proof of that. However, a lot of the normal functioning of the brain is likely shut down, and it fits with the mystic experience of 'shutting down" the ego-centred mind to experience the God Channel ! Question is, why does not the "God Channel" go off the air as well ? Maybe it really is eternal........and not of this world, and this life.

[Starhunter]

It was once taught that once the electrical signals fail in the brain that it is dead. Well that's true for the detectable signals, but there are many other signals going on from molecule to molecule around receptors, chemical actions by the hundreds of hormones in the brain may continue, but which can only be assessed and remembered once the person is awake.

The power of these hormonal actions is responsible for allowing people to perform wonders of memory and mathematics and all kinds of creativity and new motor skills demonstrated by savants and the impaired.

It seems like these functions appear when the rest of the brain is damaged, of partly shut down, as if there is an interference from electrical impulses. Yet it takes a brain with these normal functions to make sense of what can be produced by the hormonal functions.

An electrical impulse is both triggered and responsible for chemical reactions, and yet there are other chemical reactions which do not require those electrical impulses.

We could go into detail of what the brain is capable of doing, but for now we can safely say that it can generate all these scenes described and interpreted by the patient as 'heaven,' when it fact it is a natural capability of the brain.

But it is a big mistake to call death a door to heaven, when it fact you turn back to dust.

[ellapenella]

Good article from the new Newsweek:

... Although I considered myself a faithful Christian, I was so more in name than in actual belief. I didn’t begrudge those who wanted to believe that Jesus was more than simply a good man who had suffered at the hands of the world. I sympathized deeply with those who wanted to believe that there was a God somewhere out there who loved us unconditionally. In fact, I envied such people the security that those beliefs no doubt provided. But as a scientist, I simply knew better than to believe them myself.

In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated, I experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.

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I know how pronouncements like mine sound to skeptics, so I will tell my story with the logic and language of the scientist I am. ...

Much more:

http://www.thedailyb...-afterlife.html

Thank you for sharing that article . Was such an inspiration ! Beautiful ! God is good always ; Always God is good .

1st. Corinthians 1:19-20

For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

[ellapenella]

That was an idea that many "non-believing" scientists had pushed forward but many NDE experiencers have been doctors and scientists themselves and have completely discredited that idea on MANY grounds, but none more than the fact that they say no amount of endorphins or even morphine or any drug or hormone known to man can even come close to comparing to what is experienced in "the beyond."

Countless mystics have told the same story, and very much like the extraordinary level of "reality" they experience that leaves them feeling as though everyday life is no more than a dream, the bliss experienced, and not even at the higher spiritual levels but much before that, is so incredible that there is no way to make the human mind even grasp it.

The very same thing is told about the incredible love that is experienced. It is said that God is NOTHING but "love and bliss" (as the New Testament also says but the Old Testament completely defies) and when you experience it you are changed forever. It is nothing even remotely like love experienced on earth, even the most incredible and intense love we can ever feel. It is very unconditional and very intense.

I am not allowed to discuss my own experiences but there are countless sources of mystics who have done so, from Christian mystics (who only ever attain the "lower" spiritual realms) to incredibly accomplished mystics such as Rumi, Nanak, Kabir and many others (who achieved the highest possible levels). And they try as best as possible to describe the love and bliss that "defies explanation." Just Google those names along with terms like love and I'm sure there will be much to read.

.

Are these people utilizing substances, other than pure mind energy ? Why do you say that you are not permitted to speak about your experience ? Who said you can't share your experience ? God is more than a human experience of what we understand love and bliss to be ...

Edited October 23, 2014 by Reann