For pure believers.

[booNyzarC]

Well, hope I can ease your concerns somewhat. The information that Paul Hellyer provided doesn't directly relate to UFO's or ET's, it stems from knowledge he gained during his time as Canadian Minister of Defence. Specifically the reason for the cancellation of the CF105 project and the development of the Avro Car:

http://en.wikipedia....da_VZ-9_Avrocar

I thought that the cancellation of the Avrocar was already fairly clear. It was, overall, a dud. Unstable, overheated, just not capable of what they were hoping to achieve.

What additional insights has Hellyer provide on this front?

On a related note: It's important, in most cases, not to dismiss sources entirely because you can find facts within their stories that can be debunked. Some of course are elaborate works of fiction however, some authors who have very pertinent facts to disclose, deliberately fill it with erroneous data for various reasons which I would assume vary as widely as the authors themselves.

As a bucket of sand may intitially appear of no value, close examination can uncover a few nuggets of gold that can lead research in the right direction!

I agree, which is why I edited my post and took a step back.

[Space Commander Travis]

Well, hope I can ease your concerns somewhat. The information that Paul Hellyer provided doesn't directly relate to UFO's or ET's, it stems from knowledge he gained during his time as Canadian Minister of Defence. Specifically the reason for the cancellation of the CF105 project and the development of the Avro Car:

http://en.wikipedia....da_VZ-9_Avrocar

Hevens, if he really did cancel the CF-105 in favour of that hopeless thing, that says all one needs to know about his judgement as Defence Minister, I think. The one thing it did prove was that any sightings of saucer shaped aircraft were very unlikely to be terrestrial projects, since that had conclusively demonstrated how hopeless it is as a design for an aircraft.

[synchronomy]

Hevens, if he really did cancel the CF-105 in favour of that hopeless thing, that says all one needs to know about his judgement as Defence Minister, I think. The one thing it did prove was that any sightings of saucer shaped aircraft were very unlikely to be terrestrial projects, since that had conclusively demonstrated how hopeless it is as a design for an aircraft.

The influence to cancel the CF105 came from the USA, as did the immediate requirement to develop a powered frizbee.

[Space Commander Travis]

The influence to cancel the CF105 came from the USA, as did the immediate requirement to develop a powered frizbee.

Pressure from the US, certaintly, but that doesn't have to mean it was anything to do with extra Terrestrials.

In August 1957, the Diefenbaker government signed the NORAD (North American Air Defense) Agreement with the United States, making Canada a partner with American command and control. The USAF was in the process of completely automating their air defence system with the SAGE project, and offered Canada the opportunity to share this sensitive information for the air defence of North America.^[64] One aspect of the SAGE system was the BOMARC nuclear-tipped anti-aircraft missile. This led to studies on basing BOMARCs in Canada in order to push the line further north, even though the deployment was found to be extremely costly.

“ The introduction of SAGE in Canada will cost in the neighbourhood of $107 million. Further improvements are required in the radar... NORAD has also recommended the introduction of the BOMARC missile... will be a further commitment of $164 million... All these commitments coming at this particular time... will tend to increase our defence budget by as much as 25 to 30%. ”

—

George Pearkes, then Minister of National Defence, 1958^[65]

Defence against ballistic missiles was also becoming a priority. The existence of Sputnik had also raised the spectre of attack from space, and, as the year progressed, word of a "missile gap" began spreading. An American brief of the meeting with Pearkes reported Pearkes "stated that the problem of developing a defence against missiles while at the same time completing and rounding out defence measures against manned bombers posed a serious problem for Canada from the point of view of expense".^[66] It is also said Canada could afford the Arrow or Bomarc/SAGE, but not both.^{[67][N 6]}

By 11 August 1958, Pearkes requested cancellation of the Arrow, but the Cabinet Defence Committee (CDC) refused. He tabled it again in September, and recommended installation of the Bomarc missile system. The latter was accepted but, again, the CDC refused to cancel the entire Arrow program. The CDC wanted to wait until a major review in 31 March 1959, however, the Sparrow/Astra system was cancelled in September 1958.^[68] Efforts to continue the program through cost-sharing with other countries were then explored.

“ We did not cancel the CF-105 because there was no bomber threat, but because there was a lesser threat and we got the Bomarc in lieu of more airplanes to look after this. ”

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CF-105)

Perhaps the Avrocar thing was ordered as part of a coverup, though, so that any sightings of saucer shaped objects could be passed off as that, who can say.

Edited October 16, 2012 by 747400

[synchronomy]

Perhaps the Avrocar thing was ordered as part of a coverup, though, so that any sightings of saucer shaped objects could be passed off as that, who can say.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

[zaqwsx]

There seems no doubt that there are things going on in the World which you won't hear about on CNN or any mainstream media.

The fact that you have accepted that does not change your reality. It doesn't "shatter" the elements which are fundamental to your existance. It's important you live your life to your full potential and don't get "freaked out" because you've been prompted to do some deep thinking.

From the sounds of it ( I could be wrong, but) you have read numerous books and come to some conclusion.

The most important thing to realize is that just because someone writes a book, it does not mean the content is true.

This is especially true of ufology.

I can assure you, there is far more nonsense published than there is fact.

Many, many authors present their own speculative conjecture as if it is cold, hard fact. Many are so good at it that they could convince many people that the Earth is hollow (bet you read that one).

No one has all the answers.

Many self-professed experts are people with an over-active imagination with access to Google and Youtube.

It's important that you seek proof for any claims you hear about. Maintaining an open mind does not mean believe everything you read.

Much as we stereotype people as either believers or skeptics...the healthiest approach to view the subject from a scientific perspective and seek confirmation for everything.

Personally I'm a believer with a healthy buffer of skepticism.

There's many authors and documentary producers out there who are just doing it to make money.

thank you for your reply and all those who showed interest on the matter.

apparently, my questions presented have been answered last night.

i always talk about the concept of freewill yet i have completely forgotten it and didn't live it.

pushing my opinions and beliefs to others would only portray nothing more than my own selfishness. someone said, "the understanding comes within."

anyways, i thank you synchronomy and to all others who did their best to provide the answers. i can't type any further my sudden ideas because they're too far from the topic i created.

anyone can disregard this thread now because the questions presented are all answered.

i humbly thank you with my wholeness. and again,

have a nice day.

[uprize]

I'm a believer! Never seen one. I did photograph something strange over Channel Islands the other day though.

may we see?

[dannyboy52]

I think the whole point of believing comes from within.I'm 59 yrs of age and theres a lot of things I thought I've believed in, in my lifetime, that have turned out to be mistaken on my part.There have always been people with their own agenda who blatantly lie, but its the ones who are canny(Scottish word for shrewd) enough to lie a little bit or embellish the true facts, just to make themselves seem interesting.I've questioned a lot of subjects in my life, but as regards UFO's 30 years ago I was walking home from a party with a bunch of guys both old and young, when I physically saw a UFO from no more than 100 yards, at rooftop level.The friend who was walking beside me(we were last in the group a little bit behind the rest) said(as you would!) ...What the **** was that!!? I said did you see it too, and from that moment on it has never been mentioned for fear of ridicule ...Scottish people can be pretty sarcastic :-).The point I'm trying to make is, in your lifetime you will come across things that you cant explan or maybe you wont want to face up to because it appears to be outside the sphere of our intelligence and lives, but even before the internet posted all the fake and crap **** that plagues genuine believers I did and do believe.It is absurd for anyne to think that in the vastness of space that we are alone. Of course, bu OUR knowledge we understand tht in OUR technology beings from other galaxies would not be able to travel through to us as it is impossibly far away.However that is OUR way of thinking, and OUR knowledge at this time may not be the same as other inhabitants who have overcome the problems with travel through "space".I am still undecided on the subject of perhaps it is another dimension or time slip.I dont profess to be intelligent enough to understand everything that happens in this world, never mind other worlds, but I know, know for a fact what I saw that night to be true. Have a great day all!

[synchronomy]

I think the whole point of believing comes from within.I'm 59 yrs of age and theres a lot of things I thought I've believed in, in my lifetime, that have turned out to be mistaken on my part.There have always been people with their own agenda who blatantly lie, but its the ones who are canny(Scottish word for shrewd) enough to lie a little bit or embellish the true facts, just to make themselves seem interesting.I've questioned a lot of subjects in my life, but as regards UFO's 30 years ago I was walking home from a party with a bunch of guys both old and young, when I physically saw a UFO from no more than 100 yards, at rooftop level.The friend who was walking beside me(we were last in the group a little bit behind the rest) said(as you would!) ...What the **** was that!!? I said did you see it too, and from that moment on it has never been mentioned for fear of ridicule ...Scottish people can be pretty sarcastic :-).The point I'm trying to make is, in your lifetime you will come across things that you cant explan or maybe you wont want to face up to because it appears to be outside the sphere of our intelligence and lives, but even before the internet posted all the fake and crap **** that plagues genuine believers I did and do believe.It is absurd for anyne to think that in the vastness of space that we are alone. Of course, bu OUR knowledge we understand tht in OUR technology beings from other galaxies would not be able to travel through to us as it is impossibly far away.However that is OUR way of thinking, and OUR knowledge at this time may not be the same as other inhabitants who have overcome the problems with travel through "space".I am still undecided on the subject of perhaps it is another dimension or time slip.I dont profess to be intelligent enough to understand everything that happens in this world, never mind other worlds, but I know, know for a fact what I saw that night to be true. Have a great day all!

Hello from Canada.

I'm a Scotsman originally from Largs and the Northeast.

I share your thoughts on facts "known" and their evolution through life. I'm 49 now and my own experiences regarding UFO's have led me to conclude there is some form of visitation taking place. The research I have done, people I have met, and two sightings (in recent years) personally have led me to conclude the phenomenon is more "fact" than a "belief". Also had a bizarre experience when I was young relating to a standing stone and ancient "heap of boulders" near Dufftown.

No one will convince me there's not something at hand. Can I prove it to anyone else? Not a chance in hell, it's just the result of a lifetime of experiences both objective and subjective.

All the Best!