European Commission warns UK

[Render]

Euro opt-outs on more than 130 criminal justice powers will cost you millions, Brussels tell UK

• Government wants back around 130 powers over British crime and justice
  
• European Commission warns of 'direct financial consequences'
  

Brussels officials are threatening to hit Britain with millions of pounds in fines in retaliation for pulling out of pan-European justice and crime policies.

The European Commission has warned of ‘direct financial consequences’ if the UK withdraws from controversial measures such as the European Arrest Warrant.

The warning was met with dismay last night by Tory backbenchers who accused Brussels of trying to ‘blackmail’ the UK.

Details of the threat emerged yesterday after Theresa May confirmed in the House of Commons that the Government is set to take back around 130 powers over British crime and justice which have been handed to Europe, including the controversial European Arrest Warrant.

http://www.dailymail...ls-tell-UK.html

Edited October 16, 2012 by Render

[Space Commander Travis]

yes! We've won the Nobel Peace Prize, so you'd better do what we tell you, or there'll be Repercussions, goddamit!

(Well, ok, i know it's .co.uk.)

[spud the mackem]

Thats what" friends "do to you when you help them out.Cut the C.T.Cord and let us be FREE again.Will they put us in Jail if we dont pay.?

[questionmark]

Expect some more of this, they are sending Cameron a message: Either you are in the EU or you are out. If you are out it is better you leave today than tomorrow because we have a union to further.

[Render]

Expect some more of this, they are sending Cameron a message: Either you are in the EU or you are out. If you are out it is better you leave today than tomorrow because we have a union to further.

Exactly, this has been going on long enough. His fear mongering for votes is damaging the image of the EU and Britain and it's really got to stop, sooner rather than later.

[smurf0852]

I honestly think if we carry on the way we are or leave they will do there utmost to damage us financially . They will make trade with Europe a lot more expensive and tax any financial transactions we do with them . It may well not happen but my gut feeling is they will.

[questionmark]

I honestly think if we carry on the way we are or leave they will do there utmost to damage us financially . They will make trade with Europe a lot more expensive and tax any financial transactions we do with them . It may well not happen but my gut feeling is they will.

Doubt it, but certainly if Britain leaves the best it can hope for is a Switzerland style agreement.

[stevewinn]

I honestly think if we carry on the way we are or leave they will do there utmost to damage us financially . They will make trade with Europe a lot more expensive and tax any financial transactions we do with them . It may well not happen but my gut feeling is they will.

we really do need to have a referendum in this parliament on our continued membership with the EU in a straight YES/NO vote. the whole thing as gotten out of control. more importantly out of our control. how have we reach a state whereby large swathes of our Justice and Home Affairs is controlled by a foreign power.

smurf i think you are spot on when it comes to the EU and us leaving, how dare a member wants to leave of their own free will. so of course they'll do their utmost to damage us. i say let them try, and people dont fear such. the UK is a member of world trade agreements if the EU try their luck we'll nail the b*******. legally.

[questionmark]

we really do need to have a referendum in this parliament on our continued membership with the EU in a straight YES/NO vote. the whole thing as gotten out of control. more importantly out of our control. how have we reach a state whereby large swathes of our Justice and Home Affairs is controlled by a foreign power.

smurf i think you are spot on when it comes to the EU and us leaving, how dare a member wants to leave of their own free will. so of course they'll do their utmost to damage us. i say let them try, and people dont fear such. the UK is a member of world trade agreements if the EU try their luck we'll nail the b*******. legally.

I don't see how you can get to that conclusion, they are just going to, step by step, implement that there is no special deal for Britain anymore and say: Take it or leave it.

[stevewinn]

I don't see how you can get to that conclusion, they are just going to, step by step, implement that there is no special deal for Britain anymore and say: Take it or leave it.

you can quite clearly see how i get to that conclusion, hence your reply. as for special deal - they can shove their special deal where the sun don't shine.

[Eldorado]

EU accounts not signed off… for the 16th consecutive year.

http://www.civitas.o...nsecutive-year/

The above is what bothers me about our European Union. It's a feast for fat greedy civil servants.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Eldorado

[Guest]

Why does the Uk expect to gain the trading benefits of been a member of the EU - if they refuse to be a member. Frankly it is grossly unfair to the real members.

Steve I predicted that this would happen and you couldn't understand what possible justification there could be - put simply fairness.

If the UK doesn't want to be a member then they should sling their hook and start to pay export tariffs to those who are preapared to share the costs and benefit. This is why it will never come to a referendum - because those who actually know what the situation is will never crucify the already struggling UK industry.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 16, 2012 by Guest

[smurf0852]

Why does the Uk expect to gain the trading benefits of been a member of the EU - if they refuse to be a member. Frankly it is grossly unfair to the real members.

Steve I predicted that this would happen and you couldn't understand what possible justification there could be - put simply fairness.

If the UK doesn't want to be a member then they should sling their hook and start to pay export tariffs to those who are preapared to share the costs and benefit. This is why it will never come to a referendum - because those who actually know what the situation is will never crucify the already struggling UK industry.

Br Cornelius

i agree the problem wth britain is (mostly england i must point out) we always want the benefit of things that we think we are entitled to because we used to be a global power.

the problem is we are not any more and never will be again .to have any kind of global presence we need to be part of a block of some sort .the reasonable choice is of course europe who we share the most history and social values with.

britain though cant seem to grasp that even though we are british, europe doesnt have to do what we want them to do .every partnership is about compromise something the british are terribal at (except for allowing reagan to invade a commonweath country to overthrow a democraticly elected goverment but thats a different story) the end result will be a much poorer britain.

i agree with people that europe should be more democratic and accountable with individual countrys voting on an issue and then using a block vote but with all the posturing and stupidity of politicians worldwide i fear this will never happen

and we will end up the poor man of europe because people want to massage there ego's.

[Space Commander Travis]

i agree the problem wth britain is (mostly england i must point out) we always want the benefit of things that we think we are entitled to because we used to be a global power.

the problem is we are not any more and never will be again .to have any kind of global presence we need to be part of a block of some sort .the reasonable choice is of course europe who we share the most history and social values with.

britain though cant seem to grasp that even though we are british, europe doesnt have to do what we want them to do .every partnership is about compromise something the british are terribal at (except for allowing reagan to invade a commonweath country to overthrow a democraticly elected goverment but thats a different story) the end result will be a much poorer britain.

i agree with people that europe should be more democratic and accountable with individual countrys voting on an issue and then using a block vote but with all the posturing and stupidity of politicians worldwide i fear this will never happen

and we will end up the poor man of europe because people want to massage there ego's.

That's exactly the thing; trade: fine; but it's not about free trade, in fact it's just the opposite, it's a means for politicians, who either can't get into power in their own country or they're too ambitious to be satisified with merely being having power over their own country, to have power. It's just one more layer of Politicians on top of the ones everyone already has. And, of course, the higher one gets and the more power one has, the more arrogant & out of touch with the "People" one inevitably gets. That's the whole point of complaints about what the EU has become; it's nothing to do with free & fair trade between nations any more. It's just an opportunity for Politicians to dictate to people; and not just in their own countries; now they can dictate to other countries as well!

[Space Commander Travis]

Why does the Uk expect to gain the trading benefits of been a member of the EU - if they refuse to be a member. Frankly it is grossly unfair to the real members.

Steve I predicted that this would happen and you couldn't understand what possible justification there could be - put simply fairness.

If the UK doesn't want to be a member then they should sling their hook and start to pay export tariffs to those who are preapared to share the costs and benefit. This is why it will never come to a referendum - because those who actually know what the situation is will never crucify the already struggling UK industry.

Br Cornelius

And this is exactly the point; What have the benefits of free trade & export tariffs and all that sort of thing got to do with having to have pointless regulations imposed in the interests of "Euro Harmonisation"? Why should that have to be a prerequisite of enjoying freedom from export tariffs? Should not countries be able to trade with others on the grounds of the prodcuts they offer? All of these Euro harmonisation laws and demands (e.g. Common Agricultural Fisheries Policy & so on) are purely to protect, mainly, French interests. They're nothing to do with fair trade or bringing peoples closer together; they're just to protect inefficient State-subsidised industries in France. That's what the EU is all about now. It really exists just to prop up the French economy.

[stevewinn]

Why does the Uk expect to gain the trading benefits of been a member of the EU - if they refuse to be a member. Frankly it is grossly unfair to the real members.

Steve I predicted that this would happen and you couldn't understand what possible justification there could be - put simply fairness.

If the UK doesn't want to be a member then they should sling their hook and start to pay export tariffs to those who are preapared to share the costs and benefit. This is why it will never come to a referendum - because those who actually know what the situation is will never crucify the already struggling UK industry.

Br Cornelius

Why does Britain expect to gain the trade benefits, well our £50 million pound a day contribution to be a member entitles us to any benefits the EU offers. though to me these benefits are questionable. especially when the EU forbids us making our own trade deals with India for example. I ask the question how can that be right that the worlds fifth/sixth largest economy is forbidden to make its own trade deals.

My colours are firmly nailed to the mast as you know, I'd love nothing more than the UK slinging our hook as you put it. all i want is the UK to leave the European Union, there is nothing wrong with us being just good neighbours. to me the european union will never work. they strive for greater unity between members, its now openly debated - as a federal union, with ever greater control over the lives of people within - everything from the delivering of mail to the collection of rubbish to the other end of the scale - law and order, home affairs to mooted national budgets etc.

If members want to sign their sovereignty over to a foreign unelected power then thats their entitlement. i can see the benefit of certain countries joining the EU countries such as Ireland, Belgium, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Romania, Latvia Greece Estonia etc. all these countries need massive investment to bring their living standards to that of the more successful northern european members - Germany, France etc. there are also greater cultural and social problems. that is why the EU is doomed to fail, how can you succeed with that millstone around the neck. 190+ countries in the world. the world is not 27 members of the EU.

The future of the United Kingdom is not within the EU. we can do without it and all it brings. just accept the people of the UK want out. respect that. that is why we need a referendum once and for all. - either way in or out both the EU and UK will go on, neither are going to fall off the face of the world.

[Guest]

Why does Britain expect to gain the trade benefits, well our £50 million pound a day contribution to be a member entitles us to any benefits the EU offers. though to me these benefits are questionable. especially when the EU forbids us making our own trade deals with India for example. I ask the question how can that be right that the worlds fifth/sixth largest economy is forbidden to make its own trade deals.

My colours are firmly nailed to the mast as you know, I'd love nothing more than the UK slinging our hook as you put it. all i want is the UK to leave the European Union, there is nothing wrong with us being just good neighbours. to me the european union will never work. they strive for greater unity between members, its now openly debated - as a federal union, with ever greater control over the lives of people within - everything from the delivering of mail to the collection of rubbish to the other end of the scale - law and order, home affairs to mooted national budgets etc.

If members want to sign their sovereignty over to a foreign unelected power then thats their entitlement. i can see the benefit of certain countries joining the EU countries such as Ireland, Belgium, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Romania, Latvia Greece Estonia etc. all these countries need massive investment to bring their living standards to that of the more successful northern european members - Germany, France etc. there are also greater cultural and social problems. that is why the EU is doomed to fail, how can you succeed with that millstone around the neck. 190+ countries in the world. the world is not 27 members of the EU.

The future of the United Kingdom is not within the EU. we can do without it and all it brings. just accept the people of the UK want out. respect that. that is why we need a referendum once and for all. - either way in or out both the EU and UK will go on, neither are going to fall off the face of the world.

Most of the export's Britain makes are to the EU. Most of those exports would not transfer to other nations outside of the EU (because they are perishables for example or just plain none competitive with comparable items made in the far east). The UK would have to find alternative products with which to compete with other distant nations. A local trading block has significant cost benefits over distance trading.

However in order for that to work all those trading partners have to be working on a level playing field and that is where the raft of common health and safety, environmental and product standards come into play. They are not there simply to interfere with the UK - they are essential for a fair and equitable trading relationship.

If and when the UK leaves the EU they will still have to meet most of the product standard codes in order to continue exporting to their ex-partners. This will impose costs on top of the import tariffs they will face. Britains already marginally competitive products will start to become uncompetitive and the consequence is likely to be a contraction of exports.

In the modern world its a nice idea to have your independence - but you better have something damn special to justify that status. I don't see the UK having anything particularly special (other than a bloated arms industry that is). Little Britisher mentality comes at a severe cost in the big bad market driven world out there - I hoppe you realise what that cost will be.

Br Cornelius

[Guest]

And this is exactly the point; What have the benefits of free trade & export tariffs and all that sort of thing got to do with having to have pointless regulations imposed in the interests of "Euro Harmonisation"? Why should that have to be a prerequisite of enjoying freedom from export tariffs? Should not countries be able to trade with others on the grounds of the prodcuts they offer? All of these Euro harmonisation laws and demands (e.g. Common Agricultural Fisheries Policy & so on) are purely to protect, mainly, French interests. They're nothing to do with fair trade or bringing peoples closer together; they're just to protect inefficient State-subsidised industries in France. That's what the EU is all about now. It really exists just to prop up the French economy.

A level playing field is why those regulations are in place. It stops countries cutting costs by cutting health and safety, environmental, product standards and working conditions to outcompete their neighbours. Ireland has been in a long standing battle over its corporate tax rate for exactly these reasons.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

Most of the export's Britain makes are to the EU. Most of those exports would not transfer to other nations outside of the EU (because they are perishables for example or just plain none competitive with comparable items made in the far east). The UK would have to find alternative products with which to compete with other distant nations. A local trading block has significant cost benefits over distance trading.

However in order for that to work all those trading partners have to be working on a level playing field and that is where the raft of common health and safety, environmental and product standards come into play. They are not there simply to interfere with the UK - they are essential for a fair and equitable trading relationship.

If and when the UK leaves the EU they will still have to meet most of the product standard codes in order to continue exporting to their ex-partners. This will impose costs on top of the import tariffs they will face. Britains already marginally competitive products will start to become uncompetitive and the consequence is likely to be a contraction of exports.

In the modern world its a nice idea to have your independence - but you better have something damn special to justify that status. I don't see the UK having anything particularly special (other than a bloated arms industry that is). Little Britisher mentality comes at a severe cost in the big bad market driven world out there - I hoppe you realise what that cost will be.

Br Cornelius

why 'o why use the phrases - Little englander or Britisher when discussing the EU? How can this be labeled at people who don't want to be part of the EU. not one person is calling for protectionism, in fact speaking for myself i always advocate better trade relationship with the open world - tell me how the hell is that little englander/ Britisher mentality. Im not proposing to leave EU then retreat into our shell and shut the door behind us. Oh no, far from it im advocating leaving the EU and all the entanglement it brings, im advocating opening our doors - wide open for the world.

Even if we were not a EU member we'll still have trade with Europe, trade is a two way street, not a one way street, Britain's future as always been the seas. and this is were our future trade and prosperity lies.. 95 per cent of Britain’s economic activity, imports and exports travels by sea.

Its always been hotly debated what percentage of trade is with the EU, officially now Britain exports more to the world than it does to the EU. we should have been on this path long ago, we should have been targeting emerging markets of the world.

It may be worth reminding people that back in 1973 the British people voted for a trade agreement. and not what we have today.

[Guest]

why 'o why use the phrases - Little englander or Britisher when discussing the EU? How can this be labeled at people who don't want to be part of the EU. not one person is calling for protectionism, in fact speaking for myself i always advocate better trade relationship with the open world - tell me how the hell is that little englander/ Britisher mentality. Im not proposing to leave EU then retreat into our shell and shut the door behind us. Oh no, far from it im advocating leaving the EU and all the entanglement it brings, im advocating opening our doors - wide open for the world.

Even if we were not a EU member we'll still have trade with Europe, trade is a two way street, not a one way street, Britain's future as always been the seas. and this is were our future trade and prosperity lies.. 95 per cent of Britain’s economic activity, imports and exports travels by sea.

Its always been hotly debated what percentage of trade is with the EU, officially now Britain exports more to the world than it does to the EU. we should have been on this path long ago, we should have been targeting emerging markets of the world.

It may be worth reminding people that back in 1973 the British people voted for a trade agreement. and not what we have today.

Almost no trading nation operates without trade tariffs - the benefit of a trading block is entirely in the absence of such tariffs. Take for example the land of Free Enterprise (USA) which has some of the highest trade tariffs in the world. So opening your markets to the world would place you at a significant disadvantage with your EU neighbours - not open up a competitive advantage. The only way you could compete with those distant lands would be through a bonfire of the regulations (as you and the Tories advocate) which would have dramatic implications for the living standards of most of the working population of the UK. I personally very much appreciate that the UK is constrained from dumping its Nuclear waste into the common air and sea between it and Ireland.

Coupled to that is the fact that many multinational companies only locate to the UK because it offers them a tariff free opportunity to export into the EU. Once you withdraw most would simply upsticks and move to places like Ireland.

According to HMS Revenue exports to the EU are approximately £15 billion per month and exports to non-EU countries are approximately £11billion. i will take HMS word over any right wing think tanks bogus claims.

Your position is based upon things which are not real.

A return to the good old days of Victorian capitalism is what you are advocated - and weren't we all so much better off back then.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 17, 2012 by Guest

[stevewinn]

Almost no trading nation operates without trade tariffs - the benefit of a trading block is entirely in the absence of such tariffs. Take for example the land of Free Enterprise (USA) which has some of the highest trade tariffs in the world. So opening your markets to the world would place you at a significant disadvantage with your EU neighbours - not open up a competitive advantage. The only way you could compete with those distant lands would be through a bonfire of the regulations (as you and the Tories advocate) which would have dramatic implications for the living standards of most of the working population of the UK. I personally very much appreciate that the UK is constrained from dumping its Nuclear waste into the common air and sea between it and Ireland.

Your position is based upon things which are not real.

A return to the good old days of Victorian capitalism is what you are advocated - and weren't we all so much better off back then.

Br Cornelius

Lets remember we are a global exporter, as a non EU member we could negotiate our own terms and conditions this is what trade is all about. the more we discuss this the more evident it becomes the EU offers very little for the UK. the reality seems the UK would prosper outside the EU. the common theme here is trade, it seems this is the only argument to keep us as a member. a fear of leave the EU and you'll slip into the abyss. when in fact non EU economies around the world are growing. the only thing to fear is fear itself.

If we look around the world trade is being done through the different trade blocs, through different countries coming together and striking beneficial deals the difference is these frame works are set up for the benefit of trade they dont have all imposing diktats the likes we see from Brussels.

At the end of the day the ultimate aim of the EU is a superstate. Barosso in his speech actually used the word Federal union, the use of the word federal shows how bold this EU is becoming, he ended his speech with 'This is our project. A project which is step by step but with a big ambition for the future with a Federation as our horizon for Europe'

I dont want to be part of a european federation.

his speech.

A federation of nation states

A deep and genuine economic and monetary union, a political union, with a coherent foreign and defence policy, means ultimately that the present European Union must evolve.

Let’s not be afraid of the words: we will need to move towards a federation of nation states. This is what we need. This is our political horizon. This is what must guide our work in the years to come.

A New EU Treaty

Creating this federation of nation states will ultimately require a new Treaty. I do not say this lightly. We are all aware how difficult treaty change has become. It has to be well prepared. Discussions on treaty change must not distract or delay us from doing what can and must be done already today.

A deep and genuine economic and monetary union can be started under the current Treaties, but can only be completed with changes in the treaties. So let's start it now but let's have the horizon for the future present in our decisions of today.

… Before the next European Parliament elections in 2014, the Commission will present its outline for the shape of the future European Union. And we will put forward explicit ideas for Treaty change in time for a debate.

More unity demands more integration

The reality is that in an interconnected world, Europe's Member States on their own are no longer able to effectively steer the course of events. But at the same time, they have not yet equipped their Union – our Union —with the instruments needed to cope with this new reality. We are now in a transition, in a defining moment. This moment requires decisions and leadership.

Yes, globalisation demands more European unity. More unity demands more integration. More integration demands more democracy, European democracy. In Europe, this means first and foremost accepting that we are all in the same boat. It means recognising the commonality of our European interests.

It means embracing the interdependence of our destinies. And it means demanding a true sense of common responsibility and solidarity. Because when you are on a boat in the middle of the storm, absolute loyalty is the minimum you demand from your fellow crew members.

A Banking and Fiscal Union

We must complete the economic and monetary union. We must create a banking union and a fiscal union and the corresponding institutional and political mechanisms.

Today, the Commission is presenting legislative proposals for a single European supervisory mechanism. This is the stepping stone to a banking union.

… To deliver lasting results, we need to develop a fully equipped Community economic governance together with a genuine, credible Community fiscal capacity.

Political Union

Ultimately, the credibility and sustainability of the Economic and Monetary Union depends on the institutions and the political construct behind it.

This is why the Economic and Monetary Union raises the question of a political union and the European democracy that must underpin it.

If we want economic and monetary union to succeed, we need to combine ambition and proper sequencing. We need to take concrete steps now, with a political union as a horizon.

I would like to see the development of a European public space, where European issues are discussed and debated from a European standpoint. We cannot continue trying to solve European problems just with national solutions.

Foreign and Defence Policy Integration

The world needs an EU that keeps its leadership at the forefront of development and humanitarian assistance. That stands by open economies and fights protectionism. That leads the fight against climate change.

The world needs a Europe that is capable of deploying military missions to help stabilize the situation in crisis areas. We need to launch a comprehensive review of European capabilities and begin truly collective defense planning. Yes, we need to reinforce our Common Foreign and Security Policy and a common approach to defense matters because together we have the power, and the scale to shape the world into a fairer, rules based and human rights' abiding place.

Timetable for the future of the European Project

The sequence I put before you today is clear. We should start by doing all we can to stabilise the euro area and accelerate growth in the EU as a whole. The Commission will present all the necessary proposals and we have started today with the single supervisor to create a banking union, in line with the current Treaty provisions.

Secondly, we will present our blueprint on a deep and genuine economic and monetary union, including the political instruments, and this will be done still this autumn

We will present here again all proposals in line with the current Treaty provisions.

And thirdly, where we cannot move forward under the existing treaties, we will present explicit proposals for the necessary Treaty changes ahead of the next European Parliamentary election in 2014, including elements for reinforced democracy and accountability

This is our project. A project which is step by step but with a big ambition for the future with a Federation as our horizon for Europe.

[Guest]

A federal Europe offers us many advantages. I am fairly certain that the Americans would disagree with you that a federation of states has caused their downfall.

You may not want to be a member of a European Federation - but frankly that is immaterial to what is best for Britain.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

A federal Europe offers us many advantages. I am fairly certain that the Americans would disagree with you that a federation of states has caused their downfall.

You may not want to be a member of a European Federation - but frankly that is immaterial to what is best for Britain.

Br Cornelius

i remember arguing with Questionmark and Keith on here a year or so about about the ambitions of the EU and the worst kept secret of the ultimate goal - a EU federation, Q and Keith argued on technicalities this wasn't the case, well they've (EU) let the cat out of the bag and I / we've been proved correct in our assessment.

Extremely bad comparison - You simply cannot compare the USA and a federal EU the two are worlds apart.

Once the EU gets ahead of steam on this federal ambition you will see the UK leave without doubt and my prediction is others will follow. time will tell.

Edited October 17, 2012 by stevewinn

[Professor Buzzkill]

A federal Europe offers us many advantages. I am fairly certain that the Americans would disagree with you that a federation of states has caused their downfall.

You may not want to be a member of a European Federation - but frankly that is immaterial to what is best for Britain.

Br Cornelius

Why do you think giving up your individual freedoms to a foreign government is a smart idea? Do you advocate abolishing the pound so that you have no control over monetary policy as well?

In America, there was a shared culture, with most people speaking English and being christian. What do you have in common with a Romanian or Spanish person? Language? Culture? Ideology?

[questionmark]

In America, there was a shared culture, with most people speaking English and being christian. What do you have in common with a Romanian or Spanish person? Language? Culture? Ideology?

There is much more of a shared culture in Europe than there is in America, at least most of it comes from the good old Roman Empire, which means that the law fundamentals and the social cohesion base on a model 2000 years old. And in Europe most are Christian too, so that hardly is an argument.

The only places the Romans have not been long enough to bring some civilization is Britain and Germany East of the Rhine River.