DHS orders 160 billion rounds of ammo

[Varelse]

Home land has now bought over 10 times the amount they have in any other year. This is an arms race between the government and the people.

Don't worry. If you're a moderate or live and let live libertarian you will be fine. Everyone else is going to the new gulag we're building in Frutopia. Especially fright wingers who spend too much time on the internet spreading conspiracy theories, they'll be first.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Mr. Smith

[aztek]

hey, may be they need all the ammo cuz they finally decided to guard our borders now, and issue border agent live ammo instead of bean bags. lets hope it is so.

[Varelse]

hey, may be they need all the ammo cuz they finally decided to guard our borders now, and issue border agent live ammo instead of bean bags. lets hope it is so.

Good luck with that. Big business wants cheap labor and the prison/law enforcement groups want illegal drugs to keep coming so they can make mo' money.

eta:but it would be nice to see real border enforcement.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Mr. Smith

[MiskatonicGrad]

Don't worry. If you're a moderate or live and let live libertarian you will be fine. Everyone else is going to the new gulag we're building in Frutopia. Especially fright wingers who spend too much time on the internet spreading conspiracy theories, they'll be first.

FEMA camps there real I read it on the internet.

[Stellar]

160 Billion? That's not a really big number, in the long term. DHS has around 200,000 employees. This is a one time order, so what we're talking 160b divided by 200,000 employees, that's 800,000 rounds per employee. Over ten years that about 6700 rounds per employees for ten years. That's comes out to about 55 rounds per months over ten years. Most DHS law enforcement divisions practice with their firearms to the tune of a couple hundred rounds per month. So really, I would have expected this number to be much higher. Even if it's for five years, that number is still only 110 rounds per month to practice with, this doesn't include duty rounds to be carried on duty so even if it's for 2.5 years, it still only comes out to a handful of duty rounds per agent per month. Not a big concern, when all the facts are looked at.

800 000 of their employees are certainly not all armed.

Also, does anyone know what type of ammo this is, out of curiosity?

[preacherman76]

You are right to be upset about the patriot act and NDAA. But you should be upset at Bush, Congress, and Obama.

Oh believe me Neo, I Am. If it were up to me both 0bama Bush and several members of congress would be in jail cells right now waiting to be executed. The patriot act and the last version of NDAA is more then enough reason to give both of these scumbags a dirt nap for treason.

Most of the other things you listed are obvious half truths. I'm very much in favor of Obamacare, he drew down in Iraq, did NOT get us involved in Syria, Egypt, Algeria, or Libya.... all nations that were heavily involved in the Arab Spring. We did not put boots on the ground. So I'm not sure what you are saying about advancing wars in the middle east. Care to elaborate?

You like that 0bama is forcing millons of new customers to pay his insurance budies? We drew down in Iraq, just to move them to Afgan. He replaces the ones in Iraq with blackwater. Basicaly paid thugs. We funded and helped support the alciada in Lybia and will do the same with Syria. You dont have to have boots on the ground to wage a war on someone. And wage war we did. Illegaly. And its far from over. Im pretty sure 0bama is gona be re-elected. Wait till you see the version of 0bama that no longer needs to be re-elected.

[Pauly Dangerously]

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800 000 of their employees are certainly not all armed.

Also, does anyone know what type of ammo this is, out of curiosity?

Well, yeah, it's only got 200,000 employees. But try to remember how many different groups fall under DHS.

From Wiki:

The Department of Homeland Security is headed by the Secretary of Homeland Security with the assistance of the Deputy Secretary. The Department contains the components listed below.^[9] Not all subcomponents are listed; see the linked articles for more details.

Agencies:

• United States Citizenship and Immigration Services: Processes and examines citizenship, residency, and asylum requests from aliens.
  
• U.S. Customs and Border Protection: Law enforcement agency that enforces U.S. laws along its international borders (air, land, and sea) including its enforcement of U.S. immigration, customs, and agriculture laws while at and patrolling between all U.S. ports-of-entry.
  
• U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement: Law enforcement agency divided into two bureaus:
  

1. An agency that enforces U.S. laws while it investigates and gathers intelligence on national and international criminal activities that threaten the security of the homeland (Homeland Security Investigations); and
   
2. An agency that investigates violations of the Immigration and Nationality Act and enforces the detention, deportation and removal of violators of United States immigration law (Enforcement and Removal Operations).
   

• Transportation Security Administration: Responsible for aviation security (domestic and international, most notably conducting passenger screenings at airports), as well as land and water transportation security
  
• United States Coast Guard: Military service responsible for law enforcement, maritime security, national defense, maritime mobility, and protection of natural resources.^[10]
  
• United States Secret Service: Law enforcement agency that investigates threats against and provides protective services for the President and Vice President of the United States and their immediate families as well as other important governmental officials. While under jurisdiction of the United States Treasury Department before 2003, they also formerly investigated crimes against the U.S. monetary system including the crime of counterfeiting U.S. currency and other financial instruments.
  
• Federal Emergency Management Agency: agency that oversees the federal government's response to natural disasters like earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, forest fires, etc.
  

(Passports for U.S. citizens are issued by the United States Department of State, not the Department of Homeland Security.)

Advisory groups:

• Homeland Security Advisory Council: State and local government, first responders, private sector, and academics
  
• National Infrastructure Advisory Council: Advises on security of public and private information systems
  
• Homeland Security Science and Technology Advisory Committee: Advise the Under Secretary for Science and Technology.
  
• Critical Infrastructure Partnership Advisory Council: Coordinate infrastructure protection with private sector and other levels of government
  
• Interagency Coordinating Council on Emergency Preparedness and Individuals with Disabilities
  
• Task Force on New Americans: "An inter-agency effort to help immigrants learn English, embrace the common core of American civic culture, and become fully American."
  

Other components:

• Domestic Nuclear Detection Office: Develop nuclear threat detection capabilities at all levels of government and in the private sector
  
• Federal Law Enforcement Training Center: Interagency law enforcement training facilities located in Georgia, New Mexico, and South Carolina.
  
• National Protection and Programs Directorate: risk-reduction, encompassing both physical and virtual threats and their associated human elements.
  
  • Federal Protective Service: Federal law enforcement and security agency that protects and investigates crimes against U.S. federal buildings, properties, assets, and federal government interests.
    
  • National Communications System
    

  [*]Directorate for Science and Technology: Research and development

  [*]Directorate for Management: Responsible for internal budgets, accounting, performance monitoring, and human resources

  [*]Office of Policy: Long-range policy planning and coordination

  • Office of Immigration Statistics
    

  [*]Office of Health Affairs: Medical preparedness

  [*]Office of Intelligence and Analysis: Identify and assess threats based on intelligence from various agencies

  [*]Office of Operations Coordination: Monitor domestic security situation on a daily basis, coordinate activities with state and local authorities and private sector infrastructure

  [*]Office of the Secretary includes the Privacy Office, Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, Office of Inspector General, Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman, Office of Legislative Affairs, Office of the General Counsel, Office of Public Affairs, Office of Counternarcotics Enforcement (CNE), Office of the Executive Secretariat (ESEC), and the Military Advisor's Office.

  [*]National Cyber Security Center

I've bolded the ones I believe act in a law enforce capacity. The two major ones are the United States Coast Guard and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. Each of these entities goes through thousands of rounds per month. I averaged my numbers out over the whole DHS to make the math simpler to understand, but If the USCG and the FLETC go through twenty thousand rounds a month between training and active Coast Guard duties (remember that this includes all firearms traning for the USCG in basic training, and continuing marksmanship training, as well as active duty drug interdiction, pirate interdiction, close security for VIP's), then add to that Secret Service training, Customs and Border Patrol and Immigration, 160b will go really fast.

[preacherman76]

Well, unless you know some people with nukes, drones, and cruise missiles, I am pretty sure you aren't going to win any arms races with the U.S. Government.

Thats assuming the whole military sides with the government. According to homeland, returning vets are the number 1 terrorist threat.

[Corp]

So you have nothing to worry about then.

[Neognosis]

You like that 0bama is forcing millons of new customers to pay his insurance budies?

Yes. If it results in coverage for everyone and no more denial of preexisting conditions.

We drew down in Iraq, just to move them to Afgan. He replaces the ones in Iraq with blackwater. Basicaly paid thugs.

I'm going to ask you to show the numbers to support your assertion that all the personnel removed from Iraq were re-stationed in Afghanistan.

We funded and helped support the alciada in Lybia and will do the same with Syria.

I think you are trying to say "Al Qaeda." If you are, it's quite a claim to say that we are funding al qaeda in Libya and Syria. I think you are confusing anyone fighting a guerrilla or terrorist action with Al Qaeda.

You dont have to have boots on the ground to wage a war on someone.

You sort of do. There's quite a difference between covertly funding people in their own country and occupying that country with armed forces.

The situation was RIPE for us to put boots on the ground in syria, Libya, Egypt even. And we did not. And for this, as a father of two, I am glad. I would prefer we did NOTHING in the region at all, but encouraging rebels and sending them a little something through third party channels is much, much different than landing troops in their back yard.

[Varelse]

http://www.examiner.com/article/department-of-homeland-security-buys-even-more-hollow-point-rounds

Even if this sketchy source(the only one I could find that wasn't random hearsay) is to be believed it still means the op is bs. Just another hyperventilating rant. And solicitations for bids do not mean anything is/was/will be actually bought. Much of that goes into budget planning and proposals. It can take years for those orders to go through and they rarely get what they ask for. We also don't know how much will be resold to police and other law enforcement or will go across borders to ops with the dea or cia. Also, anyone have an idea how many rounds are needed to train just one police officer or border agent? Or to keep them proficient?

And the link in the op has nothing to do with dhs buying ammo. Fail.

That being said i still think most that money could be better spent. But I won't loose any sleep over it.

[Simbi Laveau]

http://www.infowars.com/big-sis-ignores-congressmans-demand-for-briefing-on-bullet-buys/

It would appear that no one in the Obama admin is willing to discuss why the DHS is buying so much ammo ,and yes,they purchased even more in the last month .

People within the govt are starting to get concerned ,as it is NOT normal,nor is buying hollow points .

Edited March 29, 2013 by Simbi Laveau

[Kowalski]

http://www.infowars....on-bullet-buys/

It would appear that no one in the Obama admin is willing to discuss why the DHS is buying so much ammo ,and yes,they purchased even more in the last month .

People within the govt are starting to get concerned ,as it is NOT normal,nor is buying hollow points .

Thanks for posting this!

I could understand them buying ALOT of rounds, if they weren't HOLLOW POINT. Why in the world would you use hollow point for "training purposes"....

[+and-then]

I recently heard someone remark that the excess purchases could be a below the radar method of helping to control guns by increasing the cost of ammo. No idea if it's true but I wouldn't put it past this president. Between these purchases and what is being generated for the war the production capacities must be strained some.

[lightly]

... how about some manufacturers , and investors, are making obscene amounts of money selling ammo to the government? too obvious?

[AsteroidX]

Violating and controlling the 2nd Amendment by denial of ammo is being discussed certainly. But that ammo is coming off federal ammo lines and marines in Afghanistan are being told to conserve ammo because of the shortage so it is more far reaching then civilian ammo purchases.

[Kowalski]

I recently heard someone remark that the excess purchases could be a below the radar method of helping to control guns by increasing the cost of ammo. No idea if it's true but I wouldn't put it past this president. Between these purchases and what is being generated for the war the production capacities must be strained some.

I never thought of that....

[ninjadude]

It would appear that no one in the Obama admin is willing to discuss why the DHS is buying so much ammo

yes they have and it's not a conspiracy from a conspiracy site.

[Simbi Laveau]

I recently heard someone remark that the excess purchases could be a below the radar method of helping to control guns by increasing the cost of ammo. No idea if it's true but I wouldn't put it past this president. Between these purchases and what is being generated for the war the production capacities must be strained some.

I thought of this,but it doesn't explain why they started doing it long before Sandyhook . Like at least a year earlier ? And the article is aboit a congressman,who's sister is on Obama's admin .She won't even answer her own brother as to the why .

[Simbi Laveau]

N

yes they have and it's not a conspiracy from a conspiracy site.

So show us where they have ,and so its a conspiracy site . Is this not the truth . A congressman asked his sister to explain bullet purchases,but they haven't .

Do post a link to show all us theorists wrong.no one believes they need HOLLOWPOINT BULLETS ,for anything. Least of all our oceanographic society or social security ,as they both bought bullets last year too .

Edited March 30, 2013 by Simbi Laveau

[Yamato]

I recently heard someone remark that the excess purchases could be a below the radar method of helping to control guns by increasing the cost of ammo. No idea if it's true but I wouldn't put it past this president. Between these purchases and what is being generated for the war the production capacities must be strained some.

It's a terrible idea then and it'll never work. It'll encourage people to start their own ammunition businesses and I wouldn't bet for a moment they're not already on the way. Unless Obama is also going to control the market once again and try to prevent these businesses from starting up.

[Babe Ruth]

http://www.infowars....on-bullet-buys/

It would appear that no one in the Obama admin is willing to discuss why the DHS is buying so much ammo ,and yes,they purchased even more in the last month .

People within the govt are starting to get concerned ,as it is NOT normal,nor is buying hollow points .

Years ago, there was an idea floated regarding the drug war, that the government buy up all the poppy, or coca, or whatever, thereby denying to users the drugs. Stoopid idea IMO, but somebody really did propose it.

So, it's possible some brilliant government bureaucrat came up with a similar theory about ammo. Wouldn't surpise me.

I don't keep up with it much anymore, but many years ago a fair number of people reloaded their ammo, or paid a friend who did it.

[ninjadude]

So show us where they have ,and so its a conspiracy site . Is this not the truth . A congressman asked his sister to explain bullet purchases,but they haven't .

The Department of Homeland Security responded Friday to questions from Rep. Tim Huelskamp, R-Kan., about why the agency was allegedly planning to buy some 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition over the next five years.

DHS told Whispers it regularly fills all of its goods and services requirements at one time because it's cheaper for the agency, and that the 1.6 billion number was misleading because the language of DHS's purchase said it would need "up to" a certain amount.

One solicitation by the agency—for training centers and law enforcement personnel—was for "up to" 750 million rounds of training ammunition over the next five years, DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard told Whispers.

Another five-year contract allows for the purchase of "up to" 450 million rounds of ammunition, he said, and was also for law enforcement. Boogaard noted that the contract would be used by all DHS agencies except the Coast Guard.

"With more than 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel in DHS, significant quantities of ammunition are used to support law enforcement operations, quarterly qualifications, and training, to include advanced firearms training exercises," Boogaard told Whispers.

...

DHS routinely establishes strategic sourcing contracts that combine the requirements of all its components for commonly purchased goods and services such as ammunition," a DHS legislative affairs person wrote to Coburn. "These strategic sourcing contracts help leverage the purchasing power of DHS to efficiently procure equipment and supplies at significantly lower costs," the department told Coburn.

http://www.usnews.co...nition-purchase

Edited March 31, 2013 by ninjadude

[lightly]

Why do we need " more than 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel in DHS " ?

.. we already had police to protect us from ourselves.. and the most powerful

military in the world , to protect us from others.

Are "they" expecting an invasion of THE terrists ? ... Insanity.

Edited March 31, 2013 by lightly

[Kowalski]

The Department of Homeland Security responded Friday to questions from Rep. Tim Huelskamp, R-Kan., about why the agency was allegedly planning to buy some 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition over the next five years.

DHS told Whispers it regularly fills all of its goods and services requirements at one time because it's cheaper for the agency, and that the 1.6 billion number was misleading because the language of DHS's purchase said it would need "up to" a certain amount.

One solicitation by the agency—for training centers and law enforcement personnel—was for "up to" 750 million rounds of training ammunition over the next five years, DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard told Whispers.

Another five-year contract allows for the purchase of "up to" 450 million rounds of ammunition, he said, and was also for law enforcement. Boogaard noted that the contract would be used by all DHS agencies except the Coast Guard.

"With more than 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel in DHS, significant quantities of ammunition are used to support law enforcement operations, quarterly qualifications, and training, to include advanced firearms training exercises," Boogaard told Whispers.

...

DHS routinely establishes strategic sourcing contracts that combine the requirements of all its components for commonly purchased goods and services such as ammunition," a DHS legislative affairs person wrote to Coburn. "These strategic sourcing contracts help leverage the purchasing power of DHS to efficiently procure equipment and supplies at significantly lower costs," the department told Coburn.

http://www.usnews.co...nition-purchase

While I can understand them buying ammunition, why are they buying hollow point?