As A Christian, When Is It Ok to Fight/Kill?

[Amalthe]

It is a simple question of "Justice" and "Mercy".

It is a "Just" thing to defend yourself against enemy attacking you, so you have right to stop the attacker. However is is more spiritually perfect to turn other cheek and allow to be hurt by attacker. By showing him "Mercy" in a way that you allow yourself to get hurt, although you could defend, you might make enough impression on him to convert him to Christianity. such things happened in history. And turning enemy into a fellow believer is greatest achievement a Christian can do. However, if attacker is trying to take your life, consider that by dying you might be passing future opportunities to do good and convert more unbelievers into Christians, so you should protect your life.

In short, it is acceptable to defend yourself, but it's more perfect not to defend.

[Beckys_Mom]

However, if attacker is trying to take your life, consider that by dying you might be passing future opportunities to do good and convert more unbelievers into Christians, so you should protect your life.

In short, it is acceptable to defend yourself, but it's more perfect not to defend.

Only defend yourself so you can go around converting non believers ? Yea because there is nothing more to life !! ...Now I have read everything lol

[Amalthe]

Only defend yourself so you can go around converting non believers ? Yea because there is nothing more to life !! ...Now I have read everything lol

For a true CHRISTIAN believer, there IS nothing more to life than to turn your enemies into friends. Sometimes you can do it by living an examplar life, but sometimes whene enemies coma upon you, keeping life is not possible. You have to make a choice for yourself, but I believe that you will know what to do when in such situation.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Amalthe

[Amalthe]

Just to make sure, basis of answer to the question "As a christian, when is ok to fight/ kill" should be based on teachings and doctrine of christianity. By no means if should apply to other religions, for they have different principles and teachings.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Amalthe

[Beckys_Mom]

For a true CHRISTIAN believer, there IS nothing more to life than to turn your enemies into friends.

That is sad ... If a person will only defend themselves just so they can go around converting.. then they have nothing more in their lives to live for..

I would hate to think that my life was that empty.. I am glad I have a lot more in my life to fight and live for..

[Amalthe]

That is sad ... If a person will only defend themselves just so they can go around converting.. then they have nothing more in their lives to live for..

I would hate to think that my life was that empty.. I am glad I have a lot more in my life to fight and live for..

I understand your perspective, since I was also once outside of christianity. However, have in mind that developing personal relationship with God fills that empiness completely, and then you can understand why early christians gladly gave their life for their beliefs. I believe that every christian hopes for normal life and that he doesn't want to get into opportunity to sacrifice his life for fellow human, but history shows us that when times come, people show their true heart.

[Etu Malku]

Who told you god was any of those things? And why on earth did you believe them ?

That best seller the Christian bible says so . . . jeez, read your own scripture will ya

Matthew 19:26

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Genesis 17:1

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Job 42:2

I know that thou canst do everything, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

Jeremiah 32:17,27

Ah Lord God! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Luke 1:37

For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Revelation 19:6

And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

[Beckys_Mom]

I understand your perspective, since I was also once outside of christianity.

It has nothing to do with being outside your religion.. There are many christians who value their faith, but they would not think - The only reason to defend themselves is just so they can convert non believers, they value their loved ones and they have more in their lives to live for

I feel sorry for anyone that has nothing in their lives to want to live for other than converting people. ... that is truly sad...

Edited November 6, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Amalthe]

It has nothing to do with being outside your religion.. There are many christians who value their faith, but they would not think - The only reason to defend themselves is just so they can convert non believers, they value their loved ones and they have more in their lives to live for

I feel sorry for anyone that has nothing in their lives to want to live for other than converting people. ... that is truly sad...

That's strange... i never said that is the ONLY reason, yet you keep repeating that statement. Maybe you have a point, because my words sound too fanatical, I didn't verbalize my thought correctly. So i would like to quote some Bible verses to explain.

Jesus gave specific request to his followers:

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

This is important because God wants everyone to be saved if possible. So if you have a brother who is not saved, if you love him, wouldn't best thing you could do is to save him?

No greater love therefore is:

John 15:13 There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends.

So with friend is it easy because you care for them, But what about enemies?

Matt 5:44-46 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. ...

If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

My point was: for a christian there are many things that you can do to enjoy and have a fruitfull life that pleases God, and those things would give you reasons to defend yourself, and that's OK. But converting enemies into your brothers is most PERFECT, greatest achievement you can do as a christian, may it be by living or by dying.

[King Fluffs]

I guess if your life is in danger, then it's okay.

[Beckys_Mom]

That's strange... i never said that is the ONLY reason

although you could defend, you might make enough impression on him to convert him to Christianity. such things happened in history. And turning enemy into a fellow believer is greatest achievement a Christian can do. However, if attacker is trying to take your life, consider that by dying you might be passing future opportunities to do good and convert more unbelievers into Christians, so you should protect your life.

Was the only one you posted...

[Amalthe]

Fair enough, I was too rash to post my thoughts and didn't bother to write more explanations in order to keep post short and simple. Thank you for pointing that out

[Mr Walker]

That best seller the Christian bible says so . . . jeez, read your own scripture will ya

Matthew 19:26

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Genesis 17:1

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Job 42:2

I know that thou canst do everything, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

Jeremiah 32:17,27

Ah Lord God! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Luke 1:37

For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Revelation 19:6

And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

OH! i apologise. I hadn't realised you were a bible literalist and believer. I must admit I am not. While some biblical writers claim that god is omniscient and omnipotent, the actions of god, as described by those same writers in their narratives, very clearly illustrate that he is not.

But i dont wish to disabuse you of your christian beliefs.

Er!! You are NOT a biblical literalist and believer? Then i ask again, "Why do you believe god is (or has to be) omniscient and omnipotent?"

Edited November 7, 2012 by Mr Walker

[Etu Malku]

OH! i apologise. I hadn't realised you were a bible literalist and believer. I must admit I am not. While some biblical writers claim that god is omniscient and omnipotent, the actions of god, as described by those same writers in their narratives, very clearly illustrate that he is not.

But i dont wish to disabuse you of your christian beliefs.

Er!! You are NOT a biblical literalist and believer? Then i ask again, "Why do you believe god is (or has to be) omniscient and omnipotent?"

He he he. . . just being naughty! I don't believe in gods.

[Bluefinger]

I am a self described Christian and I am often called a war monger for pointing out the logic of self defense in situations where to refrain would mean personal destruction. So I wonder what you folks think the responsibility of a Christian is in this area? Is it EVER acceptable?

Christ taught not to return evil with evil, not to live by the sword, and to turn the other cheek. The early church fathers lived by those teachings and took them seriously. When they were robbed, they would not report it to the soldiers. When they were taken up to be killed for their beliefs, that praised God and encouraged each other, thinking that martyrdom brought them the closest to the life of Christ as one could come.

I agree, it's a hard thing to accept. But I'll try my darnedest.

[WoIverine]

In situations like that, even though I identify as Christian and hold to the majority of principles and beliefs, God has also given me common sense enough to protect myself and my family. Greater good can be achieved by safeguarding yourself, your family, continuing to live on and help others. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs, that's life.

Edited November 9, 2012 by WoIverine

[Beckys_Mom]

In situations like that, even though I identify as Christian and hold to the majority of principles and beliefs, God has also given me common sense enough to protect myself and my family. Greater good can be achieved by safeguarding yourself, your family, continuing to live on and help others. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs, that's life.

Well said and might I add - Good for you

[araxia]

Any fighting or killing is abominable before God according to Christ's New Testament and Gospel of Love and Peace... Turning the other cheek etc... Giving them what they want even if it be the clothes on your back... Thus even your life because all they can TAKE is your life and physical body since the spirit is eternal.

BUT in reality it does NOT work that way and we all have to become demons to survive... Kicking and sratching, fighting each other to stay on top, or just stay breathing...

Actually the Bible tells us Suicide is OKAY, like Jesus becoming a martyr and dying for people, letting them trample all over him until he finally gave in and surrendered to them...

But what if suicide is NOT OKAY? I read about spiritual contracts you make before you incarnate, if the contract gets breached before it gets fulfilled due to a weak you opting out before your time helping yourself out of life, you have to come back to this sh!xt hole and do it all over again... From scratch...until you get it right and learn to fight, survive, kicking to the very end.

Chew on that for a while.

Truly I think spirituality is messed up, like religion, like this world... Their rules always contradict each other.... The bible want us to become angels and die in the name of good, let people kill us like jesus, and let us still love them to the end and let them bleed us dry... But spirituality says we MUST FIGHT.....until the very end and maybe become monsters in the end if only we fulfill the contract we made with the Gate Keeper.

Which is odd since in some places the Bible also encourages us to not let the darkness win, but Jesus' love and peace, and turn the other cheek stuff is just too soft.

Why would you keep fighting? For love? But what if love demands a surrender and don't wish people to become MONSTERS by putting it forth?

Love in Bible terms is bloody overrated.

[Beckys_Mom]

Actually the Bible tells us Suicide is OKAY, like Jesus becoming a martyr and dying for people, letting them trample all over him until he finally gave in and surrendered to them...

Jesus dying for their sins on the cross was not suicide ...you numpty lol

Edited November 14, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[araxia]

In situations like that, even though I identify as Christian and hold to the majority of principles and beliefs, God has also given me common sense enough to protect myself and my family. Greater good can be achieved by safeguarding yourself, your family, continuing to live on and help others. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs, that's life.

I guess that depends on how quickly you want to see God or heaven? If you want to remain in hell called earth you would continue to fight to survive... What is real life this one in flesh (temporary existence) or the eternal life of the spirit? People are afraid of immortality, they usually are the most greedy SOBs you'll get in life... They fight for their little life in flesh as if it is all they have and when it is gone they will be doomed and have nothing left to "live" for. Chew on that... La la la

[araxia]

Jesus dying for their sins on the cross was not suicide ...you numpty lol

What is a numpty? Just like turning the other cheek is NOT suicide and you willfully get stoned to death because jesus said "take it like a man"! Whatever!

[ColoradoParanormal]

I am a self described Christian and I am often called a war monger for pointing out the logic of self defense in situations where to refrain would mean personal destruction. So I wonder what you folks think the responsibility of a Christian is in this area? Is it EVER acceptable?

I too subscribe to the beliefs of the bible and Christianity. I also have devoted my life to serving my country and the freedoms of the people in it. I have killed and done things that most would call "Un-Christian." I had fought these types of thoughts and feelings in my earlier days. Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” Obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

Jesus’ second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war “with justice” (v. 11). It’s going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20).

It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more “just” than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).

Hope that helped.

[Beckys_Mom]

What is a numpty? Just like turning the other cheek is NOT suicide and you willfully get stoned to death because jesus said "take it like a man"! Whatever!

Numpty is fun slang for fool. It is not as rude and not meant to be lol.. Christians see it another way..They see Jesus as one who gave is life for them, to save them .. I see it as ..Jesus didn't give himself over, he had no choice.. he was sentenced to death..

[GoldenWolf]

I see it as ..Jesus didn't give himself over, he had no choice.. he was sentenced to death..

Exactly, he was condemned to death.

[Setton]

Numpty is fun slang for fool. It is not as rude and not meant to be lol.. Christians see it another way..They see Jesus as one who gave is life for them, to save them .. I see it as ..Jesus didn't give himself over, he had no choice.. he was sentenced to death..

Although to be fair, he is supposed to have gone peacefully rather than letting his disciples protect him or just not going to Jerusalem.