seeking8 Posted October 25, 2012 #1 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Hello Just would like to explore the red Indians beliefs and if they still practice? also would love to learn something about their culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keel M. Posted October 25, 2012 #2 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Do you mean the Native Americans here in the United States? Or do you mean the peoples who are native to India? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking8 Posted October 25, 2012 Author #3 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Do you mean the Native Americans here in the United States? Or do you mean the peoples who are native to India? I meant Native Americans sorry I am still learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beany Posted October 25, 2012 #4 Share Posted October 25, 2012 That's a huge topic! My favorite book about their spiritual traditions is Frank Fool's Crow: Wisdom and Power. His nephew, Ed McGaa, has also written some great books. And Frank Water's has written a series of books about the Hopi prophecies that are very readable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking8 Posted October 25, 2012 Author #5 Share Posted October 25, 2012 That's a huge topic! My favorite book about their spiritual traditions is Frank Fool's Crow: Wisdom and Power. His nephew, Ed McGaa, has also written some great books. And Frank Water's has written a series of books about the Hopi prophecies that are very readable. Thank you so much I shall look these books up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarakore Posted October 25, 2012 #6 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Don't forget about the Yaqui, Zuni, Apache. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhen Posted October 25, 2012 #7 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Hello Just would like to explore the red Indians beliefs and if they still practice? also would love to learn something about their culture What interests you specifically in Native spirituality? There are many aspects, some of which are no longer practiced (because they are illegal). Native believed you could gain power by consuming pieces of human organs and flesh (the heart especially). You could also gain power just by obtaining a piece of your enemy (scalps). And of course it was customary to inflect cruel tortures on their helpless prisoners. Is this the kind of info you wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk 56 Posted October 25, 2012 #8 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Hi Redhen, When two races want the same land, then there is always war, it wasn't only the American Tribes that scalped people! http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/hns/scalpin/oldfolks.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted October 25, 2012 #9 Share Posted October 25, 2012 What interests you specifically in Native spirituality? There are many aspects, some of which are no longer practiced (because they are illegal). Native believed you could gain power by consuming pieces of human organs and flesh (the heart especially). You could also gain power just by obtaining a piece of your enemy (scalps). And of course it was customary to inflect cruel tortures on their helpless prisoners. Is this the kind of info you wanted? To be fair, scalping was rarely practiced among Native Americans until the Europeans arrived. Even after their arrival, it was mainly the Europeans doing the scalping and encouraging it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post the eternal me Posted October 25, 2012 Popular Post #10 Share Posted October 25, 2012 What interests you specifically in Native spirituality? There are many aspects, some of which are no longer practiced (because they are illegal). Native believed you could gain power by consuming pieces of human organs and flesh (the heart especially). You could also gain power just by obtaining a piece of your enemy (scalps). And of course it was customary to inflect cruel tortures on their helpless prisoners. Is this the kind of info you wanted? wow...... holy crap.... what to say to this.... being of native decent i see a lot of misinformation in this.... gaining power by consuming human organs? where did you get this idea? uh.... read your history..... scalping was started by the Dutch.... the reason it was started was as a proof for a bounty when the US govt put a price on the heads of all natives.... a piece of the scalp was used as proof that the native was killed...... so the reward could be collected.... um... inflicting cruel tortures on the helpless prisoners was not a practice that was of any tribe.... that was something the settlers brought.... when the settlers arrived on the shores of north America... they found many peoples and cultures living in harmony... there were feuds between some of the tribes.... but where in the world is there no conflict? a lot of the beliefs of the common person holds today are the result of propaganda that still persists... Hollywood movies and left over ways of thinking from the extermination of the native peoples runs amok still... as in the harsh bias in your post.... as for the consuming of organs like the heart.... that was done while hunting..... and not done to humans... if you look at the innuit.... very little plant matter in the environment... yet they were healthy.... the raw meat and blubber is loaded with vitamins and nutrients.... calcium and all the necessities for a healthy body... so the evolution of these peoples was in the environment... on the hunt... when an animal was killed... the heart is full of nutrients... thus the consumption of it was a matter of hunger... the rest of the meat was taken back to feed the village... and there is the fundamental difference in what most people have no understanding of.... the village and everyone in it, is family.... this is a concept that a lot of people have a really hard time grasping... i don’t look at a stranger as a friend i haven’t met yet... i see a stranger as a cousin that i haven’t got to know yet.... when i see a person of native decent... it is very much an aspect of a huge percentage of the population of this demographic are my cousins... the numbers of us before settlers showed up was in the millions.... enough so that a govt was in place.... do you think the differences in the US govt from the rest of the govt's in the world is because the settlers were so smart? no.... it was modelled after the govt that was in place when they arrived.... the first settlers that came over were people that were given the option to either move to this new land and make a new start... or rot in prison..... so many many many of the first settlers that arrived were criminals... before the relocation of these peoples to the "new land" ... there were a lot of actions by the settler and the governing bodies (corporate interests) to try and screw the population out of what they had... resources and lands.... by means of trickery and deception.... and there were many troubles they brought with them... for one man to stand in the middle of a large field and say "this land is mine" .... for the most part is folly... the land was here before you were... and will be here after you are gone.... how can you say "mine"? unless you have the agreement of the people around you that it is yours.... the population didn’t understand this concept... and the harsh retribution on a people that have always lived off the land in these parts was dealt with harshly... hunting.... gathering in areas they had always done these in were made "illegal" ... so escalating conflicts started to arise.... when the population of the natives were saying... cousin... friend.... why do you have a problem with how we have lived... the land and what is on it is for all to share..... the settlers were saying "you must be punished for this crime" .... the legal system that was brought over was already heavily influenced by the church... and torture and punishment of death was common practice... another concept that was unknown to the indigenous peoples.... so there was a rise in the people to deal with the problem of how these people thought.... try and educate them to understand.... but .... a war was declared in the budding united states... and then there is the problem of the differences in the way they thought.... for the settlers that came over... the concept of war went like this.... someone is coming after you to shoot you..... you shoot them.... they fall down and run away.... or get carried away... they are out of the fight... easy.... the problem with the native warriors.... they had no fear of death.... so ... one is coming at you with a weapon.... you shoot them..... they are still coming.... you shoot them again.... they are still coming... unless you get a fatal hit.... this warrior is not going to stop.... he will keep going until he cant fight.... major problem for the budding army... and the reason the army was formed in the first place... a police force to uphold foreign laws on a people that have never had anything of the sort... not to say it was lawless.... far from it..... there were many missionaries that wrote in their logs about how "Christian" the native population was.... a population governed by a concept of right and wrong.... and having a higher goal of peace amongst all peoples.... everybody had the responsibility of keeping the peace... there was no police needed... anyhow..... so these settlers that were charged with fighting these warriors were deathly afraid of them.... big problem..... what to do..... the Spanish had tried to settle... and because of the same problems got their asses handed to them... and got evicted..... so in comes the concept of handing out blankets with a disease that the native population had no immunity to.... small pox..... small pox wiped out a population millions ... and brought the numbers down to thousands.... so many families and entire tribes.... communities and even cities (in another concept of cities) were gone..... once the numbers were down to manageable levels..... then the process of exterminating the remainder of them began.... war..... torture.... bounties.... all things brought upon a peoples that had lost their families and ways of life.... how far did these people have to be beat down? well the concept was to make them extinct..... and even after all of this...... the native population still says.... we should live in peace..... that way of thinking.... that mentality is what has not died.... you are not a friend i haven’t met yet.... your my cousin i haven’t had the time with to get to know.... why is the mentality of the native peoples being barbaric still around? when the barbarians were the ones who came on boats? ..... every concept of what a barbarian is.... is what was imported to this land..... 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the eternal me Posted October 25, 2012 #11 Share Posted October 25, 2012 to clarify on a point..... history is written by the victors.... the history of the native population is handed down to the next generation... passed from mother to daughter... father to son.... i know much from my background (as with any native) that you wont find in any history books... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking8 Posted October 25, 2012 Author #12 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I like to learn new things thats why I am looking for information. I am drawn to this subject of native Americans because I have had dreams about them. I would like to learn about their beliefs :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted October 26, 2012 #13 Share Posted October 26, 2012 There's a book called Native American Myths and Legends. It's a decent, accessible introduction to many beliefs and a very good read. I'll look the author's name up while I'm home this weekend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGIONS Posted October 26, 2012 #14 Share Posted October 26, 2012 a six gun in one hand and a bible in the other justifying rape, murder and mayhem was kinda sorta maybe confusing to the kin folk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk 56 Posted October 26, 2012 #15 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi seeking8, I see you come from London, which is where i live as well, welcome to the forum. As far as Cherokee beliefs i would contact the Cherokee Phoenix newspaper first established in 1828, links below:- http://www.cherokeephoenix.org/ History of paper below:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_Phoenix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted October 26, 2012 #16 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) I like to learn new things thats why I am looking for information. I am drawn to this subject of native Americans because I have had dreams about them. I would like to learn about their beliefs :-) Up here (Canada), they're called the 'First Nations', because they were largely 'nations'. A Haida has nothing in common to a Huron, nor an Inuit to an Incan. In the 'new' world there was at least a thousand separate cultures and linguistic groups before my 'explorer' ancestors set foot here. You think that Europe is a patchwork? Seeking8, if you're asking a question about their belief system you're going to have narrow your focus. Edit to add: From my neck of the woods, a short novel that captures some of their belief system (and a clash of cultures) is 'I Heard the Owl Call My Name', by Margaret Craven. Edited October 26, 2012 by Likely Guy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk 56 Posted October 26, 2012 #17 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Good stuff Likely Guy, As an astronomer, i'm interested in American Indian Starlore, especially about the Canoe Race, belief of Chinook Tribe and Two Dogs belief of the Cherokee tribe which is about the Dog Star Sirius! Link below:- http://www.wwu.edu/skywise/legends.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhen Posted October 26, 2012 #18 Share Posted October 26, 2012 wow...... holy crap.... what to say to this.... being of native decent i see a lot of misinformation in this.... I am a status Native too. The point is irrelevant. gaining power by consuming human organs?where did you get this idea? Ritual cannibalism was common. I did a quick search, here's the first book result; uh.... read your history.....scalping was started by the Dutch.... the reason it was started was as a proof for a bounty when the US govt put a price on the heads of all natives.... a piece of the scalp was used as proof that the native was killed...... so the reward could be collected.... Not so. From wiki; "Archaeological excavations revealed about 486 skeletons within a fortification ditch on the periphery of the habitation area. The site represents the Initial Coalescent period and dates to about 1325. P. Willey's analysis revealed that 90% of the individuals had cut marks characteristic of scalping."[8]"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping (emphasis mine) I believe the OP is thinking of North American Indians, so I'll leave out the even more gruesome practices of the Central and South American Indians. History is not always written by the victors, sometimes it's engraved in stone by the losers. Aztec rituals come to minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk 56 Posted October 26, 2012 #19 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi seeking8, The hohokam tribe is interesting for astronomical observations, they marked off the Equinox and Solstice by the "Hole in the Rock" near Phoenix, links below:- http://www.arizona-leisure.com/papago-park-hiking.html http://www.zullophoto.com/2199.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted October 26, 2012 #20 Share Posted October 26, 2012 If you want to learn about Native people the best way is to go the tribal websites. They all maintain one. The tricky part there is a lot of BS out there. New Age people who peddle pseudo Native American beliefs. There are more of them than Natives who active in the culture. The native peoples of the Americas were like people everywhere, some things they did weren't so good and some things were great. I once read something about any culture, 10% of the people work to maintain the culture, the rest are waiting for Mc Donalds to appear on the corner. Good luck. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarakore Posted October 26, 2012 #21 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Up here (Canada), they're called the 'First Nations', because they were largely 'nations'. A Haida has nothing in common to a Huron, nor an Inuit to an Incan. In the 'new' world there was at least a thousand separate cultures and linguistic groups before my 'explorer' ancestors set foot here. You think that Europe is a patchwork? Seeking8, if you're asking a question about their belief system you're going to have narrow your focus. Edit to add: From my neck of the woods, a short novel that captures some of their belief system (and a clash of cultures) is 'I Heard the Owl Call My Name', by Margaret Craven. I am a status Native too. The point is irrelevant. Ritual cannibalism was common. I did a quick search, here's the first book result; Not so. From wiki; "Archaeological excavations revealed about 486 skeletons within a fortification ditch on the periphery of the habitation area. The site represents the Initial Coalescent period and dates to about 1325. P. Willey's analysis revealed that 90% of the individuals had cut marks characteristic of scalping."[8]"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping (emphasis mine) I believe the OP is thinking of North American Indians, so I'll leave out the even more gruesome practices of the Central and South American Indians. History is not always written by the victors, sometimes it's engraved in stone by the losers. Aztec rituals come to minds. The Aztec are classified as being North American. The Maya on the other hand are not. The Aztec language is part of the Uto-Aztecan language family. Comanche and Shoshone are both part of that same family. Comanche are actually Shoshone who decided to get horses. Hopi is also within the Uto-Aztecan family. So there, not all the tribes were distant and remote, many spoke similar languages, trade networks existed, as did nations. The myth is that all the Native Americans were independent and unique tribes who were constantly at war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted October 26, 2012 #22 Share Posted October 26, 2012 a six gun in one hand and a bible in the other justifying rape, murder and mayhem was kinda sorta maybe confusing to the kin folk It's not that hard to understand. While there is as much lore between groups as there are other religions. The common theme is that there is a spirit that exists in all things. We are related to everything and everyone, and the great spirit ( Wakan Tanka or the great mystery for the sioux ) resides in everything. There are spirits that are aspects of Wakan Tanka and a spirit world that underlys the physical. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted October 26, 2012 #23 Share Posted October 26, 2012 What interests you specifically in Native spirituality? There are many aspects, some of which are no longer practiced (because they are illegal). Native believed you could gain power by consuming pieces of human organs and flesh (the heart especially). You could also gain power just by obtaining a piece of your enemy (scalps). And of course it was customary to inflect cruel tortures on their helpless prisoners. Is this the kind of info you wanted? You are severely misinformed. This is pure propiganda. Native life had its standard human issues, but this crap probably comes from some sort of extreme white apologist rhetoric. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhen Posted October 26, 2012 #24 Share Posted October 26, 2012 You are severely misinformed. This is pure propiganda. Native life had its standard human issues, but this crap probably comes from some sort of extreme white apologist rhetoric. My great-great-great grandfather was a war chief in the war of 1812. In that war he is documented to have eaten a heart from a Yankee he had killed. Native Americans historically have had problem with causation. They believed they could garner strength or power by consuming certain animals or sometimes people. That this kind of ritual cannibalism occurred is a fact, and it is indisputable. They also ascribed mental states (i.e. anger) to natural phenomenon. This is common in primitive cultures. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted October 26, 2012 #25 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) My great-great-great grandfather was a war chief in the war of 1812. In that war he is documented to have eaten a heart from a Yankee he had killed. Native Americans historically have had problem with causation. They believed they could garner strength or power by consuming certain animals or sometimes people. That this kind of ritual cannibalism occurred is a fact, and it is indisputable. They also ascribed mental states (i.e. anger) to natural phenomenon. This is common in primitive cultures. . Please... anything that happened and beliefs during war do not reflect the populace anymore than guys in Vietnam keeping ears do for the rest of us, or that white people comitted genicide against the NA so that makes the white culture genocidal. Yes, consuming animials will give you power for battle... In fact it's a necessity. It's called eating Spend some more time in the books my friend I recommend "ishi in tow worlds". A native culture straight from the horses mouth. Edited October 26, 2012 by Seeker79 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now