Sakari Posted July 6, 2014 #451 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Yes I was serious about what you have read. If you're willing to search, I'd be interested in what you read on breeding populations. http://www.planta.cn/forum/files_planta/1452_1197363256.pdf_132.pdf There is a start. A lot of what I started to search for was about the " lochness Monster " ...years ago.......That is where I started reading on " breeding populations ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenceMinisterMishkin Posted July 6, 2014 #452 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I guess it's possible in remote areas Never say never.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted July 6, 2014 #453 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I guess it's possible in remote areas What remote areas? We mowed down nearly all of the forests around the PNW at one point. We've had gigantic fires destroy a large percentage of the forests over the past century. A rare species like Bigfoot would have been seen a lot more often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 7, 2014 #454 Share Posted July 7, 2014 That I agree with. It is what it is. A story about an animal that has not been proven to exist. An animal which leaves no carcasses. An animal that cannot be photographed clearly. An animal intelligent enough to stay hidden yet makes loud noises and slowly walks out in the open. An animal who survives without leaving a mark of its existance on the ecosystem. You cannot blame those who require evidence before believing. Do you believe in the Loch Ness Monster or would you require evidence of such a beast? How about the various dinosaurs said to exist in different rain forests? Aliens visiting Earth? .. . and, an animal that can't be trapped or captured, an animal that cannot be shot at or hunted with a bow/arrow as Indians who claim of BF's existence for 50,000 years could have done, .... etc, Many evidences of BF *exist*, but it is impossible many times to prove a negative, which means in this case, there are no evidences that show bigfoot does *not* exist - except for fictitious arguments that *always* give BF only the powers/abilities of known species. Face it, if that animal is real, we know *nothing* about it. And if it had the ability to transcend dimensions, as some American Indians think, then what? Your arguments then go right out the window. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 7, 2014 #455 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) It exists. I've seen it. I've even seen the rare green Jello with chunks of fruit inside. Unfortunately the peat makes Loch Ness so murky that the limited light makes for very little plankton. I had put you far from the middle based off of a couple of your comments like - I believe everything is as likely as it is unlikely. There are some on here who believe everything until you prove to them it doesn't exist. Oh, sure, sure! I've heard these arguments made by you conspiracy theorists before! If you can't take pictures of it or capture it, I don't believe it! The very thought. *green* jello! Huh! j/k lol Edited July 7, 2014 by Earl.Of.Trumps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted July 7, 2014 #456 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) ndians who claim of BF's existence for 50,000 years could have done, .... etc, And if it had the ability to transcend dimensions, as some American Indians think, then what? The claims about American Indians claiming Bigfoot has existed is false. Made up by the " white man "......It is not true. Including the American Indians thinking " it " can transcend demensions. None of that is true. You will only find that information on the Bigfoot sights, and from Bigfoot believers. Trying to make it real, to back up there claims. And, that has been discussed thouroughly also....With links. Before you ask......Here is plenty. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=104878 Edited July 7, 2014 by Sakari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted July 7, 2014 #457 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) P.S. The name " Sausquatch " was made up in 1920....Give or take a couple years. Was never even a Indian name for a Bigfoot. J. W. Burns .....Inventor of Sausquatch. Edited July 7, 2014 by Sakari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 7, 2014 #458 Share Posted July 7, 2014 The claims about American Indians claiming Bigfoot has existed is false. Made up by the " white man "......It is not true. Including the American Indians thinking " it " can transcend demensions. None of that is true. You will only find that information on the Bigfoot sights, and from Bigfoot believers. Trying to make it real, to back up there claims. And, that has been discussed thouroughly also....With links. Before you ask......Here is plenty. http://forums.randi....ad.php?t=104878 Let see if I have this right, Sakari. The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out. Here's Kathy: (emphasis added) Originally Posted by Hairy Man I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred: Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster Creeks - Honka - Hairy man Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is. ------- Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred' Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster". You Ok, man? I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts? Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something? I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted July 7, 2014 #459 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Let see if I have this right, Sakari. The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out. Here's Kathy: (emphasis added) Originally Posted by Hairy Man I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred: Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster Creeks - Honka - Hairy man Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is. ------- Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred' Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster". You Ok, man? I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts? Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something? I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol I new there was a reason I had you on ignore... That link said " just a start "... Sure, send me links that show Indians believe in Bigfoot, the same one the white man invented.....And no links from Bigfoot or Crypto sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 7, 2014 #460 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I was under the impression that many Native American groups did have a wild man myth. Even Piney (Who is NA from New Jersey) has said so on these forums, IIRC. Is this a Bigfoot site or a Native American site? http://www.native-languages.org/legends-bigfoot.htm Ba'wis (Tsimshian Indian Bigfoot) Boqs (Bella Coola Bigfoot) Bush Indians (Alaskan Athabaskan Bigfoot) Chiye-Tanka (Sioux Indian Bigfoot) Choanito/Night People (Wenatchi Indian Bigfoot) Hairy Man (Yokuts Indian Bigfoot) Kohuneje (Maidu Indian Bigfoot) Lariyin (Dogrib Indian Bigfoot) Lofa (Chickasaw Indian Bigfoot) Matah Kagmi (Modoc Indian Bigfoot) Maxemista (Cheyenne Indian Bigfoot) Na'in (Gwich'in Indian Bigfoot) Nakani (Dene Indian Bigfoot) Nant'ina (Tanaina Indian Bigfoot) Nik'inla'eena' (Koyukon Indian Bigfoot) Omah (Hupa Indian Bigfoot) Sasquatch (Coast Salish Indian Bigfoot) Seeahtlk (Clallam Indian Bigfoot) Shampe (Choctaw Indian Bigfoot) Siatco (Chehalis Indian Bigfoot) Skookum (Chinook Indian Bigfoot) Ste-ye-hah'mah (Yakama Indian Bigfoot) Stick Indians (Northwest Coast Bigfeet) The Woodsman (Athabaskan Indian Bigfoot) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 7, 2014 #461 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I don't know much about the Northwest Coast stuff but I'm familiar with the Coastal Algonquian "Game Guardian" legends. The John White watercolors show the Rappahannock or Palmunky ceremony with the masks on poles. He also portrays a Chawanoc (Eastern Shawnee) village with the dance circle. The Lenape called him the Mii'singk haliikan or "Living Stone Face" he is portrayed as hairy but not really big. I was taught that he was real and was probably the basis for the Jersey Devil legend ( the "Devil Dance" as recorded by early settlers) As for the real Bigfoot, My father, uncle and myself had experiences while bushwacking but there is no sense discussing them here because I can't prove or disprove it. Lapiche From the thread.... Bigfoot, just a mythical creature, or real? (2010) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted July 7, 2014 #462 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I was under the impression that many Native American groups did have a wild man myth. Even Piney (Who is NA from New Jersey) has said so on these forums, IIRC. Is this a Bigfoot site or a Native American site? http://www.native-la...nds-bigfoot.htm Diechecker.... Copy / paste those names, one at a time into google.... Tell me what sites come up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted July 7, 2014 #463 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Let see if I have this right, Sakari. The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out. Here's Kathy: (emphasis added) Originally Posted by Hairy Man I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred: Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster Creeks - Honka - Hairy man Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is. ------- Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred' Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster". You Ok, man? I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts? Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something? I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol I new there was a reason I had you on ignore... Earl of trumps....Never had you on ignore, thought you were the dude with the three toes as an avatar.....My bad. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 7, 2014 #464 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Let see if I have this right, Sakari. The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out. Here's Kathy: (emphasis added) Originally Posted by Hairy Man I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred: Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster Creeks - Honka - Hairy man Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is. ------- Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred' Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster". You Ok, man? I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts? Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something? I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol Every culture has it's own bogeyman. None of the tribes Lewis and Clark encountered warned them about bigfoot. They did warn them about Grizzly Bears. They shook that warning off thinking they could handle them, they had the most modern weapons, so no problem. After a few encounters with Brown Bears their confidence was shaken because they were so hard to kill. They'd hit'em with five, six, seven shots, some through the heart some through the brain and they'd just keep coming after them. A griz ran one party into the river, another ran some men up a tree. Finally, in one of the journals Clark writes; "I believe the curiosity of the men in respect to this animal is pretty much satisfied." However, No bigfoot, or mention of bigfoot was ever encountered on the expedition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassekoe99 Posted July 8, 2014 #465 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I would like to think BF is real. It's a possibility, just like anything else. How many new species of animals do we discover every year that were in plain sight? But then things happen to make me a skeptic. I was camping with my horses this past weekend in the Uwharrie National Forest where there have been many "BF encounters". I'm sitting at camp one night and the neighbor in the woods somewhere has a mule who starts to bray. Holy crap it sounded like a Sasquatch! Then a mule from the other side of camp in the distance brays back. So next time you BF hunters are in Uwharrie and you hear that BF calling It's probably just the mule at site 12 calling out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 8, 2014 #466 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I would like to think BF is real. It's a possibility, just like anything else. How many new species of animals do we discover every year that were in plain sight? But then things happen to make me a skeptic. I was camping with my horses this past weekend in the Uwharrie National Forest where there have been many "BF encounters". I'm sitting at camp one night and the neighbor in the woods somewhere has a mule who starts to bray. Holy crap it sounded like a Sasquatch! Then a mule from the other side of camp in the distance brays back. So next time you BF hunters are in Uwharrie and you hear that BF calling It's probably just the mule at site 12 calling out. Thanks for your candor. I broke out laughing when I got to it sounded like a sasquatch! No one knows what bigfoot sounds like, so any strange noise to a bird of passage or other tenderfoot could be interpreted as a hairy eight foot cryptid. A howler monkey's cry would totally freak people out if played in the woods! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 8, 2014 #467 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I new there was a reason I had you on ignore... That link said " just a start "... Sure, send me links that show Indians believe in Bigfoot, the same one the white man invented.....And no links from Bigfoot or Crypto sites. The "white man" invented an all encompassing name, not the creature. that's all. Indians did not have a common name because they had no way to communicate 30,000 years ago or so. We could be talking apples and oranges here. If in your mind not having a common name means they do not have the same belief, then fine. In my mind they have a similar belief, just a name for their BF in their own tongue. that's all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 8, 2014 #468 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Diechecker.... Copy / paste those names, one at a time into google.... Tell me what sites come up? You did not answer my question. Is the site I posted a fringe site or actual NA site? Are going to say Piney is a liar also? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanity Posted July 8, 2014 #469 Share Posted July 8, 2014 http://www.planta.cn/forum/files_planta/1452_1197363256.pdf_132.pdf There is a start. A lot of what I started to search for was about the " lochness Monster " ...years ago.......That is where I started reading on " breeding populations ". How did this article contribute to your conclusion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 8, 2014 #470 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I don't doubt that some tribes had names for a scary, hairy humanoid. Just like our boogeyman. They also had numerous other creatures in their lore. Cannibal dwarfs, mer-men, skin walkers, owl lady's and flying heads are just a few. I just do not find these stories evidence of bigfoots existence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDJ Posted July 8, 2014 #471 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Nothing is certain.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 8, 2014 #472 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Here is a really decent article showing the various tribal beliefs of a BF-like creature throughout the US. http://www.bfro.net/legends/index.htm Pre-Columbian and Early American Legends of Bigfoot-like Beings Gulf Algonkian Keres Penutian Yukian Chimakuan Hokan-Coahiltecan Tonkawa Karankawa Kuteni Iroquoian Wakashan Timucua Tanoan Aztec-Ianoan Caddoan Siouan-Yuchi Salish Home Page Introduction (From : Traditional Attitudes Toward Bigfoot in Many North American Cultures, By Gayle Highpine) It is crystal clear that most NA Indian tribes have some kind of belief in the Big Hairy Man. They may all have their own name in their own tongue, but it is crystal clear they have had their beliefs in the big hairy man going way back in time, long before the white european settlers got here. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 8, 2014 #473 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I don't doubt that some tribes had names for a scary, hairy humanoid. Just like our boogeyman. They also had numerous other creatures in their lore. Cannibal dwarfs, mer-men, skin walkers, owl lady's and flying heads are just a few. I just do not find these stories evidence of bigfoots existence. Not a problem, I understand. I was never trying to use the existence of Indian beliefs in BF as proof that BF exists. Sakari claims the Indians do not have a belief in BF, - although, I don't know why he says that, and all I posted were informations to show he is wrong, most Indian tribes do have their oral tradition expressing their belief in a big hairy man. Nothing could be clearer. There are several links of learned researchers giving their findings of the North American Indian beliefs in a BF like creature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 8, 2014 #474 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Here is a really decent article showing the various tribal beliefs of a BF-like creature throughout the US. http://www.bfro.net/legends/index.htm The problem with that article will be that it is posted at BFRO.net. Just like if you link to an article about how a comet wiped out the dinosaurs on a creationist website, people will dismiss it due to the linked source, regardless of the original source. Edited July 8, 2014 by DieChecker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted July 8, 2014 #475 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I would like to think BF is real. It's a possibility, just like anything else. How many new species of animals do we discover every year that were in plain sight? That are 6 to 8 feet tall and weigh up to 800 lbs?.......And in civilized/populated areas? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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