Anders Breivik decries 'inhumane' prison

[Mr Right Wing 576]

So you think Breivik was correct in something but wrong about massacring unarmed kids...

Digression: unarmed, Jesus, kids, Christ, couldn’t he storm a mosque full of grown up men and women? There would be at least one person that would manage to keep their presence of mind and whack the psycho over his plastic surgery altered head.

So he went for kids, damn coward that he is.

Kids that might have become politicians? Sure. But what did he know what their political inclination would be later in life? Was he also psychic besides psychotic? Exposure to certain ideology in your youth sometimes results in rabidly contrasted views later in life. Just saying, in case some other idiot like him is reading this.

Back to you.

This what you claim to be correct is not democratic.

The reason why we don’t go around killing people we don’t like is not the democracy but the basic human compassion. Democracy is here today and tomorrow it might be lost, even through pristinely democratic process, due to Breivik fans being more diligent at voting than sane people.

If that happens, you will experience firsthand that what you claim to be correct.

Great, huh? There’s only one catch. They might not like you. Maybe your eyes won’t be blue enough, maybe you’ll fart during memorial service for Breivik. And then what? Will you die like Fegelein did, praising your führer that had you killed with your last breath? (Happened a lot in communism too, mostly to save your family from further persecution. Didn’t work. Only made you look really stupid to posterity.)

And the most important of all, the massacre Breivik committed was direct consequence of his ideology, his ideology put to practice, not some fringy “oopsy” detail. He didn’t spill a beer while leading a putsch, he killed 77 children.

Stop sugar coating the Breivik turd of ideology.

I hate socialism but I dont think killing its supporters is acceptable. Why?

1. I realise everybody has their own ideas about what is right.

2. I respect everyones right to make their own mind up and Democracy for all.

3. Just as I wouldnt like someone to come eliminate me for being a Conservative I dont think its acceptable eliminating them.

4. I dont have a mental illness such as narcissistic personality disorder where I think I have the right to take others lives.

Brevik has that dangerous mentality where if a guy cuts him off on the road he thinks its acceptable to go fill him full of lead. In essence it isnt ideology that made him do what he did its psychopathy. He has an abnormal way of thinking because most people have empathy towards others. And just for the record if David Cameron tried to establish himself as dictator I would oppose it despite having the same Conservative tendancy.

[Likely Guy 21,992]

I hate socialism but I dont think killing its supporters is acceptable. Why?

1. I realise everybody has their own ideas about what is right.

2. I respect everyones right to make their own mind up and Democracy for all.

3. Just as I wouldnt like someone to come eliminate me for being a Conservative I dont think its acceptable eliminating them.

4. I dont have a mental illness such as narcissistic personality disorder where I think I have the right to take others lives.

Brevik has that dangerous mentality where if a guy cuts him off on the road he thinks its acceptable to go fill him full of lead. In essence it isnt ideology that made him do what he did its psychopathy. He has an abnormal way of thinking because most people have empathy towards others.

So, you agree that Breivik was wrong; in his actions, mentality and his motives?

[JGirl 5,391]

You think I should be supportive of insecure sexual degenerates representing me by protesting in the street half naked like freaks?

no one should.

[JGirl 5,391]

yeah about that moisturizer...it's on back order.

geez

[Murenu 75]

no one should.

Well, I agree!

[Vlad the Mighty 36,575]

No not really. I think it is quite childish to think hating gay pride = hating gays. In any case, I don't feel the need to be associated with such degenerate crap, so I have a problem with gay pride.

You think I should be supportive of insecure sexual degenerates representing me by protesting in the street half naked like freaks?

Oh, I was referring to Breivik, not you. Though it is all a bit tiresome, i do agree with you.

[Murenu 75]

Oh, I was referring to Breivik, not you. Though it is all a bit tiresome, i do agree with you.

I don't really see any reason to think Breivik really hated gays - generally political extremists are bluntly honest about their views, or at the very least if he was willing to justify violence then I doubt he'd be unwilling to admit he hated homosexuals if he really did.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Gravitorbox

[Vlad the Mighty 36,575]

I don't really see any reason to think Breivik really hated gays - generally political extremists are bluntly honest about their views, or at the very least if he was willing to justify violence then I doubt he'd be unwilling to admit he hated homosexuals if he really did.

No, perhaps that was one of the lesser things he could be accused of. There were plenty of others, though.

[MarvelAtTheWords 379]

I wonder if Life in Prison for Anders will actually be seen as Punishment and a Deterrent to any future mass murders in Norway?

No. Why should it? It's comfy in our prisons.

He can complain all he wants. He should just be glad he never gets out. He wont live for a week if he does.

I haven't got words for what I feel for him and how I think he SHOULD have been punished. But we don't believe in that kind of stuff in Norway.

******* scumbag!!

So peace & love to you all! No matter what you did or planning to do :l

[Helen of Annoy 24,958]

I hate socialism but I dont think killing its supporters is acceptable. Why?

1. I realise everybody has their own ideas about what is right.

2. I respect everyones right to make their own mind up and Democracy for all.

3. Just as I wouldnt like someone to come eliminate me for being a Conservative I dont think its acceptable eliminating them.

4. I dont have a mental illness such as narcissistic personality disorder where I think I have the right to take others lives.

Brevik has that dangerous mentality where if a guy cuts him off on the road he thinks its acceptable to go fill him full of lead. In essence it isnt ideology that made him do what he did its psychopathy. He has an abnormal way of thinking because most people have empathy towards others. And just for the record if David Cameron tried to establish himself as dictator I would oppose it despite having the same Conservative tendancy.

Breivik obviously does have an abnormal way of thinking, but don’t you think it’s a little creepy to find yourself supporting the same ideology an abnormal thinking guy has produced?

I’m going full Godwin here, but you know who else was abnormal in his head and wrote lengthy manifesto in which he gave his view of ideal society?

The personality difference between Hitler and Breivik is that Hitler was better painter than Breivik.

The historic difference is that Breivik had no patience to wait for the right moment, which makes him even more unwise than Hitler, the avatar of wisdom absence.

Everything else is the same, including their insecurities about their own not-Arian-enough appearance.

From their own supremacist angle, in their own eyes, both were not fit to lead anything but boring lives of not good enough people. And that’s where all that abominable need for control comes from, and out of it, all the destruction.

So how can you approve of intolerant, totalitarian ideology and at the same time claim you don’t approve of its methods?

It’s like saying you approve of short haircuts, but you don’t approve cutting hair.

So, which is it? Short or long? Or you want it short but let someone else do the cutting and you’ll pretend you didn’t know it involves any scissors?

Grow a pair and admit you know exactly what you are supporting. Then grow a brain and stop supporting it, because unlike bad haircut lost life won't grow back.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Helen of Annoy

[Murenu 75]

So how can you approve of intolerant, totalitarian ideology and at the same time claim you don’t approve of its methods?

It’s like saying you approve of short haircuts, but you don’t approve cutting hair.

So, which is it? Short or long? Or you want it short but let someone else do the cutting and you’ll pretend you didn’t know it involves any scissors?

Aren't a lot of ideologies differed from each other by different means of achieving ends?

Also since when does being against cultural marxism, political correctness, white guilt, anti-European bias in our own countries mean you're for mass murder?

Edited November 14, 2012 by Gravitorbox

[MarvelAtTheWords 379]

Huh?? I didn't say that ^^

???

Edited November 14, 2012 by MarvelAtTheWords

[Helen of Annoy 24,958]

I did Was wondering too how the hell that happened to Gravitor. Shaky hands?

Aren't a lot of ideologies differed from each other by different means of achieving ends?

Why was this quote from my post signed by MarvelATW?

Just my morbid curiosity at work, if it was accidentally, don’t bother with answering.

Exactly, they are. That’s why I don’t approve of totalitarian ideologies, because I don’t approve of their methods. You may insist the iron fist was clad in velvet, but once it hits you over the head you’ll notice it felt more irony than velvety. (Great for role-playing once a week, horrible for real life forever.)

Also since when does being against cultural marxism, political correctness, white guilt, anti-European bias in our own countries mean you're for mass murder?

Do not pull that crap on me, you might have noticed I do not agree to play “no one will notice fallacy” game.

Claiming the manifesto of some guy was correct and overseeing the fact that he killed 77 unarmed children, refusing the possibility there could be some link between the ideas he proposes and said massacre is – mildly put – not a sign of intelligence.

Do you wish to leave impression of not so bright person?

Now, the cultural Marxism is something people discuss on Berkley when the pot stash is low, I guess, and it’s not relevant to anything in Europe. Because Marxism and multiculturalism are and never were the same. Do not use a wrong term just because it sounds scary.

Multikulti. Why is it bad? Or why it’s not bad? Depends how much is your government addictive of petro dollars. I kid you not. Immigrants themselves are not the problem, government blessed financing of extremism is. Cut finances, you’ve cut the extremism. Immigrants will work and shut up, just how you like it, because criticism scares the **** out of you (see insecurity issues I mentioned in my post above).

Political correctness and white guilt. Both may kiss my ass, whiter than yours. We, true Europeans, don’t trust any American to be fully white. How that felt? Get used to it, if Breivik-likes come to power, this will be the official stance. Distrust towards anyone possibly tainted. That includes West Europe, known for its fornications throughout the centuries... I could go on like this until there’s whole manifesto here, you know. It’s a no-brainer.

Anti-European bias, see multikulti paragraph. It’s something your politicians do, and they didn’t fall down from Mars. They are your representatives. Which means average citizen is corrupted, not so bright *insert euphemism of your own choice* that will sell his heritage for more reality TV and new car.

Ew.

The solution? Definitely not killing unarmed children or treating immigrants like cattle. The solution is that each and every one of you, endangered species, starts behaving responsible. Bring the values back, but you don’t need Breivik to tell you what the values are. You don’t need a lunatic with hots for Hitler in power.

You need to realize it’s not immigrants but you.

You agree to all the crap that has went wrong and you are satisfied with excuses (immigrants shat my place up) instead of solutions: change your own stance and life and it will spread. Not overnight, but it will.

I see greed and ruthlessness spreading with no problem, destroying good traditions and viability of once almost civilized world. Change back to existence with purpose and sense is possible too. I will change as much as I can, in my microsphere, and even if it doesn’t work, at least I’ll die with clear conscience.

I owe that much to you, people who can’t tell the difference between recreational role-playing ideas from actual totalitarian hell.

Go burn a book, or 77 of them, to get the taste of what you invoke.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Helen of Annoy

[Mr Right Wing 576]

1. Breivik obviously does have an abnormal way of thinking, but don’t you think it’s a little creepy to find yourself supporting the same ideology an abnormal thinking guy has produced?

2. I’m going full Godwin here, but you know who else was abnormal in his head and wrote lengthy manifesto in which he gave his view of ideal society? The personality difference between Hitler and Breivik is that Hitler was better painter than Breivik.

3. The historic difference is that Breivik had no patience to wait for the right moment, which makes him even more unwise than Hitler, the avatar of wisdom absence.

4. Everything else is the same, including their insecurities about their own not-Arian-enough appearance.

5. From their own supremacist angle, in their own eyes, both were not fit to lead anything but boring lives of not good enough people. And that’s where all that abominable need for control comes from, and out of it, all the destruction.

6. So how can you approve of intolerant, totalitarian ideology and at the same time claim you don’t approve of its methods? It’s like saying you approve of short haircuts, but you don’t approve cutting hair.

7. So, which is it? Short or long? Or you want it short but let someone else do the cutting and you’ll pretend you didn’t know it involves any scissors?

8. Grow a pair and admit you know exactly what you are supporting. Then grow a brain and stop supporting it, because unlike bad haircut lost life won't grow back.

1. You think there is something wrong with Conservative ideology? If so I hate to point it out to you but millions of people in this country are Conservative supporters.

2. I can list left-wing nutters too like Stalin and Pol-Pot. Shall we now call those who vote for the Labour Party creepy?

3. The problem is the cogs dont go around in Breviks head the same way as a normal person. Its called Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

4. Do we actually have any factual evidence that Brevik had surgery or is it just media fiction? There is nothing in historical record to suggest Hitler had any issues with being Alpine in appearance instead of Nordic so you're speculating.

5. Bearing in mind Germany successfully invaded 11 nations nearly toppling both Britain and Russia I wouldnt call Hilter incompetant. Again you're speculating on Hitlers motives. Read Mein Kampf and you'll dicover he was totally Jingoistic and hated the mess Germany was in.

6. So because I'm a Conservative I'm secretly plotting to open Concentration Camps and come eliminate lots of people Nazi style? How fantastically delusional and paranoid.

7. I thought you'd already figured that one out. Afterall if I believe in right-wing politics I must surely have a skinhead haircut, nazi tatoos all over my body and wander about with my arm in the air lol.

8. I'm Eurosceptic and I'm against immigration. I always have been and I always will be. If you equate those things with Nazism then its you with the problem.

[Mr Right Wing 576]

So, you agree that Breivik was wrong; in his actions, mentality and his motives?

Obviously as the cogs in my head go around properly.

[Helen of Annoy 24,958]

1. You think there is something wrong with Conservative ideology? If so I hate to point it out to you but millions of people in this country are Conservative supporters.

2. I can list left-wing nutters too like Stalin and Pol-Pot. Shall we now call those who vote for the Labour Party creepy?

3. The problem is the cogs dont go around in Breviks head the same way as a normal person. Its called Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

4. Do we actually have any factual evidence that Brevik had surgery or is it just media fiction? There is nothing in historical record to suggest Hitler had any issues with being Alpine in appearance instead of Nordic so you're speculating.

5. Bearing in mind Germany successfully invaded 11 nations nearly toppling both Britain and Russia I wouldnt call Hilter incompetant. Again you're speculating on Hitlers motives. Read Mein Kampf and you'll dicover he was totally Jingoistic and hated the mess Germany was in.

6. So because I'm a Conservative I'm secretly plotting to open Concentration Camps and come eliminate lots of people Nazi style? How fantastically delusional and paranoid.

7. I thought you'd already figured that one out. Afterall if I believe in right-wing politics I must surely have a skinhead haircut, nazi tatoos all over my body and wander about with my arm in the air lol.

8. I'm Eurosceptic and I'm against immigration. I always have been and I always will be. If you equate those things with Nazism then its you with the problem.

Thank you, sunshine, I so needed an excuse to settle this:

Jesus dyslexic Christ, there’s “not” missing in my sentence about cultural Marxism and multiculturalism being not the same. Yes, I have to read my own post to see where I was going

I believe the sentence still can be reconstructed in its meaning, but to prevent amateur lawyers from objecting... there, fixed.

OK, now the less important stuff. Here you go:

1. I hate to point out to you but you have missed the train, train station and the railway. Re-read all your and my posts and see how hilariously fallacious this piece of your weak troll was.

2. See point no.1.

3. No ****.

4. See photos before and after. Obvious as Cher. For Hitler, see his portraits with blue eyes. If he was proud Alpine, with no damn Nordic envy, then why hiding those beautiful brown eyes? Hess took that much better, have you ever seen a portrait of Hess with reduced eyebrows? No, he was proudly hairy, almost like a Mediterranean. God knows whose picture his grandma kept at the bottom of her underwear drawer. But I digressed.

5. I’ve read it. It’s crap. Booooooring crap. If I was born back then, my long tongue would so get me killed. Imagine that, you comment on a book and get killed. How sane is that? Apart from Saudi Arabia, western ally, whose citizens are immigrating with style, you can hardly get killed anywhere else for ill speaking of a book.

6. That’s your construction, or to be more precise, your fallacy. Apparently, you will never understand what fallacy is (a failure in reasoning which renders an argument invalid, not the other way round) and that not only it can’t prove any sane point, but it also destroys your reputation. See the poor guy, he’s trying the good old straw man. What, again? Again.

7. Be careful when you ride elevators. Use a lot of moisturiser. Take your boots off at least when you are taking the shower. Don’t forget to check under the bed for immigrants each and every night. Write when you get there, but I assure you it sounds like you are close.

8. See point no.7

Also, in the spirit of this thread, where we speak our minds but do not necessarily discuss or address each other’s points, I’d like to add the following and then shut up if no one ticks me off again. Praise the Lord, she’s about to shut up.

So, actually, you need democracy to protect you from seemingly acceptable ideas. Not Breivik. He’s self-extinguishable.

Unlike him, there are people who can camouflage their agenda any way they see fit at the moment and by the time you realize you made a mistake of your life, they’ve moved on and you stay stuck with whatever they dragged you into.

As long as there’re more of them, you stay safe from totalitarianism. Slow and corrupted democratic bureaucracy keeps them divided by giving each of them their own source of bribe and limited power. Now, if they were a little bit more organized... that would be political monopole, official or unofficial, but real. You have lost any choice the moment that happens. Even the illusion of it. Start learning from ****en history, I’m tired of repeating it.

Breivik lived in his own fantasy, which happens to a lot of people and is better than living in constant depression. The catastrophe happened when he tried to live his fantasy.

See the difference?

It’s also much harder to make a dream than a nightmare come true. It’s no wonder weak but egocentric people will choose to have their nightmare real rather than dreams of many others. Just like they choose to destroy something rather than to create. It's easier and guarantees the attention.

We, humans, are so simple. And so disgusting.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Helen of Annoy

[Mr Right Wing 576]

Thank you, sunshine, I so needed an excuse to settle this:

Jesus dyslexic Christ, there’s “not” missing in my sentence about cultural Marxism and multiculturalism being not the same. Yes, I have to read my own post to see where I was going

I believe the sentence still can be reconstructed in its meaning, but to prevent amateur lawyers from objecting... there, fixed.

OK, now the less important stuff. Here you go:

1. I hate to point out to you but you have missed the train, train station and the railway. Re-read all your and my posts and see how hilariously fallacious this piece of your weak troll was.

2. See point no.1.

3. No ****.

4. See photos before and after. Obvious as Cher. For Hitler, see his portraits with blue eyes. If he was proud Alpine, with no damn Nordic envy, then why hiding those beautiful brown eyes? Hess took that much better, have you ever seen a portrait of Hess with reduced eyebrows? No, he was proudly hairy, almost like a Mediterranean. God knows whose picture his grandma kept at the bottom of her underwear drawer. But I digressed.

5. I’ve read it. It’s crap. Booooooring crap. If I was born back then, my long tongue would so get me killed. Imagine that, you comment on a book and get killed. How sane is that? Apart from Saudi Arabia, western ally, whose citizens are immigrating with style, you can hardly get killed anywhere else for ill speaking of a book.

6. That’s your construction, or to be more precise, your fallacy. Apparently, you will never understand what fallacy is (a failure in reasoning which renders an argument invalid, not the other way round) and that not only it can’t prove any sane point, but it also destroys your reputation. See the poor guy, he’s trying the good old straw man. What, again? Again.

7. Be careful when you ride elevators. Use a lot of moisturiser. Take your boots off at least when you are taking the shower. Don’t forget to check under the bed for immigrants each and every night. Write when you get there, but I assure you it sounds like you are close.

8. See point no.7

Also, in the spirit of this thread, where we speak our minds but do not necessarily discuss or address each other’s points, I’d like to add the following and then shut up if no one ticks me off again. Praise the Lord, she’s about to shut up.

So, actually, you need democracy to protect you from seemingly acceptable ideas. Not Breivik. He’s self-extinguishable.

Unlike him, there are people who can camouflage their agenda any way they see fit at the moment and by the time you realize you made a mistake of your life, they’ve moved on and you stay stuck with whatever they dragged you into.

As long as there’re more of them, you stay safe from totalitarianism. Slow and corrupted democratic bureaucracy keeps them divided by giving each of them their own source of bribe and limited power. Now, if they were a little bit more organized... that would be political monopole, official or unofficial, but real. You have lost any choice the moment that happens. Even the illusion of it. Start learning from ****en history, I’m tired of repeating it.

Breivik lived in his own fantasy, which happens to a lot of people and is better than living in constant depression. The catastrophe happened when he tried to live his fantasy.

See the difference?

It’s also much harder to make a dream than a nightmare come true. It’s no wonder weak but egocentric people will choose to have their nightmare real rather than dreams of many others. Just like they choose to destroy something rather than to create. It's easier and guarantees the attention.

We, humans, are so simple. And so disgusting.

You do know the difference between Conservatism and National Socialism dont you?

I dont think I need to spell out to you that Hitler was about genocide, carving out an empire, slavery and establishing the Germans as a super race. After all you are Croatian and your people were on his side!

Maybe thats the problem. Maybe you are so hysterical after WW2 you see the worst possible scenario when it comes to people calling for anti--immigration policies. You also see the odd looney like brevik do something and your brain practically implodes.

Lets make this clear for you. The odd nutter like Brevik is a rare type of person. Only 0.0001% of Conservative thinking people are like him. So calm down and stop thinking everyone who is right-wing has a SS uniform in their attic.

[Murenu 75]

Exactly, they are. That’s why I don’t approve of totalitarian ideologies, because I don’t approve of their methods. You may insist the iron fist was clad in velvet, but once it hits you over the head you’ll notice it felt more irony than velvety. (Great for role-playing once a week, horrible for real life forever.)

Anders Breivik was fundamentally a nationalist. He wasn't "Totalitarian".

Do not pull that crap on me, you might have noticed I do not agree to play “no one will notice fallacy” game.

Claiming the manifesto of some guy was correct and overseeing the fact that he killed 77 unarmed children, refusing the possibility there could be some link between the ideas he proposes and said massacre is – mildly put – not a sign of intelligence. Do you wish to leave impression of not so bright person?

I agreed with most of the cultural and societal critiques.

I don't agree with some things. He was a global warming denier (if I recall), I'm mostly secular on religion, however to be fair he wasn't religious really, it was more of a cultural thing. I don't believe in "Eurabia", it makes about as much sense to me as the ZOG conspiracies out there.

Now, the cultural Marxism is something people discuss on Berkley when the pot stash is low, I guess, and it’s not relevant to anything in Europe. Because Marxism and multiculturalism are and never were the same. Do not use a wrong term just because it sounds scary.

Old Marxism wasn't the same thing. It is true oldschool marxists were against immigration and such. May wanna check out some Neo-Marxist Frankfurt school texts, however.

Multikulti. Why is it bad? Or why it’s not bad? Depends how much is your government addictive of petro dollars. I kid you not. Immigrants themselves are not the problem, government blessed financing of extremism is. Cut finances, you’ve cut the extremism. Immigrants will work and shut up, just how you like it, because criticism scares the **** out of you (see insecurity issues I mentioned in my post above).

I'm not making a shallow "they took our jobs" argument. Going more into cultural genocide and such. I am not a racial separatist, more interested in culture and identity. That may just be me speaking as an American.

I am not denying that capitalism does go hand in hand in this, something the left doesn't want to admit.

Political correctness and white guilt. Both may kiss my ass, whiter than yours. We, true Europeans, don’t trust any American to be fully white. How that felt? Get used to it, if Breivik-likes come to power, this will be the official stance. Distrust towards anyone possibly tainted. That includes West Europe, known for its fornications throughout the centuries... I could go on like this until there’s whole manifesto here, you know. It’s a no-brainer.

Well we are materialistic shallow trash now. Understandable.

Anti-European bias, see multikulti paragraph. It’s something your politicians do, and they didn’t fall down from Mars. They are your representatives. Which means average citizen is corrupted, not so bright *insert euphemism of your own choice* that will sell his heritage for more reality TV and new car.

True! All our politicians (including most of yours) are a detached intellectual class.

You don’t need a lunatic with hots for Hitler in power.

Breivik was an Israel lover and was anti-Nazi.

You agree to all the crap that has went wrong and you are satisfied with excuses (immigrants shat my place up) instead of solutions: change your own stance and life and it will spread. Not overnight, but it will.

It is a combination of factors.

I owe that much to you, people who can’t tell the difference between recreational role-playing ideas from actual totalitarian hell.

Right, I'm a roleplayer. Okay! Thanks for the assumptions! We can end this here then.

[Vlad the Mighty 36,575]

1. You think there is something wrong with Conservative ideology? If so I hate to point it out to you but millions of people in this country are Conservative supporters.

yes, but millions also aren't. I think many books could be written on what's wrong with conservative ideology, but that's neither here nor there, since I'm sure any rational Conservative would be very quick to distance themselves from Breivik's ravings .....

[Vlad the Mighty 36,575]

Anders Breivik was fundamentally a nationalist. He wasn't "Totalitarian".

I agreed with most of the cultural and societal critiques.

I don't agree with some things.

The basic problem with any argument which starts on the basis that "Well, i think breivik was right on this, that or the other count" was that the simple unarguable fact is that he murdered 77 people, a large proportion of them children. This, in itself, pretty comprehensively disqualifies any validity there may be in his arguments to me. It's like saying (yes, him again) that there's something to be said for hitler's arguments in Mein Kampf. It comprehensively disqualifies his theories and dogmas from any further consideration.

[Antilles 561]

Is the thing still alive?

Why?

[Mr Right Wing 576]

yes, but millions also aren't. I think many books could be written on what's wrong with conservative ideology, but that's neither here nor there, since I'm sure any rational Conservative would be very quick to distance themselves from Breivik's ravings .....

Conservatism is not going around killing people and you know it isnt.

I am pro-family, pro-community, pro-religion, anti-immigration, anti-eu and think we should have the death penalty for crims. Where as I like my trips to the Indian and Chinese restaurant I think mass immigration is going way to far. I'm also mystified at the willful blindness shown by many politicians when it comes to letting people in who have issues with Democracy, Freedom and non-Islamic religions.

I think those politicians saying oooooh noooo thats racism need prosecuting for murder every time an immigrant commits and act of terrorism. Its willful negligance. If I was pm -

1. Immigration would stop.

2. Any immigrant so much as hinting they agree with, support or wish to commit acts of terror would be deported with immediate effect. The EU courts of justice can go jump as far as their human rights policies are concerned.

3. All economic migrants would be deported only those whose lives are really under threat would get to keep their British citizenship.

4. I would make exceptions for gifted immigrants such as doctors, lawyers, accountants, sceintists and engineers as they benefit our country.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Murenu 75]

The basic problem with any argument which starts on the basis that "Well, i think breivik was right on this, that or the other count" was that the simple unarguable fact is that he murdered 77 people, a large proportion of them children. This, in itself, pretty comprehensively disqualifies any validity there may be in his arguments to me. It's like saying (yes, him again) that there's something to be said for hitler's arguments in Mein Kampf. It comprehensively disqualifies his theories and dogmas from any further consideration.

Unfortunately that's not the way the world works. It is like saying if Hitler said the sky was blue it would cease to be blue, or something. Their actions don't really have an inherent affect on what they said in some innate sense.

Nevermind the fact Breivik actually bothered to cite a ton of sources, which was shocking even to me. The manifesto was well researched and I would say much was factual.

http://www.ynetnews....4162907,00.html

I said it previously; the Unabomber had an IQ of 160 - he was a genius. Being a murderer and intelligent are, unfortunately, not mutually exclusive.

I don't think people apply your logic universally anyway. A lot of people like Che, he killed 100+ people under Castro.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Gravitorbox

[Vlad the Mighty 36,575]

Unfortunately that's not the way the world works. It is like saying if Hitler said the sky was blue it would cease to be blue, or something. Their actions don't really have an inherent affect on what they said in some innate sense.

Nevermind the fact Breivik actually bothered to cite a ton of sources, which was shocking even to me. The manifesto was well researched and I would say much was factual.

http://www.ynetnews....4162907,00.html

I said it previously; the Unabomber had an IQ of 160 - he was a genius. Being a murderer and intelligent are, unfortunately, not mutually exclusive.

I don't think people apply your logic universally anyway. A lot of people like Che, he killed 100+ people under Castro.

the sky being blue wasn't an idea of Hitler's, and it's nothing to do with his deranged theories about the "Purity of the race" and the "Jewish Menace" and all the rest of it. Any theory of Hitler's, or Breivik's, on these subjects is automatically discredited by coming from hitler, or Breivik, whose "manifesto" is no different from Hitler's save that "Islamic" is substituted for "Jewish". Hitler too had a ton of sources to draw from; there was whole libraries full of drivel going back centuries about how "Racial purity" was threatened by the Jews.

[Murenu 75]

the sky being blue wasn't an idea of Hitler's, and it's nothing to do with his deranged theories about the "Purity of the race" and the "Jewish Menace" and all the rest of it. Any theory of Hitler's, or Breivik's, on these subjects is automatically discredited by coming from hitler, or Breivik, whose "manifesto" is no different from Hitler's save that "Islamic" is substituted for "Jewish". Hitler too had a ton of sources to draw from; there was whole libraries full of drivel going back centuries about how "Racial purity" was threatened by the Jews.

I also don't think you can draw a clear comparison between Mein Kampf and 2083. They really aren't even the same type of book, and this still doesn't matter. My point stands. Breivik didn't source outdated mysticism, he sourced evidence of Cultural Marxist influence and actually things pushed by the Frankfurt school, among many other modern policies of certain governments and parties that are pretty much confirmed, like how this cultural marxist Swedish political party is literally trying to eliminate gender and push the most insane left wing policies...despite the fact they suck up to conservative, fundamentalist muslims.

In either case I doubt you've read Mein Kampf or Breivik's manifesto. It is not generally considered responsible to judge things you have not read, no matter what their authors did. I would partially agree with you that Mein Kampf has a ton of pseudo-science in it, though it's mostly anger and propaganda. On the other hand 2083 is hard to compare, half of it is mostly a citation of rather reliable sources - in that sense you could say Breivik is only responsible for compiling said sources, so maybe he doesn't deserve direct credit? I don't know.