2nd Amendment

[EllJay]

yeh, but they would probably need a second mortgage to pay for a full magazine

There is always money to be found when it comes to guns 'n ammo.

[Simbi Laveau]

Which ones?

Nibs

How soon everyone forgets .

Well this would be the third amendment he rapes,if it goes into affect ,but let's see.....

NDAA nukes the 5th,and all that cispa and arresting ppl for downloading and uploading ,yadda yadda ,is the 1rst .You know,freedom of speech .There one other thing....it eludes me now...

I will post it when I remember it .

Being held no judge jury or trial ,is basically crapping on the basis of the entire constitution .

Unalienable rights and all . Freedom ,freedom of speech and right to bear arms.

Lest we not forget he signed codex alimentarius into being. And don't anyone show me some false Snopes article.

I know for a fact he signed ,as it affected my livelihood directly .

So ......yah.Sneaky b******.

[ohio traveler]

None are sold as fully auto but very easily converted. Class 3 is not required based on the barrel length.

Nibs

Are you sure ? It's always been my understanding that civilian model semi-autos ( like the AR-15 ) are specifically designed and manufactured ( by law ) in a way that makes it near impossible to convert them into full-auto.

Meaning you can't just swap out parts or grind a little here or there on the internals.

[aztek]

Are you sure ? It's always been my understanding that civilian model semi-autos ( like the AR-15 ) are specifically designed and manufactured ( by law ) in a way that makes it near impossible to convert them into full-auto.

Meaning you can't just swap out parts or grind a little here or there on the internals.

it is always easy, on paper, and internet, conversion, reloading..... there are many "experts" here apperantly. you can see right away, who acualy done it, and who wants to belive thay can.

i,m not really knowlegable about details of ar, but ak can easy be converted, just buy a parts kit, it usually comes with full auto trigger group.

Edited November 15, 2012 by aztek

[questionmark]

Are you sure ? It's always been my understanding that civilian model semi-autos ( like the AR-15 ) are specifically designed and manufactured ( by law ) in a way that makes it near impossible to convert them into full-auto.

Meaning you can't just swap out parts or grind a little here or there on the internals.

That applies to guns made in the USA, foreign made "numbed down" assault rifles are exactly the same as the military version if you exclude the firing mechanism. That is easily replaceable by the hot version.

Edited November 15, 2012 by questionmark

[Grandpa Greenman]

I guess I better go out and get the pistol grip 8 round shot gun I was looking at before Christmas.

[ohio traveler]

That applies to guns made in the USA, foreign made "numbed down" assault rifles are exactly the same as the military version if you exclude the firing mechanism. That is easily replaceable by the hot version.

Okay. I'm a little confused then. I know that you can purchase foreign made AKs here in America. Yugo, Romanian, Russian, etc. But I would think that they would have to be built to BATF specs and not the " dumbed-down " foreign models that could be converted.

So basically, unless they were somehow smuggled in, they would never make it into the hands of Americans anyway.

[questionmark]

Okay. I'm a little confused then. I know that you can purchase foreign made AKs here in America. Yugo, Romanian, Russian, etc. But I would think that they would have to be built to BATF specs and not the " dumbed-down " foreign models that could be converted.

So basically, unless they were somehow smuggled in, they would never make it into the hands of Americans anyway.

Not quite right, the BATF specs don't tell anybody how to build their guns, just that the conversion from civilian to military specs should be made difficult (because even the ATF knows that there is nothing impossible). That is quite a rubber paragraph that can be stretched in any direction. Is it difficult to change the loading carriage or is it difficult to change the trigger plate?

For somebody who has a lathe and a metal mill (and knows what to do with them) neither is. But as a warning to all now trying to buy them: just the fact that you changed your gun (even if you did not fire a single shot after that) could get you a lengthy stay in Leavenworth and a prohibition to own guns after you get out. It is a felony.

[aztek]

Okay. I'm a little confused then. I know that you can purchase foreign made AKs here in America. Yugo, Romanian, Russian, etc. But I would think that they would have to be built to BATF specs and not the " dumbed-down " foreign models that could be converted.

you can convert semi auto gun to full auto, legaly, as long as you have class3 license. but you have to regester it as nfa weapon after. and pay iirc $ 200 tax on each transaction.. laws are tricky, always grey.

in nyc it is almost imposible to get pistol permit, black powder guns are allowed here with no lisence, but guns only, if you get cought with balls, caps and powder, you get charged, but i can have all that, since i have nyc pistol license. however even with pistol lisence, i can't have a bb gun. not much sence here. i can legaly own a firearm, but not a bb gun.

[praetorian-legio XIII]

So infowars as a source and FEMA camps being brought up. Well good that people are using calm logical reasoning instead of baseless emotional parania.

With all do respect, what does a logically reasoning person such as your self believe the Fema camps (of which there are many) are for? I sincerely hope your response will take away the worries I have about the direction of this great country and the future of its concerned, tax paying, law abidding, gun owning citizens.

[+HerNibs]

With all do respect, what does a logically reasoning person such as your self believe the Fema camps (of which there are many) are for? I sincerely hope your response will take away the worries I have about the direction of this great country and the future of its concerned, tax paying, law abidding, gun owning citizens.

There are no FEMA camps.

Nibs

[aztek]

there is fema camp set up on Floyd Bennett field right now. a tent city, for those who lived in Far rockaway. but i don't think those are the camps, posters above talking about.

[+and-then]

Yes, you guys let so many of your rights being tweaked, but this one seems to be the most important for many US Americans.

I know it is a red line for many, many US citizens. I realize this is very difficult for Europeans to understand because your history goes back much farther and "conquering" frontiers is so far back in your history that there is not much trace of it taught these days. Americans like myself - 52 - and who grew up in rural or semi rural areas didn't just keep firearms for toys or sporting matches. We put food on the table and also protected our homes and families with them. It's AMAZING just how civil and respectful neighbors are when they KNOW that everyone who lives around them is armed. That being said, it was never like living in fear or an armed camp. It was just a common knowledge that you respected your neighbor's property, family and home. And you knew he would do the same for you. I realize that armed force is unnecessary in a civilized country to accomplish those goals but in the next few years I think you may be surprised at just how uncivilized desperate people can become. Most Americans would be very hard pressed indeed to actually turn weapons on law enforcement if they came to confiscate people's guns....but I believe that most WOULD, if push came to shove. I pray it never comes to that test.

[EllJay]

It's AMAZING just how civil and respectful neighbors are when they KNOW that everyone who lives around them is armed.

Don't you think that that is a kind of false,disingenuous and shallow sense of neighbourhood "friendship"?

It's like: "If I have this big gun I will get a lot of respect and everyone will be friendly to me"

[+and-then]

Don't you think that that is a kind of false,disingenuous and shallow sense of neighbourhood "friendship"?

It's like: "If I have this big gun I will get a lot of respect and everyone will be friendly to me"

You either did not read all the post or are ignoring my explanation of just the point you make. The greater issue is that those days are gone and even where YOU live you may find that neighbors won't be as respectful if they are hungry and desperate.

[Corp]

With all do respect, what does a logically reasoning person such as your self believe the Fema camps (of which there are many) are for? I sincerely hope your response will take away the worries I have about the direction of this great country and the future of its concerned, tax paying, law abidding, gun owning citizens.

If the FEMA camps exist they would be camps used for emergency situations involving wide spread disaster. Nothing at all about taxes, guns, flu shots, or any of the other theories that have popped up over the years.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=218808&hl=%2Bfema

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=180930&hl=%2Bfema

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=178184&hl=%2Bfema

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=140691&hl=%2Bfema

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=150049&hl=%2Bfema

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=148341&hl=%2Bfema

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=142323&hl=%2Bfema

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127300&hl=%2Bfema

These are just a few threads found in a very quick search of the forums warning about the dangers of FEMA, how they're taking over, how they're going to round everyone up for flimsy reasons, etc etc etc. Going back years. And yet nothing has happened. Nothing remotely like it has happened. The claims that those who don't pay new taxes would be rounded up didn't happen, the idea that if you didn't get a swine flu vaccine you'd go to camps didn't happen, if you didn't vote one way off to the camps didn't happen, and their involvement in supposed new gun laws didn't happen. We get warnings about FEMA camps around here a few times every year and it turns out to be nothing but baseless fear.

[MiskatonicGrad]

Look If you have trouble getting weapons just contact Mr Holder at the Department of Justice. I heard he will hand out a gun to just about anybody.

[ninjadude]

said he WANTS too.. probs wont get away with it.. but just stupid he even wants too.

no you really are making crap up. Why in the world do you want assault weapons on the street? insanity.

[MiskatonicGrad]

no you really are making crap up. Why in the world do you want assault weapons on the street? insanity.

Because if some idiot wants rock and roll on full auto he isn't going to hit crap so it's safer then if he fired on semi and he would run out of ammo quicker so the cops can just arrest him and he can become a tax burden to us law abiding citizens.

Edited November 16, 2012 by MiskatonicGrad

[Marks_Thoughts]

Years ago I was working part-time in a gunshop (lots of fun by the way) and the gunsmith brought out a pistol for a handful of us to look over. At first glance it was a German Luger, but there was something not quite correct. Looking closer revealed some absolutely amazing things. The tool marks that appear on the sides of the frame were not true circles, machine tools leave very good circles, they were actually hand engraved. The proof stampings and the serial numbers were also hand engraved. To really make it extraordinary was that there was no rifling in the barrel, completely smoothbore. The pistol was a hand made copy made by an Afghan tribesman some time in the 1950s or so.

Think about this for a moment. The Luger was one of the most complex and difficult firearms to construct, which was one of the reasons few armies used it - it cost too much. To make it today requires some 150 separate machine tool setups to build all of the parts. Doing this by hand with cutting stones, files, and similar must have been horrendous. The most amazing, the main spring is shaped like a V, and has to be tempered exactly correct or the firearm will simply not operate. The guy had it right.

So, at one time there was a likely poorly educated, but highly capable person working in a shop that did not have electric power (hence no rifling), who was willing to spend months duplicating scores of complicated steel parts, finishing and tempering the pieces, just to create a duplicate of an existing pistol.

The point of all of this is that it is impossible to uninvent something. The government can go out and steal every gun there is and not long following there will still be guns - even if we have to make them from scratch. By the way, making bullets, powder, primers, and casings is a snap compared to actually making the guns themselves.

Heck, just make the gunpowder and use it to get the guns back or take theirs...

[questionmark]

Years ago I was working part-time in a gunshop (lots of fun by the way) and the gunsmith brought out a pistol for a handful of us to look over. At first glance it was a German Luger, but there was something not quite correct. Looking closer revealed some absolutely amazing things. The tool marks that appear on the sides of the frame were not true circles, machine tools leave very good circles, they were actually hand engraved. The proof stampings and the serial numbers were also hand engraved. To really make it extraordinary was that there was no rifling in the barrel, completely smoothbore. The pistol was a hand made copy made by an Afghan tribesman some time in the 1950s or so.

Think about this for a moment. The Luger was one of the most complex and difficult firearms to construct, which was one of the reasons few armies used it - it cost too much. To make it today requires some 150 separate machine tool setups to build all of the parts. Doing this by hand with cutting stones, files, and similar must have been horrendous. The most amazing, the main spring is shaped like a V, and has to be tempered exactly correct or the firearm will simply not operate. The guy had it right.

So, at one time there was a likely poorly educated, but highly capable person working in a shop that did not have electric power (hence no rifling), who was willing to spend months duplicating scores of complicated steel parts, finishing and tempering the pieces, just to create a duplicate of an existing pistol.

The point of all of this is that it is impossible to uninvent something. The government can go out and steal every gun there is and not long following there will still be guns - even if we have to make them from scratch. By the way, making bullets, powder, primers, and casings is a snap compared to actually making the guns themselves.

Heck, just make the gunpowder and use it to get the guns back or take theirs...

If the military uses it, it is the most dumbed down technology available, and that is especially true for the time when people were still drafted. Anything had to be so easy to use and maintain that anybody with an IQ slightly exceeding 80 could handle it.

As for the Afghan blacksmiths, they can build you anything if you bring them a sample, no matter how complicated the gun is. And for amazing prizes. When 'Stan is more or less peaceful they'll sell you an AK copy for less than $100. The Filipino back alley gunsmiths are just as good, though slightly more expensive.

[Grey14]

Learn to spell you're* before you call someone else a fool.

Oh Iz sees maaster. Iz offended the Internets grammar police.

Dip****

[Drayno]

Oh Iz sees maaster. Iz offended the Internets grammar police.

Dip****

Oh, the maturity of some of the members on this site.

At least I didn't resort to name calling. What's next, tattle-telling and nap time? Give me a break.

[LucidElement]

The Social security and department of homeland security ordered sooo much guns and ammo a few months ago, got to ask yourself why. 750 Million rounds for DHS!!

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-purchase-another-750-million-rounds-of-ammo/

[FLOMBIE]

What does that have to do with the second amendment? They simply made a deal that was worth the investment.