SETI receives $3.5M funding boost

[Bendy Demon]

I didn't realize that increasing our knowledge of the universe that we inhabit was a bad thing.

I never said that now, did I? So please don't pull that card on me.

Besides, SETI has an entire R&D division that has developed new signal processing algorithms (that tech can be used for pretty much everything in our modern world) and have helped advance radio astronomy with new tech. Not to mention all the engineers, technicians, scientists, pr people, administrators and even educators that they employ.

Plus, almost every self made computer millionaire invests in SETI. David Packard, William Hewlett, Gordon Moore (Intel), Paul Allen (Microsoft), Bill Gates, Barney Oliver (Founder HP Labs). In the past, these people have shown that they know where to make good investments.

And that means what exactly? So we have a bunch of dishes pointed at the sky trying to find "alien" signals and we assume they are using the same technology or even the same wavelengths as we do?

After all this time and we STILL haven't heard so much as a s****** in space. I am surprised that all these "heavy hitters" haven't even vaguely alluded to this. No wonder we aren't getting anywhere...if an alien civilization is using a frequency we haven't even begun to understand or even discover then we may as well be trying to use a system of strings and soup cans.

[Sweetpumper]

I never said that now, did I? So please don't pull that card on me.

And that means what exactly? So we have a bunch of dishes pointed at the sky trying to find "alien" signals and we assume they are using the same technology or even the same wavelengths as we do?

After all this time and we STILL haven't heard so much as a s****** in space. I am surprised that all these "heavy hitters" haven't even vaguely alluded to this. No wonder we aren't getting anywhere...if an alien civilization is using a frequency we haven't even begun to understand or even discover then we may as well be trying to use a system of strings and soup cans.

What better way to make a living pretending what you're doing matters and paying your salary through donations? Hell, I wanna do that! Sit around playing Galaga, only working to get that next big donation when the latest one starts running out.

[Imaginarynumber1]

I never said that now, did I? So please don't pull that card on me.

And that means what exactly? So we have a bunch of dishes pointed at the sky trying to find "alien" signals and we assume they are using the same technology or even the same wavelengths as we do?

After all this time and we STILL haven't heard so much as a s****** in space. I am surprised that all these "heavy hitters" haven't even vaguely alluded to this. No wonder we aren't getting anywhere...if an alien civilization is using a frequency we haven't even begun to understand or even discover then we may as well be trying to use a system of strings and soup cans.

You have no vision.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

What better way to make a living pretending what you're doing matters and paying your salary through donations? Hell, I wanna do that! Sit around playing Galaga, only working to get that next big donation when the latest one starts running out.

I bet a LOT of people would love that job I know I would

[Space Commander Travis]

Is it strange that it never repeated again?

Not necessarily, i don't think; they (supposing that there was a 'They' for the moment) wouldn't have had any reason to aim a signal at us specifically, since there's no way that they'd have been able to detect any radio emissions from us, even if they were right next door, i.e. in the vicinity of Alpha Centauri (Carl Sagan was apparently mistaken there, and any non-directional signals would get far too dispersed to be traceable as a deliberate signal), so who knows, it may have been part of a program of shooting signals off in all directions just to see if it gets a response. And they wouldn't have anticipated any response straight away; this was only 35 years ago, which is only like day or two ago in astronomical terms.

[Space Commander Travis]

Although I'm not sure whether it should be an encouraging sign or not that the Aliens apparently also play World of Warcraft.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Not necessarily, i don't think; they (supposing that there was a 'They' for the moment) wouldn't have had any reason to aim a signal at us specifically, since there's no way that they'd have been able to detect any radio emissions from us, even if they were right next door, i.e. in the vicinity of Alpha Centauri (Carl Sagan was apparently mistaken there, and any non-directional signals would get far too dispersed to be traceable as a deliberate signal), so who knows, it may have been part of a program of shooting signals off in all directions just to see if it gets a response. And they wouldn't have anticipated any response straight away; this was only 35 years ago, which is only like day or two ago in astronomical terms.

But the fact that it hasnt repeated again would lead me to believe that it was artificial and was not just a sound coming from the environment that is space. I mean dont sounds in space usually repeat themselves and have a rhythem to them?

[Space Commander Travis]

But the fact that it hasnt repeated again would lead me to believe that it was artificial and was not just a sound coming from the environment that is space. I mean dont sounds in space usually repeat themselves and have a rhythem to them?

Yes, and that'd be in keeping with my suggestion. My suggestion was that it might perhaps have been an artificial signal, but not specifially directed at us and perhaps speculatively sent out, perhaps directed towards stars that might host habitable systems, just in the nature of sending it out in like a wide sweep to see if anyone notices.They wouldn't bother repeating it unless someone did respond; and they wouldn't know if anyone did respond for a perhaps quite few years. These ET programs probably work on quite long timescales.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Yes, and that'd be in keeping with my suggestion. My suggestion was that it might perhaps have been an artificial signal, but not specifially directed at us and perhaps speculatively sent out, perhaps directed towards stars that might host habitable systems, just in the nature of sending it out in like a wide sweep to see if anyone notices.They wouldn't bother repeating it unless someone did respond; and they wouldn't know if anyone did respond for a perhaps quite few years. These ET programs probably work on quite long timescales.

Okay yeah they wouldnt get it for a while thats even IF there still there

[bison]

The 'wow signal' may not have been intended for us. It didn't come from the direction of any readily identifiable star. For all we know it could have been a communications beam between two E.T. space vessels and Earth just happened to be, more or less, in the way, at the time. The fact that it was a very strong signal seems to point to a relatively nearby source.

The philosophy of SETI is to listen with the technology that is available now, rather than to do nothing, waiting for some new means of communications to be invented some day. Even if we did this, we couldn't know that the next idea in communication would serve any better. It would seem to be a hopeless task to try to 'catch up with' a stellar civilization that may be thousands, millions or billions of years more technically advanced than we are. We have to trust that if they wish to communicate with a civilization at our level of development, they will adapt themselves to our limitations.

It is entirely possible than technical innovations make it possible for extraterrestrial civilizations to detect our present radio signals. Its been discussed scientifically, that the mass of a star could be used as a sort of lens to gather in and concentrate radio waves, allowing a remarkable increase in sensitivity.

The issue of the lack of SETI results so far *has* been addressed. As it turns out, we have searched the equivalent of a glass full of water out of an ocean of possibilities. If you dipped out a glass of water from the ocean and found no little fish in it, would you be justified in saying that there are no fish in the ocean, or that the whole idea of fishing was a waste and a deception?

[Space Commander Travis]

The issue of the lack of SETI results so far *has* been addressed. As it turns out, we have searched the equivalent of a glass full of water out of an ocean of possibilities. If you dipped out a glass of water from the ocean and found no little fish in it, would you be justified in saying that there are no fish in the ocean, or that the whole idea of fishing was a waste and a deception?

Well, exactly. People also say that, as there hasn't been (so far as they or we know) any Extraterrestrial spacecraft that have yet landed on the mythical White House lawn, that means that, they ocnlcude sadly, there can't be anyone at there at all. Like, wtf?

[badeskov]

Well, exactly. People also say that, as there hasn't been (so far as they or we know) any Extraterrestrial spacecraft that have yet landed on the mythical White House lawn, that means that, they ocnlcude sadly, there can't be anyone at there at all. Like, wtf?

Hi 747,

Not sure how you conclude that.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[Space Commander Travis]

Hi 747,

Not sure how you conclude that.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Yes, conclude was the word I meant, not onclcude. Anyway, it's rather like saying "Well, no Chinese people have ever knocked on my door, so I conclude from that that no Chinese people exist", isn't it.

[psyche101]

SETI - "Silly Effort To Investigate!" Stanton Friedman.

That certainly sounds like something that man would say.

As Bugs would say. What a maroon.

There's no other reason than they're not going to find aliens using radio signals.

Why.

Wow. The level on anti science in this thread so far is staggering. Who cares if you agree with it or not. It was private money that was donated to a private cause.

Disheartening was the word that came to my mind.

[psyche101]

Supposed extraterrestrial visitors seem rather elusive, and unwilling to provide unquestionable evidence of their existence.

Supposed ET visitors refuse to offer information?

I beg your pardon? This not simply the cart before the horse. The foal has not even been conceived Bison.

[psyche101]

If science is ever to be our liberator and be the Godsend it was promised to be it would have happened long before now. For every solution it provides it creates another ten types of disaster. A little adding up would have told you as much.

Codswallop. But then again, despite your claims, one thing you have proven on these boards is that Math is not your strong point.

Science promised to be mankind's ultimate great saviour 50 years ago. In 2012 there is more stress, fatal diseases, poverty, labour (mental and physical) than there has ever been. Time to look in different directions methinks.

No there is not, are you trying to say that science has bred and released disease? If so, are you quite mad?

Where the heck do you get these statistics from? Ever read much about the Mayan Civilisations? The Barbarity, sacrifices, or the horrible deaths from lazy doctors who refused to wash their hands, and not too many buildings are made from hand carved stone like the old days. Good God man, your ignorance never ceases to amaze me!!!!!! Almost everyday, just when I think "this is it" you better it. Astounding really!!!!!! Life spans are ever increasing, plastic surgery and the like keeps people young for a very long time, it's not the same world it was 30 years ago. Heck, 30 years ago the Internet was something scientists were working on. Now it's a household item. Thats learning to your desktop no matter were you are, and nothing is more valuable than knowledge. So how is that not a great advancement?

If you do not see that as great leaps, then you have to be deliberately refusing to read that which is laid out for you. And I happen to know that unless one has a Youtube clip claiming aliens, you just switch off.

So who is ignorant and living in a fantasy world really?

That would be you. Wanting every person to dismiss learning and he who thinks modern science does nothing, and only because the discoveries are so far beyond you. You make me sad Zoser. Really, you do. I always had much faith that anyone could accomplish anything. I used to think that if you pick a bum up off the street, and give him the right resources he could become a brain surgeon. You have hobbled my faith in humanity.

[AbyssWalker]

So who is ignorant and living in a fantasy world really?

Ahem. You.

[psyche101]

I think that's a fair argument. Certainly the likelihood of ETs using this old fashioned method of communications, and of our being able to detect anything from this distance, is certainly slim.

However, since SETI isn't Government funded, I don't see what harm it;s doing.

If we are sending out older style comms, would that not make it rather easy for ET to pick up? If we were advanced, and had tried to send our signals on older mediums in our history, would we not continue to scan older bands if looking for another civilisation, possibly less advanced?

Many say we have no chance of picking up or sending coherent signals past Jupiter, but we are communicating with the Voyager probes in a regular basis, and they are entering the Interstellar medium. There simply has to be a way. And it logically is the best way.

[AbyssWalker]

There's no other reason than they're not going to find aliens using radio signals.

Yeah, and you've obviously met these aliens, right? You know for certain that they can't be using radio signals.

[psyche101]

I guess Ill just google the question I posed earlier

How did you go? If you found anything interesting, please share. I am rather interested in the WOW! signal.

If not, Wiki states:

Location of the signal

Determining a precise location in the sky was complicated by the fact that the Big Ear telescope used two feed horns to search for signals, each pointing to a slightly different direction in the sky following Earth's rotation; the Wow! signal was detected in one of the horns but not in the other, although the data was processed in such a way that it is impossible to determine in which of the two horns the signal entered. There are, therefore, two possible right ascension values:

• 19^h22^m24.64^s ± 5^s (positive horn)
  
• 19^h25^m17.01^s ± 5^s (negative horn)
  

The declination was unambiguously determined to be −27°03′ ± 20′. The preceding values are all expressed in terms of the B1950.0 equinox.^[4]

Converted into the J2000.0 equinox, the coordinates become RA= 19^h25^m31^s ± 10^s or 19^h28^m22^s ± 10^s and declination= −26°57′ ± 20′

This region of the sky lies in the constellation Sagittarius, roughly 2.5 degrees south of the fifth-magnitude star group Chi Sagittarii, and about 3.5 degrees south of the plane of the ecliptic. Tau Sagittarii is the closest easily visible star.

The fellow who detected it (Jerry Ehman) has also said it could be an earth bound signal, but he does tend to flipp flop on this subject. One day he says it was likely ET, the next day not, but I do not find his reasoning of "If it was ET we would have found it again when we looked another 50 times" convincing at all. I do not think 50 times is a sufficient sample, I do not see why a smaller array cannot be set up and pointed in the direction permanently. That I feel might offer a solution, not a sample of 50 times.

Edited November 29, 2012 by psyche101

[psyche101]

Is it strange that it never repeated again?

Considering the distances involved, I feel most certainly not.

[psyche101]

The issue of the lack of SETI results so far *has* been addressed. As it turns out, we have searched the equivalent of a glass full of water out of an ocean of possibilities. If you dipped out a glass of water from the ocean and found no little fish in it, would you be justified in saying that there are no fish in the ocean, or that the whole idea of fishing was a waste and a deception?

We certainly agree on this. I feel SETI is a valuable project, and do not understand the detractors. Much faster than any other form of exploration. And far cheaper.

[psyche101]

Yes, conclude was the word I meant, not onclcude. Anyway, it's rather like saying "Well, no Chinese people have ever knocked on my door, so I conclude from that that no Chinese people exist", isn't it.

LOL, no I do not think it is like that at all. After all, most people say "Life Must Exist" the question being "where?"

Yeah, and you've obviously met these aliens, right? You know for certain that they can't be using radio signals.

I do not understand either. We use them, why would every other species in the Universe not?

Edited November 29, 2012 by psyche101

[bmk1245]

[...] if an alien civilization is using a frequency we haven't even begun to understand or even discover then we may as well be trying to use a system of strings and soup cans.

What do you mean by that? Its like saying "not understood/undiscovered distance between Berlin and Geneva".

[badeskov]

Yes, conclude was the word I meant, not onclcude. Anyway, it's rather like saying "Well, no Chinese people have ever knocked on my door, so I conclude from that that no Chinese people exist", isn't it.

I don't really get it, to be honest. Who is saying that they do not exist (not the Chinese )?

Cheers,

Badeskov