Forced religion

[freetoroam]

Fortuanltely i live in a small country town without a govt scientist in cooee. I keep my head down and stay off govt lists etc as much as a govt employee can do, I learnt the dangers of disclosure at a very early age when i was first brought to the notice of authorities. Like lazurus Long i considered hiding my identity as it became necessary for the govt to know more and more about us all, but eventualy i decided i only had to hide what I am, not who I am.

We were only misbehaving while you were away.

PS: when you say what you are? is that like a physical thing or working thing?

[Orcseeker]

I agree with you, but let's examine this closer.

There was a time when 'stealing' was surviving, men took other men's belongings, women, residences, countries, etc. Because it was best for 'their' tribe and its survival.

So we have morals & ethics that pertain time periods and we see that these standards change with cultural periods and such. In essence there are no universal ethical & moral standards . . . we make them up as we go along!

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the

time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong. Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.

[Sean93]

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong. Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.

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Edited November 30, 2012 by Sean93

[Sean93]

Sorry about that ^

[Etu Malku]

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the

time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong.

You're not getting it, taking from another was not considered wrong, it was considered "might". Today it is of course because we live in a predominantly pseudo democracy/socialism society around the world.

Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.

By "who's" Principle? See you are speaking strictly from a religious mindset still.

[Mr Walker]

But your main contention to what you say here has to do with things like teaching a child it is wrong to steal, which in principle it is wrong to steal, that is universally accepted. That it is good to value family and bad to discriminate against certain people etc. All justified universal truths. These are which I am all for.

However, as far as religion goes, I believe that should remain a choice to the individual and solely them once they are capable of making such a decision.

The concept that it is wrong to steal is far from universal. Indigenous australians ahd no concept of personal property and thus no concept of theft. Apache indians and others held the abilty to st.eal as one of the highest attributes a man could have Theft of property only became an issue in "civilised societes" where people bean to accrue personal possessions and property .

This is just another belief system. like religious based beliefs. Most religious based beliefs correspond to the basic beliefs of the society in which the religion exists.

Hence judaeo christian beliefs coresponded to, and formed the basis for western law, for nearly two millenia. That is because judaism, and settled agrarian civilization, began about the same time in one place. The jews borrowed/adopted, many beliefs and laws from babylon and egypt, both emerging civilizations. Christian laws and rules matched the social and economic realities and expectaions of people in such civilised, agrarian based, societies Hence they were integrated with civil laws and expectaions.

[Mr Walker]

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the

time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong. Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.

No. There is no absolute morality like that, not even today. Humans construct ethical beliefs and values, and then base their moralities around them. Ethics are ALWAYS embedded in the social, economic, and other realities of a time and place. There is no universal morality about killing or stealing or any other action. It depends on the social context. What is considered wrong today most certainly may not have been wrong 100 years ago or a thousand or ten thousand. It is illogical and ego centric to seek to impose our moralities over those of the past, as if we are superior to them. To ilustrate this point, jump forward 100 or 500 years. Our moralities will be considered wrong, and probably evil and stupid, to those people, because they will live in a very different reality.

[Mr Walker]

We were only misbehaving while you were away.

PS: when you say what you are? is that like a physical thing or working thing?

I mean i only had to hide my spidey powers from people not the fact that i existed among them so as long as I hide what I am, i can live comfortably and safely among the multitude. But, like lazarus long, if people discovered he was virtually immortal, they would have been all over him, so he had to hide what he was, not who he was.

This probably helps explain my life long interest in marvel comic characters, like peter parker, who are often in the same boat.

[freetoroam]

I mean i only had to hide my spidey powers from people not the fact that i existed among them so as long as I hide what I am, i can live comfortably and safely among the multitude. But, like lazarus long, if people discovered he was virtually immortal, they would have been all over him, so he had to hide what he was, not who he was.

This probably helps explain my life long interest in marvel comic characters, like peter parker, who are often in the same boat.

never heard of him before, but see that he lived a long time, sort of like the fictional characters in the beginning of genesis, they lived for a few hundred years.