Croatian hero Ante Gotovina acquitted of war

[Helen of Annoy]

Do you think that some followers of Milošević will show up here? Now that would be interesting.

No. But if they do, we will behave like general Gotovina: firm, but dignified, calm and honest.

(Of course I can't keep calm, but I'm not a general )

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Now allow me to explain to you dear UMers why he is General as Napoleon, Caesar, Gustavus Adolphus, Hannibal, Zhukov, Nader Shah , Patton...

It was longest military line after World War 2. It was 630 km of enemies line. To break such line depth of impact of army must have been 50 km.

So when operation Oluja started our special forces made 50 km impact behind enemy lines.

Before action Oluja we were secretly listen Milošević, main negative protagonist of all this mess. so we knew every next move ordered by this mad man.

With drones we takes photo of every inch of enemy lines. When operation started we knew where every theor tank was.

Our neighbours Bosnia and Herzegovinia, homeland of Odas allow Croatian special forces Tigers to made action Summer 95 or Ljeto 95 and in that action we capture peak "Šator" or Tent on english. That was strategic move first. And tactical.

Tactic is what is done on battlfield and strategy is what is done behind. Manouvers.

Our special forces of police were already on Velebit since 1993 and since 1994 HVor Croatian Army was on Dinara mountain.

Now all this time Croatia was under embargo so we must secretly and illegal to armed ourselves to defend from 3rd army in Europe. JNA-Yugoslavian Army with Serbian Chetniks.

Peter W. Galbraith propsed plan Z4 where he allow Serbs to have state inside of Croatia. Meaning that Croatia gave up on us territory.

Ofcourse we refused that and we demand AVNOJ borders. Then USA and Clinton gave us 10 days.

So stake was high. Either we get all in 10 days or loose all.

Operation Oluja should be 8 days before it happened but because of secret mobilization problems happened week later.

General Stipetić was on east in Đakovo securing east line. Croats also secured south line just in case Yugoslavia will attack either from Serbia or from Montenegro.

In 2 a.m. on August 4th 1995 action started.

All Serbian informative lines were blocked so their artilery was cut from thier infantry.

1000 special policemen on Velebit with 35 kg of equipment and ammunition and on 1600 meters above sea level came on high resistance. Bunkers.

Amnog special forces there was 12 complete teams of surgeons, anesthesiologists, nurses with big loads of blood for transfussion.

Because of heavy terrain all operation were done on scene.

General Norac with his Wolf brigade attacked from Lika and General Crnjac from Karlovac.

When you break enemy line you must have impact forces who would like spear break line. That line breakers in Croatian Army were Tigers.

Croatian Army have mission to melt with 5 Corpus of Army of Bosnia and Herzegovnia trough Kapela.

General Korade on 5.8. lead liberation of Croatian city Knin with his Pumas. Later 4th Brigade under Krstičević which are aka Spiders join Korade.

On first day of breaking lines we have difficulties in sector Petrinja. That was a result of changing plans in headquarters in Zagreb.

Now if you read carefully what I wrote you will remember that you must have something like spear forces which will break lines. In this area we loose sharpness and attack as parallel line. Parallel lines cant break other.

In 2nd. Brigade we have 18 deads with commander of battalion dead. 60 wounded. 8 elite special force soldiers were killed which is a lot for special forces. One special force soldiers counts as 11 normal. So it was like you loose 88 soldiers. Then General Stipetić overtakes command.

So four days after USA allow us to liberate our country , on August 08th 1995, Čedo Bulat sign capitulation on the car of Croatian police while General Stipetić smiled.

Many others are involved. Minister of defense Gojko Šušak,Admiral Domazet Lošo.

Croatia did information war before attacking Serbs.

192 000 people were involved in Operation Oluja.

We liberated 11 000 km2. We spent on daily basis 1200 tones of ammunition and 400 tones of fuel.

Now thats huge numbers.

Now where Gotovina in all this story. Well caporal chef have keyrole in all strategic actions. In taking peak Šator in Bosnia. In action Maslenica. In liberation of Knin. He was commander in melted army of HV and HVO in action Maestral. All hard work in Dalmatia and Hezegovinia was done by Ante. He led Croatian army which came 23 km of BanjaLuka where Serbs have 50 000 soldiers.

Then when Ante Gotovina was in fron of Banja Luka USA gave sign to Croatian goverment that we must stop with all action like they were surprised how much did we in 4 days.

Ante Gotivna was in that light responsible for Dayton agreement. He created terms for it with his tactics and strategical manuvers.

From 4 to 7 August 1995 , 124 croatian soldier died. 20 officers and 18 non-commissioned officers.

What does information tells you that our officers were in front lines. And everyone who was under Ante Gotovina said that he was always near front lines.

On other hand 575 Serb soldiers died and 1850 soldiers were wounded.

Operation is now studied in US Army with Cannae, Alesia and similar.

Its par excellence of modern warfare. and Gotovina played keyrole in it.

Okay Helena now I will keep my mouth closed.

Edited November 16, 2012 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Croats sing "Moja domovina" (My homeland)

It has a strenght of golden wheat

It has eyes of the sea

My homeland.

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Edited November 16, 2012 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Today our war of indenpendence finally is over.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUEsVYJzJWk

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I feel your excitment.

Finally I have word. Its catharsis.

[+ouija ouija]

I've just been looking at all the videos that you posted ...... what an emotional time for Croatia!

The video of Gotovina being arrested in the restaurant: how long ago was that?

Warmongers never take into account that people have very long memories: never forget, never forgive.

As well as the loss of life and the mental scarring, how sad that the beautiful old city of Dubrovnik was so damaged. That sort of vandalism is unforgiveable too.

But tonight justice has been seen to be done: I raise my glass to Croatia!

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Now lets go back for a while and see how start this mess. Not war. Gotovina trial.

Yup. Its Carla Del Ponte.

Thing is that reason why he is put on trial is redicule. He was accused for overmuch bombardment of city Knin so Serbs must leave their homes. That he was hiting civil targets. They named one young man as victim of his bombardment. One. Imagine. Now lets stay here for a moment. Croatia in 1995 didnt have guided missles. We have had usual artilery which anyone who was in military knows that doesnt hit targets like sniper. You cant shoot with it like „dots.“ It kills everything in area of 50 meters. Sometimes 150 meters. Second missle can miss target to even 500 meters. It depends on wind, weather and artilery itself. Then International court invented new war rule. That you can hit anything around military targets in circle of 200 meters. Now, thats nonsense because that war law doesnt exist and it was Carla Del Ponte invention. Thats main reason why charges melted.

Now when journalist asked why the reporter insisted so much on the indictment of a joint criminal enterprise Del Ponte which now work for UN on Syria problems then in next sentence said is in pension, Carla replied: "Because it is a criminal enterprise."

Imagine this. Totally disrespectfull to International court which is court of UN. He was mad because her charges are dismissed on all points.

She continued: „I am very surprised because Gotovina and Markac were convicted of first instance verdict. It was a big, big surprise, " I mean how dare you. Del Ponte what do you think why apeal exits in first place? You a lawyer you should know that.

Then she starts again: 'I hope that in the appeal proceedings from all first-instance judgment Gotovina and Markac be confirmed, " Ofcourse you hoped because you was paid to bring war criminals to justice and now when everybody see that Carla was charlatan you are surprised. Theodor Meron, Presiding Judge International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, was also surprised that Gotovina and Markač are in jail so he order to release them instantly. How all admirals of USA army laugh on Del Ponte accusitions? He invented new war rules.

When journalist ask her how come that she didnt put head of JNA on trial for overmuch bombardment of Croatian city of Vukovar (Not to mention Gospić,Petrinja,Dubrovnik …)? She answered that there wasnt enough time to put all them in jail. Court is closing.

Now isnt that selective justice? Selective justice is worst then unjustice. City of Vukovar become ground literally. Yet no one was accused for overmuch bombardment.

She is hilarious. Its sad that people like her still works in UN if she didnt lied.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I've just been looking at all the videos that you posted ...... what an emotional time for Croatia!

The video of Gotovina being arrested in the restaurant: how long ago was that?

Warmongers never take into account that people have very long memories: never forget, never forgive.

As well as the loss of life and the mental scarring, how sad that the beautiful old city of Dubrovnik was so damaged. That sort of vandalism is unforgiveable too.

But tonight justice has been seen to be done: I raise my glass to Croatia!

He was arrested on Cannaries Tenriffe island in December 2005.

We all forgive here. But we will not forget.

And sadly it wasnt just Dubrovnik. I could gave a list of dozens cities.

From Zagreb to Sarajevo.When we are talking about Sarajevo. 1601 children killed by Serbian snipers or granate. Siege line was 57 km long. All toghether 11.451 victim. 30.000 Serbs with 100 Tanks and 1600 cannons tried to destroy one of most beatuiful cities in the world. And not for architecture (although I found it nice) because of people. That spirit of Sarajevo people was something. Serbs failed to breake that spirit. Im sad that Bosnians are now breaking that spirit with all corruption and missing jobs, broken industry etc.

Anyway on one day, 22.7.1995. Serbs fired 3.777 granates. Imagine. In whole siege more then 50.000 tones of projectiles hit the city.

I could post you youtube video of Merkale massacre but its too bloody and mods would deleted thread.

Search for Vukovar 1991.

Or for Srebrenica masscre.

Ante Gotovina is hero.

Thanks for your support. I drink with you.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Celebration in Split.

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History in making. Day that shook Croatia. Madness strikes here. Croatia is on fire.

Edited November 17, 2012 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Helena I lied.

Edited November 17, 2012 by the L

[odas]

Hey L. Sober yet or still celebrating?

[odas]

I was going thru bosnian and serbian newspapers. While bosnians are welcoming tge release of the general (except the Abdic people, of course) the serbs are outraged. There are calls for war. But this aint gonna happen. I personaly whant to thank the General because Oluja directly shifted the war towards freeing not only Croatia but also BiH. Ante gave us wings, bigger and better then any energy drink could do.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hey L. Sober yet or still celebrating?

Both. Thanks for concern.

What can I say. His first words after he slept in Zagreb and when he open doors, he said to journalists: "You are here so long...Come drink a coffe."

Even more better he would not ask money from International court.

"I do not want to waste energy on compensation, but this time I want to spent with my family"

I must say that Im glad that General bring message of peace. While his soldiers stand in front of him and say: "General, we are waiting for your command." He respond; "War is over, lets turn on future."

Edited November 17, 2012 by the L

[Helen of Annoy]

Helena I lied.

[Mr.United_Nations]

There was or is a serbian member who blamed everything on the west and Croatia.

[odas]

There was or is a serbian member who blamed everything on the west and Croatia.

The problem with serbia after the war is that they are trying to put equal blame on all sides involved. They still can not come to terms that it was serbia who divided yugoslavia, who attacked slovenia, croatia, bosnia, kosovo. Serbian mytholigy plays still, unfortunately, a big part in their dayly life and new myths are added. Why? Noone cant explain.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

There was or is a serbian member who blamed everything on the west and Croatia.

Croats defeated them and ruind their plans for Great Serbia. And they didnt wnat to settle down so NATO bomb them.

There is a lot of politic and history involved.

Balkan was always turmoil area. And Serbs with their megalomaniac plans doesnt help at all.

Croats were historicly friends with Germans, Austrians, Vatican due 90% Chatolic citizens and in recent history with USA ,Ireland, Iceland etc...Bosnia. They in sense saw Viena as center of world.Ofcourse its not must thing. But now they see Bruxelles and Washington. Personally , economicly looking thats bad compating to out neighbours who are seek theic chance for stable market in diffrent lands such as Russia (BRIC) or Turkey (Next11).

Bosniaks are friendly with Turks, Croatia, Kosovo. They have economic connection with Iraq, Lybia , Arab lands and so on. They in a sense see Istanbul as center of world. Ofcourse its not must thing.

Serbs are friendly with as they call them Orthodox brothers. Russians, Belorussians, Greeks, Ukrainians. But Moscow is their center of world.Ofcourse its not must thing.

Serbs were also good with English, Dutch and French.

Its complicated to understand if you dont know history background. It goes from Ottoman empire, Balkan wars, WW 1 and WW2.

Point is that Serbs in ex Yugoslav wars were put under such propaganda which convinced them that they were doing right thing.

Its left over of pro Serbian/chetniks socialists or better communists, who can also be found in Croatia and Serbia.

That parallel power in my country for instance try to put War of indenpendence in mud. They constantly repeat same thing. Their propaganda is still on power.

"We must prosecute war crimes in Oluja." Guess what? We are glad that we will do it. In fact we do it. Lawyer Hodak for instance work on big cases which Croatian soldiers are on trial.

So saying that its send message that we dont prosecuate our crimes. Which is lie. We do. But they only say that-Oluja. When Croat hand was upper hand. And where by International war crime court in Hague theres 40 unsolved murders. Yup 40. Now lets take for instance Vukovar where we have 1000 civil victims. In Ovčara alone 250 citizens are killed.

Croatia goverment want to put on trial all crimes in war of independence not just in Oluja. From beging to end. Which pro Serbian Yugoslav followers doesnt want. Because that way picture is bright. That they were agressors. And not to mention Bosnia.

However I will stress out that we as contry dont have jurisdiction to call serbian citizens to investigate those 40 civil deaths which Huage and Carla del Ponte wanted to link to Gotovina. So how can we solve those crimes when witnes or them can be called to questioned about them. How can we investigate those crimes?

Now thats where International court step in. They have had and have jurisdiction. Yet they didnt questioned. Its again Caral Del Ponte mistake.

Croatia was victim of Serbian agression and Croatia press charges against Serbia for that. Im sure we will win.Croatia is constantly puting charges on individual crime.

Every normal common person know that they were agressors. And we as winners must constantly re checked our liberation war because of their mad propaganda.

Yet Carla Del Ponte fail to catch Serbs responsible for Vukovar.

But Im glad that over 100 Serbs who done war crimes are in jail who were all followers of mad man Milošević and his team.

[Helen of Annoy]

The war is now over, our freedom was finally legally blessed, but times won’t stop being interesting.

The most intriguing details waiting to emerge are certainly the origin of “overuse of artillery” and “joint criminal enterprise” accusations, as well as huge geopolitical consequences these legal novelties were supposed to bring.

Theodor Meron, the judge who threw these away, literally saved the future of my country and my sanity too.

If liberating our country was proven to be a “joint criminal enterprise”, if extremely cautious use of artillery while doing so was proven as an “overuse”, then the whole Homeland war would be stained as criminal and Serbian aggressor would hold on to that legal perversion in their never ceasing desire to “unite three Serbias in one”. (“Three Serbias” would be territories in Croatia, Bosnia and mainland Serbia, “wherever one Serbian grave could be found” – I quote Greater Serbian ideologists that stand behind this whole hell on Earth.)

The “evacuation” of Serbs was ordered and organized by Serbia (namely Milošević and his ilk, both ideological and military) and carried out by Serbian paramilitary forces, supported by JA (former JNA, Jugoslavenska armija, in nature illegally seized inventory of former JNA under Serbian command).

Documents that prove this with no shade of doubt – luckily – still exist, few months ago I translated one in one of the threads here (general evacuation order signed by Mile Martić, leader of illegal Serbian paramilitary forces in Croatia).

So, what possessed the prosecutor del Ponte to invent new crimes and judge Orie to accept them, not only as crimes existing in theory but also as proven crimes of the accused?

If Croats were savages and had orders to kill Serbian civilians during operation Oluja, it would be easy, genocide, therefore country made on genocide. If the artillery truly was overused, again, easy, country made on war crime. Greater Serbian ghouls would have legal ground to **** on our heads for another 100 years.

But, god damn it, Croats failed and while some of our towns were totalled by Serbian artillery, our artillery kept our towns virtually intact.

Of course, you idiots, why would Croatian army shell the crap out of our own towns? We are home here, remember? Unlike those who pulverized my hometown. And Carla del Ponte wasn’t motivated to persecute them, though they did overuse the artillery. Particularly on hospitals.

Remember Serbian general Ratko Mladić? Currently on trial in Hague, but not for war crimes in Croatia. No. No overuse of artillery, no murdered civilians, no joint criminal enterprise. Like he never set his hoof on Croatian soil. His trial drags on and on, for war crimes in Bosnia, but as far as ICTY is concerned, nothing happened in Croatia. Is that interesting or what?

The war was fought against Serbian aggressor force in Croatia and in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

No battle was fought in Serbia, not a fart was released on or towards Serbia.

Is it possible to hide that fact under pile of sentences that aim to equalize the guilt? Sure. With some immoral effort, you can not only whitewash the aggressor, you can also turn him into victim. And install him back in power, to rule over fourth (!) Yugoslavia. Over my dead body.

I can’t wait to get to know who, how, when, for how much and so on. Who wanted to draw new map of Europe on skin of Croatian generals?

And how come that oh, so clever plan failed so unceremoniously?

Maybe the **** avalanche (that can be heard starting in current president of UN General Assembly office) will somehow be stopped, but to be honest, I think I deserve to see that show. Think of it as small compensation for months under overused Serbian artillery that I've inexplicably survived. I forgive them air raids and small arms, but I'll never, ever forgive the artillery.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Helen of Annoy

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hi Helen.

Is this what you talking about?

In this doucment Serbian leader Milan Martić ,on 4th August 1994 ordered Serbs to leave Croatia.

On another hand President of CroatiaTudjman was calling them to stay in their country Croatia.

I remembered. You translated it.

Republic of Srpska Krajina

Supreme Defence Council

Knin, August 04th 1995

16.45

Number 2-3113-1/95

Due to recent situation development (...) open general aggression of Republic of Croatia on Republic of Srpska Krajina and after first initial successes in defence, the large part of territories of North Dalmatia and part of Lika are in danger, therefore

WE DESIDE (they probably meant “decide”, it reads “ohlučujemo” instead of “odlučujemo”)

1. To start (...) evacuation of all population unfit for combat out of opštine (counties) Knin, Benkovac, Obrovac, Drniš i Gračac.

2. Evacuation is to be conducted (...) according to prepared plans (...) direction Otrić towards Srb and Lapac.

3. For evacuation (...) has to be asked from UNPROFOR CommAND (I think whoever typed this was in a huRRY) with headquarters in Knin.

Knin, August 04th 1995

President of the Republic

Milan Martić

Signed at 17.20 on August 04th 1995 and classified under above code.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Many have forgotten about unfair media lynch againstprof. Kresimir Mihajlovic. Its a primary school principal 'Peter Zrinski' which became 'former director' the moment as he in his school put pictures of Generals Gotovina and Markač. Now that is Croatia.

Our school director loose his job because he puts picture of Gotovina. I hope he will get his job back now.

[Helen of Annoy]

Not so fast. Politics may use military, but military must not use politics. The hierarchy is clear. Pictures of personal choice are hanged at home.

You couldn’t have pictures of generals wanted by Hague hanging in public offices. Period. Not a matter of choice, but order.

You couldn’t refuse international court, it would make you look guilty as hell. Period. Not a matter of choice, but logic.

Now the interesting part:

You could have had generals taking trip to Hague, having a chat in witness status, going back home, like general Stipetić did – and do not even dream of saying a negative word about him! – but if you had certain someone (Šeks, who is looking for Gotovina to meet him so he can explain how he didn’t say what whole nation heard him say and how he wasn’t behind the whole plot that complicated lives of generals and put whole country at risk) so if you had that certain person in very influential position and with shady political history longer than we both combined are old, of course you had problems too. Šeks had more conspirative names back then, in socialism, than average teen has screen names on the Internet today. And if he soon does not prove us different, it sure looks like he has a lot to hide or find scape goats for.

Croatia must not divide to left and right ever again, Croatia must divide to honest and corrupt.

And stop letting the corrupt go away with excuses, after they nearly buried the country for their own personal interests.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Helen of Annoy

[smurf0852]

I know what happened, I have the scars to always remember,never forget and never forgive. God bless Croatia, God bless Bosnia and Hercegovina.

my lasting memory of this conflict is of my nephew who won an award for protecting a bosnian village against a serb death squad (we served over there at the same time 1994-95) unfortunatly he couldnt live with what he saw and took his own life a few years later after abusing alcohol .i really hope with all my heart the region has a lasting peace .

[odas]

my lasting memory of this conflict is of my nephew who won an award for protecting a bosnian village against a serb death squad (we served over there at the same time 1994-95) unfortunatly he couldnt live with what he saw and took his own life a few years later after abusing alcohol .i really hope with all my heart the region has a lasting peace .

Sorry to hear that smurf. I heard abot few such stories where peacekeepers took their own life after what they witnessed in croatia and bosnia.