Just Dave Posted November 21, 2012 #201 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Actually I know exactly what I wrote. As I said in another post skeptics make conclusions based on evidence and the lack of evidence. There is no evidence for aliens to have been a part of building say the Great Pyramid. Among the evidence we do have available is: Worker camps designed to house thousands of workers and The remains of a ramp found on the south side of the Great Pyramid. Aliens from a technologically advanced race would not have needed thousands of humans in work crews nor would they have needed ramps. So by applying a little logic we can see that aliens didn't build the Great Pyramid. The same process can and has been applied to the other great structures. There is no evidence for a God in any form, but 95% of the world belives in him, even though he never existed, like this little green man and yet "God" was present back in J.Christ times he walked this earth like a boss and they still all believe the scared book that MAN wrote... why would it be so hard to believe that at some point in our past aliens did came here, on our earth and do some " i am god, worship me! " and later out of that ( for egypt still ) every king/Pharao who ruled at the time was entitled God, since lets say those sneaky greenies left this piece of primitive rock and left throne room empty so the people needed a new god ( well semi god ). So they elected a new president! That is a veeeery loooong shot but is more possible than Jezus Christ for example... You got whole book of "miracles" and people tend to believe that more than aliens what an irony... No offence but people need to realize that there is no such thing as a god if there was one we would have records about it and he would probably still be in touch . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted November 21, 2012 #202 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Yeah, that's why public news groups have lost popularity imo. There you can say what you want, but in these moderated groups you can only say what whoever decides to let you say. So from my pov people who do forums should make the *majority!* of them open to people saying what they feel, but having "safe" forums where some people can go hide from the stuff they don't like if they can't handle the free zones. But that's just me, and apparently most people don't like the free zones. You folks don't have one at all, do you? OT: Their popularity declined after the major IP's stopped carrying them on account of the porn. There are moderated usenet groups too. It's about the only way you can run one in alt. without the group getting flooded with spam and trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGirl Posted November 21, 2012 #203 Share Posted November 21, 2012 There are several such references in ancient artwork. A good chunk of this is explained very well in this part of the Ancient Aliens Debunked film. There are a lot of other resources as well, but that's a really good place to start because it shows similar examples of the imagery used and explains their symbolic meanings in both historical and religious context. great link - thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted November 21, 2012 #204 Share Posted November 21, 2012 There are several such references in ancient artwork. A good chunk of this is explained very well in this part of the Ancient Aliens Debunked film. There are a lot of other resources as well, but that's a really good place to start because it shows similar examples of the imagery used and explains their symbolic meanings in both historical and religious context. Was aiming for a specific indian picture, where there was this weird huge flying machine coming out from the clouds, but i failed to find it, but i found something better nothing to do with AAs but it has to do to with flying machines in history at least Indias The ancient flying machines According to the revered Indian Vedas Sanskrit writings, vimanas were flying machines. The word vimana is still used today in the modern Indian language to refer to aircraft. While most vimanas were used for transportation through the atmosphere, some were described as being used to travel into space while others were a form of limited submarine. Just like modern aircraft, the vimanas had various configurations and sizes depending on what they were designed to accomplish. Some had two engines, like the agnihotra-vimana; others, like the gaja-vimana, had more. In all there may have been as many as a dozen different types of vimanas all designed for different purposes. Most of them flew. Link to full article here. I am not saying it si true but i'll do some exploring that way... Anyways i did reading on the link you gave quite informative... i didn't knew they didn't showed full detail paintings and what certain UFOs .... err .. symbols were ( that goes for that picture where AA theorists say there was a war of factions or whatever.... black and white crosses on the sky ). Well thanks for help boon did blow away some mist around that matter...Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booNyzarC Posted November 21, 2012 #205 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Was aiming for a specific indian picture, where there was this weird huge flying machine coming out from the clouds, but i failed to find it, but i found something better nothing to do with AAs but it has to do to with flying machines in history at least Indias The ancient flying machines According to the revered Indian Vedas Sanskrit writings, vimanas were flying machines. The word vimana is still used today in the modern Indian language to refer to aircraft. While most vimanas were used for transportation through the atmosphere, some were described as being used to travel into space while others were a form of limited submarine. Just like modern aircraft, the vimanas had various configurations and sizes depending on what they were designed to accomplish. Some had two engines, like the agnihotra-vimana; others, like the gaja-vimana, had more. In all there may have been as many as a dozen different types of vimanas all designed for different purposes. Most of them flew. Link to full article here. I am not saying it si true but i'll do some exploring that way... Anyways i did reading on the link you gave quite informative... i didn't knew they didn't showed full detail paintings and what certain UFOs .... err .. symbols were ( that goes for that picture where AA theorists say there was a war of factions or whatever.... black and white crosses on the sky ). Well thanks for help boon did blow away some mist around that matter...Cheers! Ah yes, these are discussed in the film as well, right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted November 21, 2012 #206 Share Posted November 21, 2012 No that is not true. This is not wild assed guessing, that is the realm of those wingnuts you referred to. It's called process of elimination and scale. If the carving can be done on a small scale, how does that negate the large scale? Why is a full sized model necessary? Process of elimination only works when the population being eliminated from is certain to contain the actual truth. Any ambiguity there and the process fails before it starts. A single full-sized block IS necessary in order to give proper context of both time and tools needed for the job. This information can then be easily applied to determine the requirements for producing many. Attempting to infer all of this from a tiny model introduces too much guesswork to be useful or accurate. If Protzen or anyone else could produce a full-sized model, they would have done so at the outset since that would prove their claim better than anything else by using truly rigorous methods. But they can't. And Protzen isn't about to dedicate years of his career chipping away at something that will ultimately prove him wrong, is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted November 21, 2012 #207 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Really? You expect someone to completely re-create the entire thing before you'll accept that it could have been done by human beings? Do you have that same ridiculous expectation for the pyramids at Giza too? Of course not, silly. A single H-block will do nicely for scientific purposes. See my previous post^^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted November 21, 2012 #208 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Surely, if we're being logical about God we should start not at "god exists, but couldn't have existed on Earth therefore he's an alien" but rather at "God exists as he is presented in the only text that directly references him - the Bible". The next step would be to disprove that he exists as presented in the Bible. The step after that is to present what else he could exist as. After that it's a process of elimination, taking each of those previously presented possibilities and "stress testing" them - the options that come to mind are "he doesn't exist at all", "he was from Atlantis/some other previous super-civilisation" "he's an alien from the planet Gallifrey" or "he's a talking mouse with a time-machine and a zany assistant called Pinky". Given the only one of those options that doesn't rely on proving something else as yet unproven we're left with the two most likely positions - he either exists as presented in the bible or he doesn't exist at all. Edited November 21, 2012 by Wearer of Hats 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted November 21, 2012 #209 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Surely, if we're being logical about God we should start not at "god exists, but couldn't have existed on Earth therefore he's an alien" but rather at "God exists as he is presented in the only text that directly references him - the Bible". The next step would be to disprove that he exists as presented in the Bible. The step after that is to present what else he could exist as. After that it's a process of elimination, taking each of those previously presented possibilities and "stress testing" them - the options that come to mind are "he doesn't exist at all", "he was from Atlantis/some other previous super-civilisation" "he's an alien from the planet Gallifrey" or "he's a talking mouse with a time-machine and a zany assistant called Pinky". Given the only one of those options that doesn't rely on proving something else as yet unproven we're left with the two most likely positions - he either exists as presented in the bible or he doesn't exist at all. You've got my head spinning on that one! Yet isn't the general concept of 'God' (by any other name) referenced in texts outside the bible? What's in a name? Perhaps what you're touching upon is the likely reality that attempting to apply a process of elimination to an infinite population is a fool's errand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted November 21, 2012 #210 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) the God to which Nopeda is eferring appears to be the Judeo-Christian one, and as such there is only one "primary" source for information, the Bible (and the Torah etc) all other sources referring to this deity refer to him via that source (ie chruches etc). And as sysiphean as it may be, what I've suggested is what Nopeda should be doing if they want to prove their point and noy just tilt at windmills and stand in speakers xorner shouting nonsense. Edited November 21, 2012 by Wearer of Hats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted November 21, 2012 #211 Share Posted November 21, 2012 And Protzen isn't about to dedicate years of his career chipping away at something that will ultimately prove him wrong, is he? Nor is he going to dedicate years on something that proves him right if he has already established reasonable doubt. You know, something that reasonable people possess. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted November 22, 2012 #212 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Well, I thought it was OBVIOUS that the 'global elite' was trying to brainwash and hide the truth from us. That's why I never bothered to mention in.... Ohh yeah, it is only the Illuminati keeping the speed if light restricted to 186,282 mps... But we keep that under wraps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted November 22, 2012 #213 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Ohh yeah, it is only the Illuminati keeping the speed if light restricted to 186,282 mps... But we keep that under wraps Well, of course. It couldn't possibly be anything like physics that does that. I'll bet they're in league with the reptilian aliens that were surely engineered by yet another as of yet unidentified alien race that also made pyramids with their advanced technology but left enough evidence to make it look like there was no advanced tech used at all. One thing that no AA enthusiast has been able to answer, why the hell would aliens help humans make pyramids? What the hell is the point? Why not give them medicine or technology. No. We're just gonna help you pill all these rocks of top on one another.... Edited November 22, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted November 22, 2012 #214 Share Posted November 22, 2012 One thing still puzzles me about this AA show, when i was watching it back then, in one episode they showed alot of pictures, old in origin, but they all had one thing in common they all had pictures of flying machines i'll try to find that episode. They've made a nice solid case about how people pictured something in the sky i guess, But they didn't understand the basic of mechanics even less the basics of flight... so why would they draw those?? If you show some examples I am sure explanations can be offered. The "Eye of Providence" is one artifact very typical in all historical record, and features heavily in many forms of art. It is commonly described as a UFO by the AA people (Funny it is hard to not see that abbreviation as Alcoholics anonymous) when it most certainly is not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted November 22, 2012 #215 Share Posted November 22, 2012 ...(Funny it is hard to not see that abbreviation as Alcoholics anonymous)... Alcoholics Anonymous has a 12 step program, the AA proponents only need 1, look a little closer at all the evidence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted November 22, 2012 #216 Share Posted November 22, 2012 One thing that no AA enthusiast has been able to answer, why the hell would aliens help humans make pyramids? What the hell is the point? Why not give them medicine or technology. No. We're just gonna help you pill all these rocks of top on one another.... Stargate answer.... "to land their spaceships on". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted November 22, 2012 #217 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Was aiming for a specific indian picture, where there was this weird huge flying machine coming out from the clouds, but i failed to find it, but i found something better nothing to do with AAs but it has to do to with flying machines in history at least Indias The ancient flying machines According to the revered Indian Vedas Sanskrit writings, vimanas were flying machines. The word vimana is still used today in the modern Indian language to refer to aircraft. While most vimanas were used for transportation through the atmosphere, some were described as being used to travel into space while others were a form of limited submarine. Just like modern aircraft, the vimanas had various configurations and sizes depending on what they were designed to accomplish. Some had two engines, like the agnihotra-vimana; others, like the gaja-vimana, had more. In all there may have been as many as a dozen different types of vimanas all designed for different purposes. Most of them flew. Link to full article here. I am not saying it si true but i'll do some exploring that way... Anyways i did reading on the link you gave quite informative... i didn't knew they didn't showed full detail paintings and what certain UFOs .... err .. symbols were ( that goes for that picture where AA theorists say there was a war of factions or whatever.... black and white crosses on the sky ). Well thanks for help boon did blow away some mist around that matter...Cheers! One massive hole we have here, is that we also have plans. Mate, that seriously is not leaving the ground. And nobody has constructed these plans that are publicly available, and I would say that is for obvious reasons. This is just not going to happen. I would love to be proven wrong, thing is we have the scripts, and as you see even drawings. Yet not one flying Vimana. If the above could fly, I propose that it would have been done by now. ETA But that is not to say that the Indian Scholars from this time period were not absolutely brilliant. Da Vinci also modeled flying machines that did not take of. Edited November 22, 2012 by psyche101 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted November 22, 2012 #218 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Process of elimination only works when the population being eliminated from is certain to contain the actual truth. Any ambiguity there and the process fails before it starts. I disagree, scale does not negate a finding. You are assuming it does without explanation. That is what you above objection is based upon is it not? A single full-sized block IS necessary in order to give proper context of both time and tools needed for the job. This information can then be easily applied to determine the requirements for producing many. Attempting to infer all of this from a tiny model introduces too much guesswork to be useful or accurate. No it does not. We build everything from mining equipment to high rise building from scaled models, and it does not result in the end product differing to the scaled model. As long as the materials are the same, and the method is the same, what works on a small scale works o a big scale. That is just how all construction works. If Protzen or anyone else could produce a full-sized model, they would have done so at the outset since that would prove their claim better than anything else by using truly rigorous methods. But they can't. And Protzen isn't about to dedicate years of his career chipping away at something that will ultimately prove him wrong, is he? And who is going to pay him to sit on a block carving it for as many years as need be? Of course he is not going to spend years proving one aspect that can be proven by scaled models in what is considered a reasonable amount of time. I do not see why a full sized model is necessary. Stone and tool hardness remain the same, resistance remains the same, methodology and materials remains the same, what is the varying factor? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted November 22, 2012 #219 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Stargate answer.... "to land their spaceships on". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted November 22, 2012 #220 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Needs more Devastator Spotted Wally the Raptor though, nice touch. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted November 22, 2012 #221 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Well, of course. It couldn't possibly be anything like physics that does that. I'll bet they're in league with the reptilian aliens that were surely engineered by yet another as of yet unidentified alien race that also made pyramids with their advanced technology but left enough evidence to make it look like there was no advanced tech used at all. I find it amusing that those promoting their "advanced insight" into the reptillian population seem to not be advanced enough to relise their depiction's are nonsense. Most of these Reptilian "recreations" have nipples like we do, but by definition, that make the Reptillian not a reptile at all. One thing that no AA enthusiast has been able to answer, why the hell would aliens help humans make pyramids? What the hell is the point? Why not give them medicine or technology. No. We're just gonna help you pill all these rocks of top on one another.... I think the general anser is "Power Plant" Chris Dunn promotes that claptrap. Alcoholics Anonymous has a 12 step program, the AA proponents only need 1, look a little closer at all the evidence. That makes them more thorough and more professional. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted November 22, 2012 #222 Share Posted November 22, 2012 186,282 mps ! Who in this part of the dark poorly lit galaxy travels at such slow speeds ? Im bettin that some where out there they are zippin around hundreds of times faster than that !~~~~~~~~~>ZIPPTEY DO DAH ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted November 22, 2012 #223 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Needs more Devastator Edited November 22, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted November 22, 2012 #224 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Ohh yeah, it is only the Illuminati keeping the speed if light restricted to 186,282 mps... But we keep that under wraps Who says you can't move stones with sound? Who keeps the speed of photons down? We do! We do! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseCuster Posted November 22, 2012 #225 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Who keeps down the electric car? We do, we do!!! Who rigs every Oscar night... Who robs cavefish of their sight! We do, we do!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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