psyche101 Posted December 3, 2012 #501 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Well said psyche. I find the twisting of ancient cultures to force fit them into any alien hypothesis to be downright deplorable. Most often the claims are rooted quite firmly in ignorance and omission of facts without regard for historical accuracy or truth. It's charlatanism, without a doubt. Gidday Mate It is pretty darn bad IMHO. and I am getting a little worried that many future generations will miss out on true culture to be fed some ancient aliens crap. I have kids, and I want them to have a well rounded education. If they want to offload their knowledge at a later date, that is fine with me, but I think everyone should get a reasonable head-start before this sort of nonsense is allowed to creep in. Definitely going to complain to my Government, and Rex Gilroy will be at the top of my list. In fact, I am not sure why these clowns have been allowed to rape culture in the first instance. It's nothing short of vandalism. Cheers. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted December 3, 2012 #502 Share Posted December 3, 2012 No the only reason why AA authors sell millions of books is because the world is filled by gullible people who are so bored.. upset or lost that they need to believe that there is some mythical race of aliens out there who are going to fix the worlds problems.. There is no proof.. and I really mean.. no proof that aliens helped many throughout the ages.. and I mean.. no proof.. so to be honest.. until you can proove it without a doubt.. ie.. a piece of machinery.. or tool of non earthly construction.. your just blowing smoke.. There is circumstantial evidence of alien visitation, perhaps even direct evidence. That some folks do not accept that evidence, or rationalize it away, does not really change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted December 3, 2012 #503 Share Posted December 3, 2012 There is circumstantial evidence of alien visitation, perhaps even direct evidence. Nope. And if we had direct evidence, you wouldn't need the caveat of your perhaps in that sentence. That some folks do not accept that evidence, or rationalize it away, does not really change anything. It's not rationalized away, it is simply not there. Cheers, Badeskov 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaden Posted December 3, 2012 #504 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Well said psyche. I find the twisting of ancient cultures to force fit them into any alien hypothesis to be downright deplorable. Most often the claims are rooted quite firmly in ignorance and omission of facts without regard for historical accuracy or truth. It's charlatanism, without a doubt. As I headed into the computer room this morning, I was formulating in my mind a post dealing with these people and how, in my opinion, they are all guilty of criminal fraud. (Not related to this subject, but Hoagland tops the list) Then I read psyche 101's diatribe. I may yet do something along these lines, but it won't be as good. Thank you, sir, well done. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted December 3, 2012 #505 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I myself am a sorta unique kind of Christian, but a Christian none the less. Even if the Ancient Alien theory were true, it doesn't suddenly refute the existance of God, angels, Chirst being the son of God, or the afterlife. indeed, as I always say, it would make no difference whether early Humans did come from some other Planet from that point of view, since a God that only applied tot his planet would be a fairly limited sort of God, and surely the point of God is that he would eb the God of the whole Universe, and obviously, God would take human form to humans, that's only logical since that would be the only way they could comprehend him. Mars is an extraterrestrial planet Indeed it is, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synchronomy Posted December 3, 2012 #506 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I would appear to me, that this thread has really thrashed out the debate on the AA theory. I am wondering if any members that have been following this thread have been convinced to change their views one way or another. So if you believed in the AA theories, and now lean towards conventional theories that ancient man build everything themselves, then please chime in. Likewise, if you adhered to the conventional theories that ancient man was responsible for their own architecture, and now believe ancient aliens helped them with it, let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted December 3, 2012 #507 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I would appear to me, that this thread has really thrashed out the debate on the AA theory. I am wondering if any members that have been following this thread have been convinced to change their views one way or another. So if you believed in the AA theories, and now lean towards conventional theories that ancient man build everything themselves, then please chime in. Likewise, if you adhered to the conventional theories that ancient man was responsible for their own architecture, and now believe ancient aliens helped them with it, let us know. I'm always curious to know if any of the silent observers ever change their perspective because of the contributions to any individual thread. I would like to think so, there is an awful lot of amazing information put forth around here. Or perhaps they sit back with a smirk on their face as this is all just entertainment for them. Little bit of both probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted December 3, 2012 #508 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) This makes a round hole. Your ignorance inexperience with hand tools is showing... So has the copper tube idea been abandoned then? Instead a quick trip to Wall Mart for a hole cutter? These are actually designed for wood; they may struggle a bit with red granite. Also it's no good Wall Mart picking a hardened steel tool, it would have had to have been copper. Edited December 3, 2012 by zoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted December 3, 2012 #509 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I would appear to me, that this thread has really thrashed out the debate on the AA theory. I am wondering if any members that have been following this thread have been convinced to change their views one way or another. So if you believed in the AA theories, and now lean towards conventional theories that ancient man build everything themselves, then please chime in. Likewise, if you adhered to the conventional theories that ancient man was responsible for their own architecture, and now believe ancient aliens helped them with it, let us know. The tribe of ancients that built Puma Punku was the Aymara. Here are their ancestors, 2000 (conservatively) years developed from what they were back then: Master Builders par excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted December 3, 2012 #510 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Why do you think copper could not be used? It is maleable. It can be heated and easily shaped perfectly around a mould. You do not have to make a thing round if you can find something round to bash it into shape. Do you know that the terms "Leading edge" and "Abrasion" Mean? Diamond is much harder than any of this, yet how is it possible for modern man to cut Diamond? Nothing harder exists! Is ET working in Jeweller shops all over the globe? It does not matter if you have a drill that is a billion revolutions a minute does it? A steel drill bit is not going to mark it is it? Is my wife's wedding ring an ET manufactured item? Do you know how to saw cut a Diamond Zoser? You use a phosphor-bronze blade. Yes, today. How does Bronze cut Diamond Zoser? And down to those tiny little facets? Such detail! Does this mean all Jewellers must be alien? Amazing you still canot see what is going on around you. That "hole" that you think is getting deeper is just those rising above you and out of the darkness, which you are trying to keep everyone in, for company I assume. All we are seeing is that you are not simply ignorant, but deliberately ignorant. Examples have been placed before you, but you have no intention of attempting to understand them you are much happier claiming them science fiction and trying to come up with some philosophical BS to make yourself sound clever. That BS stopped being clever about 500 years ago. People have been very patient trying to explain this to you in baby speak, but surprisingly to all, even that is insufficient. I can only echo Imaginarynumber1;s sentiment in that I believe you are simply trolling. Nobody is dim witted enough to continue to support Joe Escimilla, let alone that shameless and ousted charlatan Stitchin. You have now clearly exposed your agenda here. For you to advocate that clown is outright proof that you have no interest in the subject whatsoever, only the controversy you can stir up within it. Understand is the word you are seeking and you context appear to be following your claims. Back to front. All claims have been substantiated. Your limited experience and knowledge has also been adequately qualified. I feel embarrassed for you with some of the statements you have made in this thread. Such as this very one I am responding to right now. If you had a case you would take one of those examples and show us in detail why it is not a viable option. Instead you have chosen the option to whine without cause. That alone says everything a person needs to know. You wish to remain deliberately ignorant, and that is your prerogative. Considering substantiation, do you realise the significance of this particular offcut? or this one, both of which answer your inane objections? I beg your pardon? Where do you get that statistic from? I do not even know a person personally who has seen a single episode. It does not even air on FTA TV here to the best of my knowledge, you would have to pay for it. And that is a horrendous waste of money. I have thought of downloading the series from torrent sites, but I have decided it is not even worth the download. Tempting as it is to have a good laugh at Giorgio's hair, but nothing else about the show is enticing to any but the most intellectually limited. Only a handful are dim enough to actually swallow this claptrap. I think you will find that out the the majority of those who do enjoy a good fable in this vein do so for entertainment value. That is a blatant lie, outright. Made up by yourself to try to get more people to hold your hand in the dark. You're on you're own Zoser. Maybe Bee will visit you. Please prove this claim Zoser. It is not only a lie, it is offensive. Your personal wishes do not constitute a movement. Your view of the UFO phenomena might, but not with the same meaning, but I digress. Good God man. You have no problem at all with making things up on the fly do you? Another lie, you saying "I don't believe it" does not constitute a valid rebuttal. It's like a neon sign displaying your personal ignorance of the subject. And this is the only reason yo do not believe it, you refuse to allow yourself to understand it. They are not Ad Hoc assumptions, these are methods still in use in the region today. You have even been provided with photo's proving the practise remains in use. That you are too lazy to understand, and put it into practise in no way negates the facts provided. All that has been negated is your evaluation. And by way of nonsense. Quite frankly, if I got things wrong as often, and as blatantly as you, I would be trying to learn by now. I have only seen you go backwards, and the only poster in the history of UM to do so to date. Do not let the door hit you on the behind on your way out. And people say I'm not compassionate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrom901 Posted December 3, 2012 #511 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The tribe of ancients that built Puma Punku was the Aymara. Here are their ancestors, 2000 (conservatively) years developed from what they were back then: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synchronomy Posted December 3, 2012 #512 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The tribe of ancients that built Puma Punku was the Aymara. Here are their ancestors, 2000 (conservatively) years developed from what they were back then: Master Builders par excellence. Your post seems to infer that the ancestors of the people in the pictures couldn't possibly have accomplished the great feats we are debating here. If that's the case I find that deplorable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted December 3, 2012 #513 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Your post seems to infer that the ancestors of the people in the pictures couldn't possibly have accomplished the great feats we are debating here. If that's the case I find that deplorable. According to conventional archaeological theory they did. You decide if you think it's true. To my knowledge they have found no evidence to suggest that the ancestors of those folk in the pictures were a lot different. Edited December 3, 2012 by zoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted December 3, 2012 #514 Share Posted December 3, 2012 So has the copper tube idea been abandoned then? Instead a quick trip to Wall Mart for a hole cutter? These are actually designed for wood; they may struggle a bit with red granite. Also it's no good Wall Mart picking a hardened steel tool, it would have had to have been copper. You claimed something to the effect that if a tube wasn't perfectly circular it couldn't cut a perfectly round hole. That flat bit proves that it doesn't matter what shape the bit is (round, flat, square, triangular, oval...) it will always make a round hole. You can deflect all you want but the point remains uncontested. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted December 3, 2012 #515 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I do hope you are genuine and willing to stick by your word. Method for defeating gravity? He admitted it was simple leverage, and yes, the same principals have been used on many ancient Monolithic sites. That is a pretty dramatic way of putting it. I beg your pardon. How on earth did you come to that conclusion? I see no evidence for such a wild assumption. You doubt? You do not think a hunter gatherer one day went "Screw this. I am sick of chasing these mongrel things. I am going to pen a few up so I can find them easy". Or did a wife one time throw out the leftovers and notice the seeds propagated? Leading her to think "Hey, this is the go, bugger traipsing the countryside if I can get what I want right here, I am going to drop more seeds". Diamond is used to cut diamond. What is your objection to sand cutting sand? You have seen the tools what remains do you expect? I showed you a roman power tool, I do not think I ever received a response, what would you even expect from that other than plans? I'd like to see you discuss a subject if that is the case. Unless I am mistaken I have left a lengthy response on this subject before, which I believe you never responded to. I understand such is purely voluntary, however if you truly do wish to discuss the subject with common sense, I would have expected you to have responded to that post. If you do have something genuine that remains an enigma with regards to this particular subject I urge you to share your discovery. And in the interests of common sense, I suspect that you would be willing to hear as many sound possibilites as do exist. With all due respect sir, your position is utterly dependent upon "maybe", "perhaps", "it is possible", and similar terms. Shoulda, coulda, woulda is never a compelling argument on subjects like this, so my apologies for not having responded to any previous posts of yours in detail. The old man in Homestead had 1 tripod with some chain and pulleys, and a curious box at the apex. Imagine how big the tripod must have been to build the great pyramid. What is that little black box at the apex? Why did they find no tools or implements at Puma Punko? There are so many "why" questions, and the answers offered by you are not convincing IMO. Maybe you're right, but at this point in my analysis, it's not persuasive at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted December 3, 2012 #516 Share Posted December 3, 2012 You know, as convincing an argument as "look at the descendants of the people who built it today..." is, I have to point out that prior to the renaissance, the descendants of the people who built the Colosseum, the Aquaducts et al were living in thatch huts farming dung (note: this is hyperbole, you had to be very upmarket to be a dung farmer, not just any Tom, Dick or Harry), 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopeda Posted December 3, 2012 #517 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Nicely cut hole Those holes suck. These do too sort of, but they're still very impressive in some ways and it's hard to believe ancient people made them for...uh...any reason... http://is.gd/yqzCO7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopeda Posted December 3, 2012 #518 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Ancients could have pipes as long as they could wish Do you have any idea how long they actually could have made them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted December 3, 2012 #519 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Do you have any idea how long they actually could have made them? Does it matter? In fact a relatively short tube, replaced when needed, would work better than one single long tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopeda Posted December 3, 2012 #520 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Lets use the Great Pyramid as an example. For some time there was no evidence of work crews or ramps that could be tied in with the Great Pyramid so the AA supporters proclaimed "It had to be aliens, there is no evidence humans did it." Now we have the evidence of the work camps that would have housed thousands and the remains of a ramp on the south side of the pyramid, neither of which would have been necessary for aliens to have built the pyramid. How did you find out it wouldn't be necessary for aliens? Even if it wasn't necessary, how do you know that's not how they did it anyway for reasons of their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopeda Posted December 3, 2012 #521 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What could God be other than an alien if he exists? How about exactly as he is depicted in the Bible; A giant machine; The Earth itself? I can come up with examples, can you or is your mind too closed? If God exists with all the things he is supposedly able to do, it would put him well above the most advanced race there could be so he wouldn't be an alien as you have referred to. If God created the Earth, how is he an alien to it? He would be no more of an alien to the Earth than you would be to a house or structure you built. So far, much as you wish, you've been able to suggest nothing else he could be other than an alien. You need to say: 1. how he could be native to a planet he created. 2. how you could have built the place you were born in. Until you can answer both you still have nothing but a strong wish of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopeda Posted December 3, 2012 #522 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The Perry Reese map has never been debunked but the Piri Reis map has. Are you saying they're two different maps or two different ways of spelling the same thing, or don't you know? How are you claiming either or both have been debunked and what are you claiming is the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopeda Posted December 3, 2012 #523 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm referring to some of the well known abilities of "xts" craft, such as stopping on a dime, right angle turns without shedding velocity etc - all of which are impossible under the laws of phsyics. . . . It involves a plank of wood, some string and huge plots of land. If my nieghbour was walking on his garden at midnight I'd not hear that. You don't know whether the abilities you mentioned are impossible or not, and have no way to find out. You also don't seem to have a realistic appreciation for the complexity of most if not all crop circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopeda Posted December 3, 2012 #524 Share Posted December 3, 2012 That pares our decision tree down to two mutually opposing prospects, one rooted in logic and factual evidence, the other in supposition. I know which one I'm going with. So you're going with they were plastered over, carved over, and all the plaster fell out resulting in that group of carvings all looking like different types of air vehicles. In order to ease some of the inner discomfort you have from putting your faith in such an incredibly astounding coincidence IF that's what happened (though by all appearance that is NOT what happened), you're trying to ease the feeling a bit by pretending you can't see how any of the other carvings could resemble any sorts of air vehicles. It's pathetic really, from my pov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted December 3, 2012 #525 Share Posted December 3, 2012 So far, much as you wish, you've been able to suggest nothing else he could be other than an alien. You need to say: 1. how he could be native to a planet he created. 2. how you could have built the place you were born in. Until you can answer both you still have nothing but a strong wish of some sort. You want an answer that doesn't invoke God as the King of King, Judge of Judges, the Lord "I Am" supernatural, omnipotent etc etc? Two words - Time. Travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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