TheSearcher Posted February 25, 2013 #7626 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I still don't understand why people still believe EVD, the man is a self confessed liar and fraud, who had no compunction fabricating evidence or plainly lying about certain facts. He himself admitted making some of the stories up. In the wiki page, the list or errors, admitted lies and frauds, etc, is longer than the life history part. In this article, there is an interview of him and also a NOVA documentary, where he himself admits that a lot of his writings are plain lies or grossly exaggerated. I did also find the elusive playboy article, where he admits to some more fraud. Oh and I found this little thing, the largest stone ever moved by man, is the thunder stone (found in Lakhta, 6 km inland from the Gulf of Finland in 1768), which now serves as pedestal for the Bronze Horseman statue on the Senate Square in Saint Petersburg . It was moved during winter, when the ground was frozen. They then dragged the large stone over the frozen ground to the sea for shipment and transport to the city. The labour was done entirely by humans; no animals or machines were used in bringing the stone from the original site to the Senate Square. If you can read french, read the bit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted February 25, 2013 #7627 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The Thunderstone has already been mentioned, Searcher. But to no avail.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted February 25, 2013 #7628 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The site in ruins. It's been ruined for millenia. Half of it is still buried under mud. Puma Punku that is. Not Tiwanaku. Neither was it constructed by pot smoking indians whose ultimate art was tapestry and the teepee. Yes, they were too brown to be able to do anything that whitey can do. Harte 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted February 25, 2013 #7629 Share Posted February 25, 2013 That no one recalls the build or the demise is too fantastic to be credible. Sorry but it just is the case. Some wag would surely have some story or legend. Yet there is nothing. You are so far out there. Ask most people in central US if they know of the massive earthquake that hit in 1811 and 1812. It rocked 50,000 square miles. The Mississippi had waves flowing north. Yet without doing research, no-one knows of this just 200 years later. You are hitching your wagon to the wrong thoughts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted February 25, 2013 #7630 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Good enough to do accurate designs with? Sounds like science fiction to me. Also Mr O is there a precedent anywhere in history for Indians producing architecture to the precision? I'll let you have a chew on that for a while. Once again he proves he was lying about his engineering background. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSearcher Posted February 25, 2013 #7631 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The Thunderstone has already been mentioned, Searcher. But to no avail.... Dammit.....then again, after 509 pages, one cannot expect anybody to remember all the things said or retorted. I still hold it to Humanity 1 - Soft Stone Boy 0. 1200 ton blocks were moved by manual labor, evidence is given. Logistics are given. Just listen to the stones, they tell the story...... Once again he proves he was lying about his engineering background. Doesn't really surprise anybody I bet..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted February 25, 2013 #7632 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Yes, they were too brown to be able to do anything that whitey can do. Harte 'greenie' Mr HArte, they were too brown to be able to do anything that greenie can do, or wuz it bluey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted February 25, 2013 #7633 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Very doubtful that the AA hypothesis is doing anything but escalating. You must be young or you weren't paying attention back in the 70's. That's when convicted criminal Von Daniken got rich writing "Chariots of the Gods". Millions of people bought this nonsense and believed that aliens in space suits flew to Earth from distant stars using chemically propelled rockets, crudely stacked rocks on top of each other, and then left. The commercial success of this book led to other books with even more incredible claims, several movies, and a popular syndicated television series called "In Search Of...". At least back then we had some excuses. The mainstream media ate this stuff up and didn't bother talking to actual archeologists who had dull explanations for most of Von Daniken's astounding claims. Some of the mysteries in the book really were mysteries at the time and it took years of actual investigation to explain them. We were still excited about having landed on the Moon. The Chariots of the Gods movie said with no doubt that men would be landing on Mars by the end of the century so interstellar travel seemed pretty likely in a hundred years. The Ancient Astronauts idea didn't seem that crazy. But today there is no excuse for any educated person to believe these claims. Most of armchair investigator Von Daniken's claims were shattered by existing evidence and other claims became jokes of muddled thinking (aliens travelling from a distant star wouldn't need artificial landmarks to know where to land!). The rest of his claims were eventually explained by archaeologists investigating the claims. People now know that ancient humans were just as smart as we are. They figured out how to build things using techniques that we no longer use. These days anyone who claims that aliens must have built something is admitting they're ignorant of what humans can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted February 25, 2013 #7634 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) People now know that ancient humans were just as smart as we are. They figured out how to build things using techniques that we no longer use. These days anyone who claims that aliens must have built something is admitting they're ignorant of what humans can do. ^ This. I believe that the problem solving skills of ancient cultures possibly surpassed our own today. Necessity is the mother of invention after all. The cognitive and reasoning abilities of ancient cultures is every bit as good then as it is in us today. The people who believe that the ancients sat around in the mud and grunted at each other (metaphorically speaking) are completely clueless and more than a little insulting. Edited February 25, 2013 by Slave2Fate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 25, 2013 #7635 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) so what will it be this evening then? Shall we say for certainty,. more re-posts of pics of zosers walls? And circular arguments going over all the old ground again. No new evidence, in fact there has NEVER been any evidence but that wont stop him. NO mention of ancient aliens. Complete ignoring of the skeptics posts. Claims that there are 'numerous experts' who now believe this is the way it is. Dismissal of earthquakes, tidal waves, lightening storms, tsunamis, you know things that destroy stuff on earth, because a nuclear bomb 'actually' ruined the site even though they had lazers but they mustn't have been strong enough so it was nuked. (Did he forget the theory that when the aliens ship blasted off it actually blew the walls down too?) Not to mention we KNOW the site was pillaged for its stones to be made into houses elsewhere, and this also is a reason some rocks are found a long way off, people got tired of dragging them and prolly left them where they got tired Then at some point when he watches another segment of the AA series, or gets an update off Foresters FB page - that it will be proudly posted, like that will clinch it for everyone. Have I missed anything else that will happen on the never ending groundhog days we spend here? . Edited February 25, 2013 by seeder 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 25, 2013 #7636 Share Posted February 25, 2013 ^ This. I believe that the problem solving skills of ancient cultures possibly surpassed our own today. Necessity is the mother of invention after all. The cognitive and reasoning abilities of ancient cultures is every bit as good then as it is in us today. The people who believe that the ancients sat around in the mud and grunted at each other (metaphorically speaking) are completely clueless and more than a little insulting. Yes and as we see with the ancient timeline page I posted, PP and its builders were late showing up, the rest of the world was already very civilized...something that zoser cant seem to appreciate. I dont know if he knows just how recent 500 ad was (1500 years ago ZOSER) Really if he just focused on that one tidbit of chronological FACT - it should in reality put the argument to bed. But its not what he WANTS to believe in so he swerves the facts all day long,.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpumper Posted February 25, 2013 #7637 Share Posted February 25, 2013 This is how I picture this thread: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted February 25, 2013 #7638 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I believe that the problem solving skills of ancient cultures possibly surpassed our own today. Necessity is the mother of invention after all. I think we've become numb to problem solving these days because most of it is beyond the average person and intentionally hidden. Look at your cell phone. The battery technology is a result of a series of innovations. The receiver is a collection of innovations in digital reception that were unimagined twenty years ago. Then there's the microprocessor in it that's faster than a desktop computer twenty years ago due to a series of innovations. Hardly anyone knows or cares about this stuff but they expect the next model to be better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted February 25, 2013 #7639 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I think we've become numb to problem solving these days because most of it is beyond the average person and intentionally hidden. Look at your cell phone. The battery technology is a result of a series of innovations. The receiver is a collection of innovations in digital reception that were unimagined twenty years ago. Then there's the microprocessor in it that's faster than a desktop computer twenty years ago due to a series of innovations. Hardly anyone knows or cares about this stuff but they expect the next model to be better. It is debatable whether technology (as a whole) is helping or hindering us as a species. I'm undecided however I tend to lean toward hindering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted February 25, 2013 #7640 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Have I missed anything else that will happen on the never ending groundhog days we spend here? zoser will scold the skeptics for cursing, insulting and behaving childishly even though we've never cursed and we've been impossibly polite and patient with him actively ignoring all of the sensible arguments we've presented to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted February 25, 2013 #7641 Share Posted February 25, 2013 This is how I picture this thread: Yep, pretty much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DingoLingo Posted February 25, 2013 #7642 Share Posted February 25, 2013 this has become my morning ritual.. like now (4.55am here in the west of oz) .. I get up.. make a coffee.. grab my packet of cigarettes and the laptop.. have my coffee.. smoke a ciggy or two.. and read this thread and a couple of others.. its the best way to waste 30 mins to a hour (depending on how many posts have been made ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 25, 2013 #7643 Share Posted February 25, 2013 It is debatable whether technology (as a whole) is helping or hindering us as a species. I'm undecided however I tend to lean toward hindering. I think it dumbs us down quite a bit, I still remember when telephone boxes took 2p, and I knew, as a lad, our home number, that of my grans, my real dad, and the girlfriends that came later... plus the area codes Nowadays, man - I NEED my phone just to remember numbers, as I simply haven't a clue with 99% of the numbers I have. So even in my own life Ive seen my brain get lazy.. Now times that by another couple hundred years of tech and human obesity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted February 25, 2013 #7644 Share Posted February 25, 2013 It is debatable whether technology (as a whole) is helping or hindering us as a species. I'm undecided however I tend to lean toward hindering. That isn't the debate though. The point is that innovation continues to happen at an incredible rate, far faster than in ancient times due to our higher level of education and understanding of the world and our ability to store and recall vast amounts of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 25, 2013 #7645 Share Posted February 25, 2013 This is how I picture this thread: Is it really? Heavens. I think if it as 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 25, 2013 #7646 Share Posted February 25, 2013 zoser will scold the skeptics for cursing, insulting and behaving childishly even though we've never cursed and we've been impossibly polite and patient with him actively ignoring all of the sensible arguments we've presented to him. ooh and I just remembered another...then after a little while...its back to the pyramids !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted February 25, 2013 #7647 Share Posted February 25, 2013 That isn't the debate though. The point is that innovation continues to happen at an incredible rate, far faster than in ancient times due to our higher level of education and understanding of the world and our ability to store and recall vast amounts of information. Oh, I agree that technology has pushed us much farther forward in a shorter time than the ancients had been able to do. Standing on the backs of giants and all that. Is it better to stand on the giant's back, or be the giant though? Anyway, that's a debate best left for a different thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 25, 2013 #7648 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I know, Lets play count the contradictions shall we? [media=] [/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSearcher Posted February 25, 2013 #7649 Share Posted February 25, 2013 It is debatable whether technology (as a whole) is helping or hindering us as a species. I'm undecided however I tend to lean toward hindering. I tend towards helping, rather than hindering. I know you and seeder find it differently, but hear me out. I was watching a science program the other day and the presenter asked a neurologist and general brain specialist the exact same question. According to both it doesn't actually hider us, rather than lets our brain use the opened up space and processing power to different things. As they said, we might not know the numbers anymore, but we know how to get to them easily. Same for the internet for example. We know how to retrieve the needed information easily, as opposed to reading an entire book for one bit of info, we retrieve the info we need more directly, more focused if you will. I could be wrong, but I don't think we are less innovative, but innovations have become more complicated and require more time and brain power, also more technical know-how. Hence we free up space and processing power in our brain and apply it differently with different priorities. And I remember the show now, it was "Dara O'Briain's Science Club" Forth episode if I'm not mistaken. zoser will scold the skeptics for cursing, insulting and behaving childishly even though we've never cursed and we've been impossibly polite and patient with him actively ignoring all of the sensible arguments we've presented to him. I admit I have not allways been nice to him, I do call him Soft Stone Boy, but soddit, he had it coming. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted February 25, 2013 #7650 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I tend towards helping, rather than hindering. I know you and seeder find it differently, but hear me out. I was watching a science program the other day and the presenter asked a neurologist and general brain specialist the exact same question. According to both it doesn't actually hider us, rather than lets our brain use the opened up space and processing power to different things. As they said, we might not know the numbers anymore, but we know how to get to them easily. Same for the internet for example. We know how to retrieve the needed information easily, as opposed to reading an entire book for one bit of info, we retrieve the info we need more directly, more focused if you will. I could be wrong, but I don't think we are less innovative, but innovations have become more complicated and require more time and brain power, also more technical know-how. Hence we free up space and processing power in our brain and apply it differently with different priorities. And I remember the show now, it was "Dara O'Briain's Science Club" Forth episode if I'm not mistaken. Fair point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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