The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

[seeder]

Your saying that glaciers caused this?

What a fascinating thought

By the way the link is here:

http://secretsofthes...trified-stones/

and on that link after the analysis was done ...it says...

"Whilst the spectra do not show explicitly that the surface is vitrified, the layer does have the composition, sheen, hardness and glassy texture of a glaze. It is very likely that the glaze was made from a ceramic paste applied to the limestone surface."

.

Edited March 11, 2013 by seeder

[Oniomancer]

Your saying that glaciers caused this?

What a fascinating thought

By the way the link is here:

http://secretsofthes...trified-stones/

And how, pray tell, do glaciers polish rock? It's ice. Ice should shred on hard granite, right?

Right?

[seeder]

And how, pray tell, do glaciers polish rock? It's ice. Ice should shred on hard granite, right?

Right?

Dont expect an answer Mr O, he logs off soon as he gets his legs smacked! I suspect he hopes when he comes back -that many posts have been made that bury such teasers

[Space Commander Travis]

I'm afraid I'm getting rather bored with Vitrification. If people are going to keep talking about it I'm afraid I may have to find something else to read, perhaps this interesting theory that they never went to the Moon. Perhaps Mr. Z might find it interesting?

[scowl]

So now you appear to be saying that granite isn't hard at all and is in fact easy to split

Do you ever understand anything we write? Have you even seen granite in nature? It almost always layered. In fact much of it is commercially worthless because it falls apart when you quarry it. About a quarter of my state is granite and you'll find granite slides everywhere.

Also that granite on granite gives a nice polished shine

That you can polish one stone with another stone of equal or greater hardness. This is well known.

Also granite can have very flat sides naturally and require very little polishing. I'll look for some photos I took last summer around a glacial lake which had granite outcrops everywhere. You can learn a lot by going outside and looking at these things in real life.

Dream on.

Or of course you could try and prove your point.

You didn't even understand my points! Go back and watch your little YouTube videos.

Since few seem willing to do that here recently I'm not holding my breath.

And I won't be holding my breath for your Ancient Astronauts to return to Earth so we can teach them about concrete.

[scowl]

Still no explanations for the moulding, vitrification and precision joins.

Explain this:

Zoser, what happens when you take a rock and scrape it against another rock of equal hardness?

Answer this question before you continue to ask foolish questions.

[S2F]

I'm afraid I'm getting rather bored with Vitrification. If people are going to keep talking about it I'm afraid I may have to find something else to read, perhaps this interesting theory that they never went to the Moon. Perhaps Mr. Z might find it interesting?

Indeed. Who's to say that some descendant of zoser's in a couple hundred years doesn't claim we couldn't have made it to the moon without alien intervention? Or do people already say that? Please, please tell me people don't already say that...

[S2F]

Zoser, what happens when you take a rock and scrape it against another rock of equal hardness?

Answer this question before you continue to ask foolish questions.

Those rocks look exactly like what stone abrasion would look like. Molding, my ass...

Edited March 11, 2013 by Slave2Fate

[Myles]

Clearly this precision was done by scraping walnuts across this rock.

Please provide evidence that it was not. The burden is on you.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Walnuts?

Are you crazy?

It's clear to me the gnomes employed by the Fair Folk to engrave the lines on that rock were pished that day so they did a straight line that meandered all across the rock.

[DONTEATUS]

Clearly this precision was done by scraping walnuts across this rock.

Please provide evidence that it was not. The burden is on you.

Thats Gotta bee It ! I can see the writing on the Stoned people now ! Lets make a squiggly trough so the Ice cream looks really Kool as it makes it way down from the High Andes to the creamery To be poured into the Hand made little stone bowls that all the common people have to make , Now were getting to the real answers to the AA Theory`s !

[Kludge808]

No, no, guys! It was AIL-E-UNZ! They showed me once during the daily transmissions from the mothership. It was really cool. They used a small ship like Lazar's sports model and on-board phasers to do the cutting. Well, not really phasers 'cuz they're science fiction but the same idea. Zip-zap and it's all done. They even had antigravity beams to put them in place. The local residents only had to stand back and watch. Why do it? Basic artistic whims based on images drawn from the natives' minds. No grand project or anything, just an occasional artistic outlet for the on planet staff. They didn't have a lot of time for that, though. They were too busy with stuff like genetic injunearing, a side result of which was politicians and Paris Hilton. (The latter was a human-alien crossbreeding experiment gone horridly wrong and they've apologized profusely for it.) They also claim responsibility for McDonald's and aren't quite sure if that was a good or bad thing. Anyway, tools & stuff found at the sites were from the local populations trying to duplicate the results and obviously they fell way short. I mean, who can compete with phasers and other cools stuff?

*sigh* ... that was fun but let's get down to reality. It's boring but a necessary part of everyday life. Well, for most of us anyway.

First off, I don't know what sort of engineer Zoser is but I had a split major, Aeronautical (a fancy form of Mechanical) and Electrical. In both, knowing something about materials is necessary although for different reasons. "Something" is not "all about" and I'm smart enough to know that. However, I'm also smart enough to know that copper work hardens and that copper alloys are even stronger. Not a whole lot harder on the Mohs Scale but definitely stronger. For example, not many copper cannons were made while bronze was used for them in significant numbers.

What does that have to do with anything? Bronze was known to both the Egyptians and the Andean natives with the latter using it extensively in the construction of Pumapunku. Okay, so why is that important? Because it give some added insight as to how an assortment of structures were made. It has already been shown that a copper and sand drill works nicely for boring holes in stone - even granite - and the same technology can be used for an assortment of other grinding uses. Using bronze rather than pure copper makes the job somewhat easier although it's still labor intensive. Both societies obviously knew that even though there's only direct evidence that the Egyptians used it. By extension, this leads to a similar knowledge by the Tiwanaku even though no tools have been found to date of which I'm aware. Copper/bronze and sand saws are also known to have been used in Egypt which also extends to the Tiwanaku understanding the same techniques.

Now, before anyone screams that it had to be aliens because the societies are separated by quite a distance, let me make something quite clear. Parallel developments in technology between widely separated cultures exist throughout history. Get used to it since it's a known fact and no aliens are required. Or did aliens also present humans with bows & arrows, spears, knives, an understanding of textiles - spinning & weaving specifically, rope making and a whole great number of other things that also were developed independently? You can't pick & choose which came from aliens and which were human developments.

Someone mentioned splitting the rocks at where ever they were quarried. This depends on climate. Cutting/drilling into the rock using the aforementioned methods is the first step in either case. Can't cut/drill granite*? Since when? Abrasion works wonderfully. It's slow and, as with everything else, labor intensive, but it works. In Egypt, insert dry wooden wedges and add water. The wood expands creating a crack. Continue with this using larger wedges until the piece finally breaks off. At Pumapunku, just add water. At the altitude it was built, all you have to do is wait for it to freeze. We all know water expands as it freezes so it acts like the swelling wood creating a crack in the rock.

* Why are we discussing granite in the first place? Anyway, I'll get to it in a bit.

Pumapunku was built from red sandstone and andesite which is an igneous rock typical to the region. Since it is native to the region, it's a pretty safe bet the locals knew how to work with it. Sandstone's relatively easy to work so there's no magic involved there. Andesite takes a bit more effort but it also was in common use as evidenced by the number of other structures the Tiwanaku built using the same materials and techniques. Pumapunku is unique only that it had religious significance in their creation mythos. Nothing more. It was also built in three phases dating from the 5th century to the 16th century so assuming all of the pretty work was done by the ancients is a bit presumptuous.

Let's look at granite for a moment. That sarkoph ... sarcofi ... dead person holder thingie made of carved granite is significant despite having been regarded as meaningless by A Certain Party. It was made some time around 200AD, memory serving. The ability to do work of that order didn't happen overnight. It took years - centuries - to get it to that point which means the basics of working with granite date well back in history. Several societies including the ancient Egyptians used it in their architecture which gives us several data points to work with in developing a timeline for granite working.

Polishing granite wasn't a much a problem as some would have us think. Again, it's labor intensive but it involves two pieces of granite, the work surface and the tool which can be equally large if not larger, and an abrasive. Corundum - emery, rubies, emeralds and more prosaic forms - which is harder than granite was known into the neolithic era and was available already broken down as "black sand" in the case of emery. Obsidian, another igneous rock, was also known and was chipped into any of a number of useful sharp objects including surgical knives. Obsidian chips are also a good abrasive once pulverized and, of course, sand is as well. Flipping to the other side of the Atlantic, corundum was available in South America, though not in large quantities, and the Tiwanaku did a lot of trading. However, naturally rotted (ie, made into a sand-like state, usually through weathering) andesite would have also been available and it would have made a wonderful abrasive to use in cutting and finishing chunks of andesite.

Something else came to mind as I wrote the above. One method of splitting ricks is to light a fire on the surface to be split along a line where it's supposed to happen. (The rock would likely have been scored or drilled along that line beforehand.) Once the rock's nice hand hot, push the fire out of the way and pour cold water on the same line. A few times like that and thermal stress takes its toll resulting in a crack pretty much where its wanted. Olive oil and charcoal would have been wonderful for such a fire in ancient Egypt and both were available in abundance. I don't know what would have been the olive oil equivalent for the Tiwanaku but they also had charcoal.

Did I offer proof of anything? Not really but no one here can since none of us were there when the structures were being built. Instead what I've offered is a common sense view of how the stones were cut and fitted in both societies using some understanding of history and basic materials without having to resort to magic, aliens, our interdimensional analogs or really short guys named Bob. I fully expect the AA crew to say it's all impossible and the ancients couldn't possibly have possessed such knowledge & talents without offering any evidence of such claims. They'll fly back to their AA explanation and present more pictures which mean absolutely nothing. Why? Because that's all they have and it's easier than doing any real homework.

Oh, wait. I forgot. There's that nasty conspiracy centered at the Vatican to hide all the evidence of alien intervention. We have to take it on basic faith any such evidence exists even though there's no documented evidence of the Church's undertaking any such activity. Drat, that's also part of the conspiracy - hiding the evidence of hiding the evidence. I'd like to know how this particular thrice bitten piece of haggagh got started and what "evidence" has been offered to support it.

[Kludge808]

I know life gets dull if you're by yourself mate. Ive reached that conclusion many times that you have to be single, just from observing the fact you usually log on first thing before work, then instantly after work, and every minute of the weekends.

Try socializing mate. Join a club, watch a cinema film, heck even online dating, anything than sit there alone day after day, living only for one thread, obsessive posting and reposting the same crap all the blinking time

*whimper* ... I'm single and alone and all like that. Does that make me a Zoser-clone?

[S2F]

No, no, guys! It was AIL-E-UNZ! They showed me once during the daily transmissions from the mothership. It was really cool.

*Snipped a bunch of relevant stuff*

Hey Kludge, I hope you are doing well, and it's good to see you here even though this thread degenerates into a one man circus on occasion. All your points are valid, just expect them to be hand waived away (without justification mind you) by a certain party.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Slave2Fate

[seeder]

. They were too busy with stuff like genetic injunearing, a side result of which was politicians and Paris Hilton.

injunearing, haha very witty!

A great post kludge. Pity - but anymore text than a paragraph means doser wont read it. He needs moving images, alien music and voice-over men with deep voices saying mysterious things!

But a breath of fresh air nonetheless on a very tired and frustrating fred thread ! Its sad but zoser isnt here for reasoned discussion and exchange of ideas. His strategy is not to listen - while incessantly wanting everyone else to listen to him. Then if the information presented to him, yet again gets too close to the possible truth...its the classic zoser swerve he does, and the subject gets changed back to something else we have rinsed every fact from! Admittedly we can only know so much, speculate even more, and thats where zoser feels the aliens come in, when we have to say....well, we dont know for sure how they did stuff.

But not knowing things didnt prevent the Parthenon from being built a thousand years before, now did it?

[scowl]

OK, Zoser, this is what granite looks like in the wild. This was one of many granite landslides that we had come across during a hike in Eastern Oregon.

It looks like your Ancient Astronauts had been there. See the edges of the stones indicated by the red arrows. Those were just a few of the thousands of nearly straight and nearly flat surfaces that occurred naturally in this granite.

Now how do you split granite with flimsy copper tools? "Why it's simply impossible," you say! Using the feather and wedge method, you would pound feathers into the crack indicated by the green arrow. As the feathers go into the crack, you can easily pound the wedge in between them and put the fracture under enough pressure to split even a huge stone like that one. People have been doing it for thousands of years.

[seeder]

*whimper* ... I'm single and alone and all like that. Does that make me a Zoser-clone?

hehe I think the difference that makes the difference, in this case, is the obsessing he does. While anyone with time on their hands and being single doesn't automatically make them odd, its whats done with the time and the interests one gets - interested in!

Heck when I was a teenager I would have loved the net, if it had been around, and doubtless would have watched every ufo or aliens vid going. Fortunately, the internet for me started in 98, a time I had fortunately matured by, and gained the capacity for objective reasoning

.

Edited March 12, 2013 by seeder

[scowl]

No, no, guys! It was AIL-E-UNZ!

Hey Kludge, if you're really bored you can check a hundred pages back in this thread and learn about the piezoelectric effect of granite which used the natural vibration of the Earth to create resonance within it to generate electricity which was conducted out of the pyramids not through highly conductive copper wire but through, uh, something else that left no evidence. Yes the pyramids were nothing more than giant power stations! Why else would they have used granite?

I have a nice chunk of leftover granite which my cat's food and water bowls sit on. I'd love to get the thing producing electricity but that darn Zoser can't tell me how to do it. In fact he warned me not to because it would generate radiation. Oh yes, he switches topics a lot and gets confused.

But you probably won't understand any of this because you're handicapped with your engineering degree which prevents you from seeing the amazing things that Zoser sees... on the Internet.

[sards]

New to this forum. Has anyone tried to replicate the Pyramids on a smaller scale and attempt to use them as a super conducter-transmitter-whatever.....

[seeder]

New to this forum. Has anyone tried to replicate the Pyramids on a smaller scale and attempt to use them as a super conducter-transmitter-whatever.....

for what purpose may I ask? You could use a wooden storage box for a, - as you say, "super conducter-transmitter-whatever"

Pyramid shaped means nothing to energy production does it? But the answer is NO.

But people have built smaller models of the 'mids to try figure out building methods. . But as they were not originally built as power plants then no, no-ones tried to get power out of one. But there are a couple of chaps who believe this to be the case and will explain it all in a 90 mins DVD, but only if you send them $29.99.

so lets make a deal, send me just $20, and I will tell you whatever you want to hear by personal email.

[Kludge808]

Hey Kludge, I hope you are doing well,

As well as can be expected. This getting old crap is definitely getting old. Things are beginning to ache I didn't even know I have.

and it's good to see you here even though this thread degenerates into a one man circus on occasion. All your points are valid, just expect them to be hand waived away (without justification mind you) by a certain party.

Yeah, I've been Zoserified (Zoserized?) before so I expect it to happen again. None the less, I had to put my foot in if for no other reason than my 1000 post goal. (Good grief! Is that evidence I don't have a life after all?)

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Yeah, I've been Zoserified (Zoserized?)

I hear that happens if he bites you.

[S2F]

so lets make a deal, send me just $20, and I will tell you whatever you want to hear by personal email.

I honestly wonder how much of the AA garbage is just fueled by confirmation bias. People just saying what they know others want to hear just to make a few (few? ) bucks off of the gullible.

Then again maybe I'd rather not want to know, my faith in humanity is on shaky ground enough without knowing the exact depths people will go to to feed a myth (and themselves in the process).

[S2F]

I hear that happens if he bites you.

Except judging by his argumentation he has no teeth!

[Kludge808]

injunearing, haha very witty!

*polite bow* Ah aimz ta pleeze.

A great post kludge. Pity - but anymore text than a paragraph means doser wont read it. He needs moving images, alien music and voice-over men with deep voices saying mysterious things!

I have the AV capability here to do that including voice alteration to a degree. It might be fun to practice with Premier doing that someday when I get really truly bored.

But a breath of fresh air nonetheless on a very tired and frustrating fred thread !

Thanks. I'm not an expert on much of anything except maybe multilayer toasted cheese sandwiches but I do my homework - or run the numbers as I said in another thread where doing actual calculations seemed to be beyond the antagonists' capability - to make sure of my footing first. Even so I tend to be somewhat conservative in how far I push things.

Its sad but zoser isnt here for reasoned discussion and exchange of ideas. His strategy is not to listen - while incessantly wanting everyone else to listen to him. Then if the information presented to him, yet again gets too close to the possible truth...its the classic zoser swerve he does, and the subject gets changed back to something else we have rinsed every fact from!

This isn't unusual for FTBs (Flaming True Believers) and CTists (Conspiracy Theorists) since reality has a habit of interfering with their closed minded thinking. (Ironically they accuse skeptics & debunkers of being closed minded while claiming to be open minded. It would be kind of a giggle if they weren't so dead serious about it.) They also like to slide on over to a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with the OP in a vain attempt to escape and find something the skeptics & debunkers will "oooh" and ahhh" over. This doesn't work but they claim points anyway.

Admittedly we can only know so much, speculate even more, and thats where zoser feels the aliens come in, when we have to say....well, we dont know for sure how they did stuff.

Well, yeah. To an FTB, anything lost to antiquity has to be made up for somehow and an external influence like aliens fills that bill nicely. They simply aren't capable of saying "I don't know" or accepting more prosaic possibilities.

But not knowing things didnt prevent the Parthenon from being built a thousand years before, now did it?

Or any of a great number of other architectural examples. The ancients weren't smarter than us, they just didn't bother writing down the techniques which have since been lost through time.