The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

[zoser]

erm, except I have, many times, I even posted piccies. dont ask when and where, the last post I made about vitrification was a page or 2 back

but heres the swerve again

It would seem this thread will just regurgitate previous posts over and over, thus never will it end or be concluded

No I've seen no evidence technical or otherwise to refute Vitrification and moulding.

I have just read protest. Nothing more.

That's why the thread has gone on for longer than it needed to.

People are protesting rather than face the evidence.

Remember I have two types of evidence now.

How it was done and how it was not done.

Edited January 13, 2013 by zoser

[Space Commander Travis]

There is no ignorance. Ignorance is making claims that cannot be justified, such as modern man has proved that they could do it using stone age methods.

That's ignorance and here is the irefutable proof.

I have provided a volume of evidence that states the principle of how precision work was done.

Compare this to the Coricancha wall above. It's an utter joke.

The ignorance and denial is yours not mine.

Worse that ignorance what you are doing is deception and fraud. Claiming that Protzen's work compares with ancient high precision when pictorial evidence says that it isn't.

This thing is done.

You say that "Ignorance is making claims that cannot be justified, such as modern man has proved that they could do it using stone age methods", so you conclude from that that aliens must have done it? Even if it was not possible to do it using stone age methods", does that prove that Aliens must have done it? Is it just that there was no other possible way that it could have been done? Where is the proof that it was actually Aliens?

Edited January 13, 2013 by Lord Vetinari

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

when you say moulding, do you mean pouring a liquid into a shape and having it harden, or do you mean shaping of preexisting rocks into shape so thry perfectl fit? I'v'e seen both thepries advanced in this thread, and for the life of me I csn' remember which on you endorse, I balme the stupidly hot wether here making my brains not work good.

[zoser]

You say that "Ignorance is making claims that cannot be justified, such as modern man has proved that they could do it using stone age methods", so you conclude from that that aliens must have done it? Even if it was not possible to do it using stone age methods", does that prove that Aliens must have done it? Is it just that there was no other possible way that it could have been done? Where is the proof that it was actually Aliens?

It's much more than that for anyone who has been following the pictorial evidence. I have supplied volumes of examples of moulding and vitrification.

Would you like to see them again?

[seeder]

It's much more than that for anyone who has been following the pictorial evidence. I have supplied volumes of examples of moulding and vitrification.

Would you like to see them again?

hows the missus and daughter?

[zoser]

when you say moulding, do you mean pouring a liquid into a shape and having it harden, or do you mean shaping of preexisting rocks into shape so thry perfectl fit? I'v'e seen both thepries advanced in this thread, and for the life of me I csn' remember which on you endorse, I balme the stupidly hot wether here making my brains not work good.

No. Heating causing a softening then the blocks can be manipulated.

Look at this:

I believe these blocks with the pock marks have been pushed back into place because they were initially placed slightly too far forward.. Lots of examples like this. Not all pock marks but other similar tell tale signs.

I have to go now.

Be back later.

[Space Commander Travis]

It's much more than that for anyone who has been following the pictorial evidence. I have supplied volumes of examples of moulding and vitrification.

Would you like to see them again?

We know you've supplied loads and loads of rocks, but does that prove that it must have been Aliens that did, it, though? or is it a case of "well, what else could have done it? It must have been"? There could not have been any other circumstances that might, for instance, have made the surface of rock Shiny?

[seeder]

PURE BS!! Yet another repost!! see images

click for bigger

quote:

"(Left top) Lightning – a type of plasma phenomenon –strikes over an ancient fort. Major lightning strikes can cause intense heat discharges resulting in the melting, fusing, and vitrification of sand and rock".

in zosers mind theres only ONE WAY...aliens! Coz youtube says so!

source? (Public Domain Image; University of Alaska, Fairbanks.)

dont it make you sick that he just goes round and round, like an animal in a cage? Like a blinkered donkey plowing the same field over and over ?

[seeder]

"The most remarkable monument in Tiahuanuco is the great monolithic gateway. Its position is indicated by the letter m in the plan. It now stands erect, and is described as being in that position by every traveler except D'Orbigny, who visited the ruins in 1833, and who says it had then fallen down.

I give two views of this unique monument, both from photographs, of some interest to me, as the first it was ever my fortune to be called on to take. It will be seen that it has been broken—the natives say by lightning"

—the natives say by lightning"

—the natives say by lightning"

—the natives say by lightning"

http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_6.htm

[bmk1245]

Indeed on the observation of the AA`s and the AAA`s ,and the" WGAS" It is afterall all in the one precieves these things. But It does help to have a rudimentary education and really helps if you have some actual experience in these fields of our world and its wonders.

To call it "PINK" is indeed an understatement ! Like In pink thing a frozen desert had at most State Fairs ! LOL !

All true!

[S2F]

There is no ignorance. Ignorance is making claims that cannot be justified, such as modern man has proved that they could do it using stone age methods.

That's ignorance and here is the irefutable proof.

I have provided a volume of evidence that states the principle of how precision work was done.

Compare this to the Coricancha wall above. It's an utter joke.

The ignorance and denial is yours not mine.

Worse than ignorance what the skeptics are doing is fraud. Claiming that Protzen's work compares with ancient high precision when pictorial evidence says that it isn't.

This thing is done.

I take it that you don't know what an argument from ignorance is then? I should have known, that actually clears things up a bit.

Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).^[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

http://en.wikipedia...._from_ignorance

The burden of proof is still very much in your court, it always has been.

Edit to add: This in effect renders the entire premise of your argument faulty from the very beginning. If you could offer anything substantial to support an alien intervention scenario that would all change. But you can't. We know it, and more importantly, you know it.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Slave2Fate

[bmk1245]

This is a bodge:

[...]

I guess you do not know what experience means. Try paint the following in less than one minute

(

)

You will waste "mountain" of spray cans before you achieve this.

In support of your theory check out these moulding marks:

[...]

For umpteenh time - its weathering. Example:

(

with another moronic claim, comparable to yours) Edited January 13, 2013 by bmk1245

[seeder]

I have grown excruciatingly bored of this subject. It just loops round and round ...forever?

Not forever for me...So Im not wasting further time, there are other more interesting threads and discussions.

So my FINAL summing up then. This is a long post!

ALL ancient remnants, of any ancient civilization are fascinating to a degree, and should be discussed for what they are, ie: ancient MANS achievements, and really shouldn't be on an ET forum.

Ancient Aliens, the series, has done much harm to ufology, and ancient history in general. It has warped the minds or 1000's of vulnerable watchers, who you will often see join a forum like this and post 'their findings' and most of whatever is posted, has been endlessly debated for many many years previously, as can be seen on numerous similar forums.

Because of the subjects being discussed often, and quite heatedly at times, you'd have thought with all the inputs, and all the 'evidence' being analyzed, that SOMEONE, somewhere, would have cracked whatever puzzle they think they are working on and say definitively, that YES it was Aliens.

But no discussion anywhere, has ever proven this. This discussion for sure, will never prove it either. Its impossible to prove Aliens did anything, as there simply is NO evidence of Aliens. So to base ANY serious discussion, on a semi fictional series, is pure folly and wasted venture.

So that aside, zosers stumbling stone is always going to be 'vitrification and melting' of stone.

It was one of the last posts he made today before he hopefully, went out and got some fresh air and left the PC alone and experienced the great outdoors, something I myself am doing shortly on this crisp and frosty day.

So my final words on this subject, are on vitrification and molding.

According to zoser and his repetitive postings of pictures of semi-intricate stonework..he states that the tight fit and bulges etc MUST be because of molding...

But NO TWO STONES in any wall or 'whatever' he has shown, have been identical or roughly identical. But if you use a mold, everything that comes out of it will be the same, logically.

heres a short vid, you only need to watch the first 30 seconds

And then in the following image....

click for bigger

In at least 15 of the rocks shown as evidence in the above pic, You can quite clearly see the mold idea has to be thrown out immediately. Why make bizarre shaped molds for every individual stone, when we 'know' they were quite capable of making a square?

Molds were never used. Because stone cannot be molded, clay can of course, but we know the stones are not clay

Plus there are remnants of quarries, you know, places where stones are CUT OUT OF BEDROCK! Why cut from bedrock if they can be molded?

Then we have firm evidence of rocks that are called TIRED STONES, ie, they were left in place before being dragged and erected into any structure, so again, clear evidence for cutting stones, zero evidence for molding.

But even if it was remotely possible, to soften or form rock from heat, zoser points to the joins that show bulging, and in his mind, this is evidence they were set in place while incredibly hot - then bulged out forming tight joins..That will be like trying to fill a square bag with water, and hoping it keeps its shape. Wont it? Which cannot happen.

Tell you what then, put a fist sized rock in your campfire, give it say, about ten mins, then handle it, see how long you 'can' handle it of course. Now this rock wont be anywhere near any alleged melting point, but you wont be able to hold it more than a few seconds.

But zoser will insist they were handled and placed.... while being semi-soft thru incredible heat! (OK, so they also invented asbestos gloves too did they?)

Plus, stone working tools and copper remnants of tools have been found, but no mold evidence has ever been found.

And thats because you cant mold stone.

zoser will have everyone believe that everything these Peruvians did, was intricate and perfect, which simply is not the case as seen in his own pics below

click for bigger

so erm, why dont these fit perfect? Wheres evidence of molding?

Its just such a mind numbingly ridiculous story/theory, but then again, the entire idea only came from the AA series.

(No I didn't watch it, but the many debunker vids I watched show clips where molds were mentioned. These are the same clips of course that say a huge mother ship parked in space, sent down a shuttle with some aliens on it, who then, for whatever strange reason, decided they had to make a base camp out of rocks. Forgetting of course they had the shuttle they landed in)

Vitrification. Again mentioned in the AA series as 'a puzzle', which zoser believes MUST BE a puzzle coz 'they' said so.

zoser cannot differentiate between shiny rocks and vitrification. As has been demonstrated in previous posts by others. IF there is any evidence of vitrification, again its not caused by aliens or a by product of heating huge stones to such a high temp that they vitrified.

Its not possible in the way zoser will believe, more to the point, Arthur C Clarke, you know, someone EXTREMELY credible, could not reproduce vitrification by the methods he tried, tho he did produce a tiny bit thru building a massive fire.

At PP, there is -actually- very little evidence of vitrification, very little. especially compared to the whole site, (and its a big site), And its not on every rock either, and not even on all rocks in the same structure, either. So if the ancient aliens vitrified their work, why isn't it everywhere? Why is it patchy?

So again according to zoser, highly polished or what he assumes vitrified stones can only be achieved by extremely high heat such as ...lazers.

But if they had lazers, why not lazer-cut the rocks to perfection in the first place?

You see even today, with mankind's tech, we lazer cut as standard practice, a whole range of items. So..the aliens had lazers, but watched man struggle to melt/mold and cut rocks? Sadistic bloody aliens werent they?

But we know Bolivia/Peru, and many other parts of the world went thru the ice age, and today, there is still a huge glacier in Peru, and glaciers, over time will polish rocks to a mirror finish, I did post a pic of this a few pages back, if you cant find it google "glacial polishing".

So why go to any bother to polish rocks so much they appear to be glassed, when - wherever glaciers have been, ready made shiny rocks are in abundance? Why not just use them instead?

Watch the folowing short vid, and heres the quote from the vids source: "this video shows the after effect of a downed powerline in a storm. the arc was so hot it melted the ground into glass. this is called vitrification"

(its not the best vid/filmwork and I find the music annoying but it will show towards the end, vitrification by lightening)

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6T0LhNHLaw

Now in my previous post one page back (#4783) I posted a picture of lightening striking a fort, and strangely enough this theory is given credit for..vitrified forts, of which there are more that have evidence of vitrification, than the whole of PP put togther. But no-one credits aliens with all these forts. hmmm!

I also posted a link above, which said something like - when an explorer asked the natives what happened to the broken monolithic gate...well the natives said..."it was hit by lightening"

(So it would show vitrification then)

The natives said that!! And as the power line vid above demonstrated, even earth bound electricity will vitrify what it touches. But think of heavy lightening!!

So we have direct evidence of stones being cut, and not molded, we have direct evidence of lightening striking PP, which again, is KNOWN to cause vitrification.

But what we dont have is a single shred of evidence for aliens. Because aliens didnt do it.

Plus we have evidence the site was unfinished and abandoned, destroyed by serious climate changes, (some say earthquake, some say droughts, some say floods...but any severe weather can and will include lightening too. Plus it was mostly buried under a meter or so of dirt, which tends to support the flood theories

So, Aliens cant even choose a good site to build on eh? Then had to abandon it before it was finished and eventually ruined!

THINK OF THE PARTHENON! Built 1000 years before, and still standing, and guess what, MAN did that, which if you do a side by side comparison, shows without doubt, MAN is smarter than the alleged aliens who came a 1000 years later.

Now as I anticipate this thread to go on endlessly, which means it can only go round and round and round in circles...I will leave you all to it!

Have fun! I bet if I checked back in a month it will have reverted to shiny holes in stone, elongated skulls, and molded stones yet again.

I wont be part of the loony discussion, anymore!

Edited January 13, 2013 by seeder

[zoser]

In at least 15 of the rocks shown as evidence in the above pic, You can quite clearly see the mold idea has to be thrown out immediately. Why make bizarre shaped molds for every individual stone, when we 'know' they were quite capable of making a square?

Molds were never used. Because stone cannot be molded, clay can of course, but we know the stones are not clay

There are many ways to look at moulding. I think you are referring to pouring some semi fluid material into a wooden mould or something similar.

That could be how they did it for the cuboid work such as the Coricancha wall where is at least some degree of uniformity.

That would explain the strange looking 'smudge' marks on some of the stones, say where the stone got too close to the mould:

Like here:

and here:

How else are these 'smudge' marks explained?

Then Sacsayhuaman as seeder quite rightly points out could not have been done this way since they are uncannily irregular.

Yet I contend that the pock marks are the same kind of effect. Something making contact with the blocks (only a few not all), while in a semi-solid state. Say because the blocks were initially too far forward and then pushed back with some implement.

So when the word moulding is used, there are different signs of evidence of this. It is not saying that all blocks in Peru were formed in a wooden mould. I thing they were trimmed, pushed, shaped by their own weight to form precision fits. In some cases smoothed in the same way as a plasterer smooths a radius with a round tool:

How else is the above picture to be explained?

There are many many more like this. None of which is seen in later Greek, Roman or Renaissance work to my knowledge.

Just to clarify something seeder.

My energy for this comes not for a wish for a fight to the death. That's not it. It comes from the knowing that for the first time we have a credible explanation for how these mysterious sites were constructed. I just see no other way to look at this.

Unfortunately for some, it does imply extra-ordinary methods with obvious ramifications.

[Crikey]

Is it in Peru?

My theory- the wall was first built by piling ill-fittng rocks on top of each other, then playing a "sonic vibration" tool over them to turn them to jelly so they'd nestle snugly against each other under gravity, then when the device was switched off, they solidified again.

PS- a possible link with the walls of Jericho springs to mind, they turned to jelly too under sonic pressure

Nice idea. Good to see some creative thinking here. Welcome to the thread.

One thing to add to your theory.

The stone is mostly vitrified; indicating it was subjected to intense heat.

Have a quick scan at this.

http://www.ancient-m...ges_of_peru.pdf

Yes scientists can't explain it. The words "great heat" keep cropping up in their reports, but I speculate that it might not have been caused by heat, but by a device whose effect only resembled heat, for example by jiggling the atoms and molecules of the rocks so that they became soft and malleable and 'melted' into shape.

I'd also speculate that the ancient peoples didn't possess such devices themselves, but were visited by aliens who had them, to lend humans a helping hand.

The word 'angel' has its roots in the ancient Greek 'angello', meaning "bear a message, bring news", and as we know, angels have visited earth plenty of times to give humans a helping hand.

[Abramelin]

Scientists can't explain it?

You should read back some 50 pages.

[Abramelin]

Maybe some people should start Googling photos:

"Ollantaytambo" AND "quarry"

"Machu Picchu" AND "quarry"

Then you will see how the stones looked when they had been cut loose from the rock.

[zoser]

Yes scientists can't explain it. The words "great heat" keep cropping up in their reports, but I speculate that it might not have been caused by heat, but by a device whose effect only resembled heat, for example by jiggling the atoms and molecules of the rocks so that they became soft and malleable and 'melted' into shape.

I'd also speculate that the ancient peoples didn't possess such devices themselves, but were visited by aliens who had them, to lend humans a helping hand.

The word 'angel' has its roots in the ancient Greek 'angello', meaning "bear a message, bring news", and as we know, angels have visited earth plenty of times to give humans a helping hand.

Interesting thought. If the blocks were hot enough to make them soft that would make them difficult to handle. Can you say any more about the kind of device you have in mind?

How would such a technology account for the vitrification?

Edited January 13, 2013 by zoser

[zoser]

Maybe some people should start Googling photos:

"Ollantaytambo" AND "quarry"

"Machu Picchu" AND "quarry"

Then you will see how the stones looked when they had been cut loose from the rock.

Not sure about the point Abe; can you say more please?

[Abramelin]

Did you do it?

Then you will see how the blocks looked just before they were moved, like is done in the video I showed a screenshot of. where a whole village (near Ollantaytambo) is pulling and pushing just such a rock. And with relative EASE..

They didn't use some 'levitation device': it's obvious they cut huge slabs from the bedrock, and let them fall down from the slope..

[zoser]

Did you do it?

Then you will see how the blocks looked just before they were moved, like is done in the video I showed a screenshot of. where a whole village (near Ollantaytambo) is pulling and pushing just such a rock. And with relative EASE..

They didn't use some 'levitation device': it's obvious they cut huge slabs from the bedrock, and let them fall down from the slope..

Wouldn't they crack if they just fell down?

At Ollyantaytambo, the blocks were cut from one side of the valley, brought down the mountainside and then up the other side.

That's a herculean task by anyone's imagination.

[Abramelin]

Wouldn't they crack if they just fell down?

At Ollantaytambo, the blocks were cut from one side of the valley, brought down the mountainside and then up the other side.

That's a herculean task by anyone's imagination.

When they crack, you'll have several pieces that fit like a jigsaw puzzle.

Herculean task..heh. Did you read what I posted about the Romans? They dragged several granite pillars each weighing 60 tons for a 100 km, and then they sailed from Egypt to Rome, and again, dragged those pillars for another 700 meters. THAT is a Herculean task.

And did you watch that video I posted? A whole village pulling a block of stone the ancients had left?

I have watched dozens of videos you posted, now I want your opinion about the ones I posted.

.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Yes scientists can't explain it. The words "great heat" keep cropping up in their reports, but I speculate that it might not have been caused by heat, but by a device whose effect only resembled heat, for example by jiggling the atoms and molecules of the rocks so that they became soft and malleable and 'melted' into shape.

I'd also speculate that the ancient peoples didn't possess such devices themselves, but were visited by aliens who had them, to lend humans a helping hand.

The word 'angel' has its roots in the ancient Greek 'angello', meaning "bear a message, bring news", and as we know, angels have visited earth plenty of times to give humans a helping hand.

There is a 'device' that gives an effect of heat, and that is chemistry.

Andesite contains 6% of CaO (calcium oxide), and granite 2%.

Using a concentrated brewage containing oxalic acid, you can give these stones a shine.

Lichens do it, all over the world.

The expressions "creative thinking", and "having an open mind" come up quite frequently in threads like these, and those who use it rarely show any creative thinking themselves.

They can't explain what they see, and so aliens did it.

Has any of you been in a meeting where you were asked to come up with a solution for a problem, and the manager or whoever saying, "I need an answer, be as creative as you can be."

I am quite sure none of you said, "We need the help of aliens".

In case you did, you were asked to get coffee for everyone, lol.

.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Abramelin

[Crikey]

Interesting thought. If the blocks were hot enough to make them soft that would make them difficult to handle. Can you say any more about the kind of device you have in mind?

How would such a technology account for the vitrification?

Ah, if only we knew the secrets of alien technology..

Maybe magnetic fields have something to do with keeping rocks jelly-like until switched off.

This extract from the net indicates our scientists already use a magnetism device with water molecules, so maybe our alien friends use something like it on rocks -

"One method of vitrification uses magnetic field to keep water fluent while supercooling it. When the magnetic field is turned off, the water will instantly freeze and ice crystals will not have time to form"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrification

[Abramelin]

Ah, if only we knew the secrets of alien technology..

Maybe magnetic fields have something to do with keeping rocks jelly-like until switched off.

This extract from the net indicates our scientists already use a magnetism device with water molecules, so maybe our alien friends use something like it on rocks -

"One method of vitrification uses magnetic field to keep water fluent while supercooling it. When the magnetic field is turned off, the water will instantly freeze and ice crystals will not have time to form"

http://en.wikipedia....i/Vitrification

From your link (it's the very first sentence) :

Vitrification (from Latin vitreum, "glass" via French vitrifier) is the transformation of a substance into a glass. Usually, it is achieved by rapidly cooling a liquid through the glass transition. Certain chemical reactions also result in glasses.