Egyptian Dictator

[Drayno]

http://rt.com/news/morsi-declaration-constituent-assembly-356/

"The Egyptian president has issued a constitutional declaration protecting Egypt's constitution-drafting assembly from dissolution, and replacing the prosecutor general. It also rules that none of the executive's decisions can be overturned.

Morsi gave the Constituent Assembly a two month deadline to finish drafting a new constitution, ruling that no authority may dissolve it until the country's defining document is completed.

He further ruled that no authority may dissolve the Shura Council, the upper house of Egypt's parliament.

In a move likely to bring criticism that the Egyptian president is inappropriately expanding his powers, he also decreed that no laws or declarations passed by the president from the time of his inauguration until a new parliament is elected can be overturned by any authority, including the judiciary."

Until the new Constitution comes up, he's an authoritarian figure.

It's interesting this happens directly after Hilary Clinton visits Egypt.

[Raptor Witness]

Danger Egypt: Great Danger ...

06 February 2011 - Post 45

"If you do not protect your minorities, then you will be bound again by an even worse tyrant."

[pallidin]

Yeah, that could end up being a huge problem.

[+and-then]

It seems to be the only way the country accepts being governed. I know that sounds cynical but look at history. I actually feel badly for the young people who had to learn the hard way that real, positive change takes a lot more work than just marching in the streets for a few weeks. Now they'd have to start over and I suspect that Morsi would NOT be so restrained as Mubarak was. But there also is the catalyst now that some change has been effected and who knows? It just might keep changing for awhile - maybe into something better in time.

[meryt-tetisheri]

It seems to be the only way the country accepts being governed. I know that sounds cynical but look at history. I actually feel badly for the young people who had to learn the hard way that real, positive change takes a lot more work than just marching in the streets for a few weeks. Now they'd have to start over and I suspect that Morsi would NOT be so restrained as Mubarak was. But there also is the catalyst now that some change has been effected and who knows? It just might keep changing for awhile - maybe into something better in time.

Are you seriously suggesting that theocratic tyranny is the only way to govern Egypt? In your opinion, is it better to enforce on a country a divisive constitution, chartered by the unqualified and rejected by all except minority MB and Salfais; a constitution which strips women, religious and ethnic minorities of their civil rights and relegates them to a second class citizen status? Do you believe that instead of protesting dishonest and inefficient governance, it is better to cower in a corner and watch victims dropping, while parts of the country are given away to non-Egyptians? The powers usurped by Mursi far surpass those of any other ruler; he himself gets his marching orders from an unelected murshid who presides over an international secretive organization whose objective is the creation of a Caliphate with Jerusalem as its capital, Egypt becoming a ‘province’. Are you still wondering why Egyptians are ‘marching in the streets’ instead of quietly accepting their lot? Poverty has doubled, the economy is in tatters, the infrastructure is collapsing, the inefficiency of the government is unprecedented (officials are chosen on the basis of their loyalty & membership in the MB instead of their qualifications). In the meanwhile the president of Gaza shows more concern for Hamas than for Egypt. The people are angry, and rightfully so.

Egyptians are aware of the role played by the American administration in backing up the MB, another example of its short term, half-baked foreign policy strategy. The creation of a Wahhabi state in Egypt will not calm the ME; it will only add a more explosive ticking time bomb into the mix.

[+and-then]

Are you seriously suggesting that theocratic tyranny is the only way to govern Egypt? In your opinion, is it better to enforce on a country a divisive constitution, chartered by the unqualified and rejected by all except minority MB and Salfais; a constitution which strips women, religious and ethnic minorities of their civil rights and relegates them to a second class citizen status? Do you believe that instead of protesting dishonest and inefficient governance, it is better to cower in a corner and watch victims dropping, while parts of the country are given away to non-Egyptians? The powers usurped by Mursi far surpass those of any other ruler; he himself gets his marching orders from an unelected murshid who presides over an international secretive organization whose objective is the creation of a Caliphate with Jerusalem as its capital, Egypt becoming a ‘province’. Are you still wondering why Egyptians are ‘marching in the streets’ instead of quietly accepting their lot? Poverty has doubled, the economy is in tatters, the infrastructure is collapsing, the inefficiency of the government is unprecedented (officials are chosen on the basis of their loyalty & membership in the MB instead of their qualifications). In the meanwhile the president of Gaza shows more concern for Hamas than for Egypt. The people are angry, and rightfully so.

Egyptians are aware of the role played by the American administration in backing up the MB, another example of its short term, half-baked foreign policy strategy. The creation of a Wahhabi state in Egypt will not calm the ME; it will only add a more explosive ticking time bomb into the mix.

Meryt I am not at all saying that Egyptians should docilely accept this outrage. If it sounded that way I apologize. I was merely pointing out that the population heretofore HAS accepted one man rulership by a strongman. I also was saying that those who began the protests were betrayed by the organized political structure of the MB. Egypt is on the knife's edge now and which way things fall will depend entirely on the courage of her people. I actually pray for them that they can escape the brutality that the MB will eventually bring upon them, IMO.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Meryt I am not at all saying that Egyptians should docilely accept this outrage. If it sounded that way I apologize. I was merely pointing out that the population heretofore HAS accepted one man rulership by a strongman. I also was saying that those who began the protests were betrayed by the organized political structure of the MB. Egypt is on the knife's edge now and which way things fall will depend entirely on the courage of her people. I actually pray for them that they can escape the brutality that the MB will eventually bring upon them, IMO.

I'm sorry for my terse response AT, I misunderstood you. January 25 was all about putting an end to the rule by a strongman, what followed is much worse! The betrayal did not only come from the MB alone, but also from Tantawy, Anan who from the very beginning chose an MB member to formulate the first referendum and turned a blind eye to election irregularities; and also from the American administration which backed and aided the MB. Every encroachment by the MB is preceded by a visit of Hillary Clinton; will you please keep her in Washington?

[+and-then]

I'm sorry for my terse response AT, I misunderstood you. January 25 was all about putting an end to the rule by a strongman, what followed is much worse! The betrayal did not only come from the MB alone, but also from Tantawy, Anan who from the very beginning chose an MB member to formulate the first referendum and turned a blind eye to election irregularities; and also from the American administration which backed and aided the MB. Every encroachment by the MB is preceded by a visit of Hillary Clinton; will you please keep her in Washington?

Do I have a choice? You might recall I once asked you how likely you felt the possibility of a new Caliphate was? Has your opinion changed to any degree? Your rationale still seems sound to me but the picture is a bit murkier now. The MB just seems a great potential evil to me but maybe I over react.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Do I have a choice? You might recall I once asked you how likely you felt the possibility of a new Caliphate was? Has your opinion changed to any degree? Your rationale still seems sound to me but the picture is a bit murkier now. The MB just seems a great potential evil to me but maybe I over react.

I still think the chances of a Caliphate are still not good, for one if the MB are incapable of governing one country, Egypt, governing a 'united arab state' is way beyond their capabilities. Their dictatorship, hypocrisy, and inefficiency have become obvious to the majority of Egyptians, and I am sure other Muslim populations are taking note, the masks have fallen and they have been exposed. Third, if Arabs have ever agreed to one thing, it is never to agree. The MB's dream of governing a Caliphate can best be described by an Arab proverb: "a mule's dream of flying like a bird"!

As for Clinton and American foreign policy, playing the role of a king-maker and adopting what is assumed to be a pragmatic strategy necessitates a prior thorough knowledge of the 'king' they are installing. Inflicting a disaster like the MB on 90 million people then proclaiming that they are 'perplexed' and 'shocked' by what follows like in the link below, leads one to conclude they are either gullible or extremely devious. In either case the US has lost a lot in the ME even among those who had a friendlier stance towards their policies. When Clinton's motorcade was bombarded with tomatoes she should have listened and paid more attention. She didn't. At the end this administration has helped abort Egypt's dream of a democratic just future and instead abetted a dictator worse than Mubarak.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/84021_Page3.html#ixzz2Cf2aRXfzwhich

[+and-then]

I still think the chances of a Caliphate are still not good, for one if the MB are incapable of governing one country, Egypt, governing a 'united arab state' is way beyond their capabilities. Their dictatorship, hypocrisy, and inefficiency have become obvious to the majority of Egyptians, and I am sure other Muslim populations are taking note, the masks have fallen and they have been exposed. Third, if Arabs have ever agreed to one thing, it is never to agree. The MB's dream of governing a Caliphate can best be described by an Arab proverb: "a mule's dream of flying like a bird"!

As for Clinton and American foreign policy, playing the role of a king-maker and adopting what is assumed to be a pragmatic strategy necessitates a prior thorough knowledge of the 'king' they are installing. Inflicting a disaster like the MB on 90 million people then proclaiming that they are 'perplexed' and 'shocked' by what follows like in the link below, leads one to conclude they are either gullible or extremely devious. In either case the US has lost a lot in the ME even among those who had a friendlier stance towards their policies. When Clinton's motorcade was bombarded with tomatoes she should have listened and paid more attention. She didn't. At the end this administration has helped abort Egypt's dream of a democratic just future and instead abetted a dictator worse than Mubarak.

http://www.politico....z2Cf2aRXfzwhich

This statement is spot on. I'm not sure which they are but I lean toward devious. It's frightening to think that they would be so gullible with their foreign policy. I just pray that they aren't setting the stage for a mule to fly.

[meryt-tetisheri]

This statement is spot on. I'm not sure which they are but I lean toward devious. It's frightening to think that they would be so gullible with their foreign policy. I just pray that they aren't setting the stage for a mule to fly.

That mule can only dream, while his 'feathers' (hoofs) are being clipped on the streets of Cairo, Alexandria, Qzna...etc.

'Gullible' frightens you; 'devious' terrifies me! It brings to mind the (yet unconfirmed) news of Obama sending American troops to Sinai, and worse still the pic. below. I sincerely hope this is just fear mongering or else peace in the ME will be as real as a desert mirage at noon!

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Morsi must have struck a deal with the Military and for the US to turn a blind eye but still keep donating wads of cash.Could it be, he may become another Mubarak, who constantly

refereed between Hamas and Isreal.

The political dynamics of the ME always changing but still steeped in Tribal traditions,don't think i will see peace there in my life time.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Morsi must have struck a deal with the Military and for the US to turn a blind eye but still keep donating wads of cash.Could it be, he may become another Mubarak, who constantly

refereed between Hamas and Isreal.

The political dynamics of the ME always changing but still steeped in Tribal traditions,don't think i will see peace there in my life time.

Check out Drayno's thread :

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=238185&pid=4552904&st=15entry4552904

I used to be a firm believer in the possibility of peace, but as long as 'perceptive' politicians are sawing the seeds of new conflicts....

seems I was too much of an idealist, naive!

[Raptor Witness]

It's interesting this happens directly after Hilary Clinton visits Egypt.

It's possible that promises were made, but it could also be the success at achieving a cease fire in Gaza.

I'm betting on the people of Egypt to bleed until they nullify this new Pharaoh’s declarations. They really want to be free, and they deserve it.

They don't need the United States feeding their army, because they don't need an army to be free.

Egypt's economy will skyrocket, if they will simply liberalize their treatment of minorities. It all hinges on that, not U.S. support.

To any investor who knows my forecasts, bet now on Egypt to rise. They will have special protection.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Raptor Witness

[Black Red Devil]

I still think the chances of a Caliphate are still not good, for one if the MB are incapable of governing one country, Egypt, governing a 'united arab state' is way beyond their capabilities. Their dictatorship, hypocrisy, and inefficiency have become obvious to the majority of Egyptians, and I am sure other Muslim populations are taking note, the masks have fallen and they have been exposed. Third, if Arabs have ever agreed to one thing, it is never to agree. The MB's dream of governing a Caliphate can best be described by an Arab proverb: "a mule's dream of flying like a bird"!

As for Clinton and American foreign policy, playing the role of a king-maker and adopting what is assumed to be a pragmatic strategy necessitates a prior thorough knowledge of the 'king' they are installing. Inflicting a disaster like the MB on 90 million people then proclaiming that they are 'perplexed' and 'shocked' by what follows like in the link below, leads one to conclude they are either gullible or extremely devious. In either case the US has lost a lot in the ME even among those who had a friendlier stance towards their policies. When Clinton's motorcade was bombarded with tomatoes she should have listened and paid more attention. She didn't. At the end this administration has helped abort Egypt's dream of a democratic just future and instead abetted a dictator worse than Mubarak.

http://www.politico....z2Cf2aRXfzwhich

I recall reading at the time that the majority of Egyptians, who were fighting to liberate the country from a dictator (Mubarak), were also fully aware and adamant they did not want to end up being ruled by Islamic fundamentalists. They were also fully aware that Mubarak was pilfering from US aid which was meant for the countries welfare. Sounds like the same stage act with different actors.

Where have those Egyptians gone?

[+and-then]

I recall reading at the time that the majority of Egyptians, who were fighting to liberate the country from a dictator (Mubarak), were also fully aware and adamant they did not want to end up being ruled by Islamic fundamentalists. They were also fully aware that Mubarak was pilfering from US aid which was meant for the countries welfare. Sounds like the same stage act with different actors.

Where have those Egyptians gone?

Not to answer for her but I think those young people and middle class types are the one's burning MB offices in several cities. It remains to be seen if new widespread protests will occur. I really feel badly for them.

[meryt-tetisheri]

It is difficult to respond briefly to your question, but I will try!

When the army first took over, a national debate started whether to have a new constitution first, or presidential elections. By that time a delegation from the MB had already visited Washington, where they seemingly succeeded in saying there all the things that were needed to be heard. Tantawy subsequently chose an MB legislator to formulate a referendum which was slanted in favor of Islamists. An intensive smear campaign started which demonized liberals and secularists as agents for Western powers, claimed that Baradei was responsible for the wrecking of Iraq, and that they will so endanger Islam and the society’s moral fabric, that voting for the constitution will be tantamount to voting against Islam. At the same time the MB vowed a government of national unity, that they will not run for more than 30% of parliamentary seats, and will not nominate a presidential candidate. The army in the meanwhile also participated in the smear campaign, accusing revolutionaries of having ‘foreign agendas’ and of thuggery. Thousands were arrested and stood trial in front of military courts. That revolutionaries lacked leadership and failed to organize or unite did not help at all.

This is the background which led to the Islamists success in the parliamentary elections. Their dismal performance, failure to address any of the economic problems, preoccupation with settling old scores with rivals, and the free reign they gave to extremists diminished their popularity. During the presidential elections, approximately, only +/- 13 million out of 25 million who voted elected Mursi. Many did so because they disliked Shafik, or mistrusted his close ties with Mubarak; not because they necessarily wanted Mursi, yet still close to 12 million voted for Shafik. The elections were riddled with irregularities, from pre-marked tickets, to bribery and buying votes, and even preventing some Christian villages from voting.

Once in office, the charm campaign was replaced by exclusionary policies, inefficiency, control of the media (closure of TV stations & newspapers), nepotism (e.g. the minister of justice and vice-president are brothers, the newly appointed general prosecutor is their brother in law); economic crisis and poverty mushroomed, as did the rate of crime. The silence of the state towards the actions of Islamist extremists shocked and frightened not only Copts, but moderate Muslims as well. One of Mursi’s first presidential acts was to release 2000 convicted jihadists, yet when 16 army soldiers were killed by them in Sinai he failed in taking appropriate effective measures or even attending the soldiers' funeral. His unconditional backing of Hamas and doing so at the expense of Egypt earned him the title ‘the president of Gaza’; the influence and apparent control of the Murshid and MB on his policies earned him another title ‘estebn’ (spare tyre).

In all respects, Mursi proved himself to be a worst version of Mubarak, whether by the recent decree, or by showing phenomenal insensitivity towards the suffering of his people or their welfare. The Egyptian stock exchange lost 30 billion yesterday due to his decree. Food and fuel prices soared as did unemployment. Recently, 60 children, aged between 7- 11 years, died in an avoidable train accident in Assiut. Help failed to arrive for 12 long hours. Families went to the tracks to collect the remains of their children. The unequipped hospitals called on pharmacists nation-wide begging for Intravenous sodium bicarbonate , families were asked to go search for needed blood themselves. Mursi and the prime-minister failed to react for almost 2 days. Instead Qandil flew to Gaza to cry for the death of one child, doctors & 30 tons of medicine were sent to Gaza, and the Egyptian minister of health declared that he has sent blood supplies to Gaza “enough for one year and a half”. Mursi tweeted his condolences to the “ families of the victims of the tragic train accident, the victims, and their children”…then came the decree!

Egyptians of all classes are on the streets. The country now is totally polarized between the ‘people”, and MB & followers. For the first time in my life I hear the words ‘possibility of civil war’ said in Egypt.

Edited November 26, 2012 by meryt-tetisheri

[+and-then]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57554371/morsi-stands-by-decrees-prolonging-showdown/

So the stage is set for new violence and I wonder if Morsi will be as reticent to use the army as Mubarak was? I also keenly wonder if the army is a friend of the people as they are perceived to be? I pray for wisdom and courage for the Egyptians in the coming days and months that they can avoid what is happening in Syria and at the same time avoid a new dictator.

[meryt-tetisheri]

About two days ago Dr. Nageh Ibrahim, a founder member of Jamaa Islamiya (reformed: now denouncing the use of violence), predicted a campaign of assassination targeting liberals, intellectuals, and politicians next month. At the same time MB and Salafi leaders announced their plans for a ‘million-man-march’ counter-demonstration in support of the presidential decree. This counter-demonstration was planned to take place today, at the same time opponents of the decree are demonstrating. Those leaders bragged that their numbers will engulf the president’s opponents; the Salafi Abou Ismail stated ‘since when does blood scare us’, so the stage does seem to be set for new bloodshed. However, it was announced today that this counter-demonstration has been cancelled to ‘avoid bloodshed’. It is believed that the Islamists are actually facing a conundrum: the level of popular anger against them is so high that they cannot count on any supporters other than their own members. Their numbers are too small to send bus-loads of supporters from the provinces as is their practice, yet still have enough members staying in the provinces to protect their offices. The illusion of their wide support and large membership is being exposed. International warnings and criticism from the UN, EU, and others, have also helped.

Today’s demonstrations against the decree will be joined by the syndicates of judges, lawyers, media and press, student unions, as well as independent labor unions. Mursi has managed to unite all factions! I am more worried about Islamist snipers and a repeat of the “battle of the camel” than the army. It remains to be seen whether they will repeat their previous performance. The organizers of today’s demonstration are planning to form human shields between security forces and demonstrators; they are stressing that the demonstration will be ‘peaceful’ just like the January ’11 revolution.

I would like to add that Mursi’s contention that the decree is temporary; the only means to protect democracy is totally false. What it actually does is put Egyptians in a catch-22 choice: either vote yes in the coming referendum and accept the constitution draft which is being rushed, or accept that through the unlimited totalitarian powers of Mursi, which he would use unhindered, the same constitution and laws would be enforced by decree.

When the election law was first drafted the MB was warned by many, including the same legislator who drafted the first referendum I referred to in my previous post and General Lachine of SCAF that it was unconstitutional, yet, in their rush to grab power and ascertain that the new constitution would be drafted by them and according to their ideology, they insisted on holding the elections then. The Supreme Constitutional Court had no option but to annul the parliament. That the judges were appointed by Mubarak is also a lame excuse, Mubarak ruled for thirty years, who else would have endorsed their appointment? Imagine if the US Supreme Court is disbanded every time a new president is elected! The presidential elections were supervised by the judiciary; Mursi took the presidential oath vowing to uphold the law; if the judiciary are corrupt as he claims, then doubt is cast on legitimacy of the elections which brought him to power. Some view his decree as a breach of the oath he took; as a result calls to impeach him are starting to rise.

The article below well explains the situation in Egypt now.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/egypt-at-a-crossroads-after-morsi-grants-himself-sweeping-powers-a-869291.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-speaks-with-elbaradei-on-the-situation-in-egypt-a-869309.html

Edited November 27, 2012 by meryt-tetisheri

[docyabut2]

I really feel sorry for the people of Egypt,the young want a democracy free of dictatorships and religous dominations.My hope is they find that true freedom.

[Black Red Devil]

It is believed that the Islamists are actually facing a conundrum: the level of popular anger against them is so high that they cannot count on any supporters other than their own members. Their numbers are too small to send bus-loads of supporters from the provinces as is their practice, yet still have enough members staying in the provinces to protect their offices. The illusion of their wide support and large membership is being exposed. International warnings and criticism from the UN, EU, and others, have also helped.

Today’s demonstrations against the decree will be joined by the syndicates of judges, lawyers, media and press, student unions, as well as independent labor unions. Mursi has managed to unite all factions! I am more worried about Islamist snipers and a repeat of the “battle of the camel” than the army. It remains to be seen whether they will repeat their previous performance. The organizers of today’s demonstration are planning to form human shields between security forces and demonstrators; they are stressing that the demonstration will be ‘peaceful’ just like the January ’11 revolution.

This is why I was surprised the other day and asked the question. This is the typical outcome I was expecting when I heard the MB were planting their roots in all facets of Egyptian society. Thanks for your informative response and update Meryt.

While the road is long and full of hurdles, there is no doubt in my mind that those Egyptian who fought to get rid of a corrupt dictator, bribed by the West, were the majority and fought because they wanted to create and develop a better and prosperous society for their kids, not because they were the usual radical extremists on a lost and depriving mission.

I believe Egypt and Egyptians have too much history to just become another Taliban infested nest of lunatics.

Edited November 28, 2012 by BlackRedLittleDevil

[Raptor Witness]

I'm betting on the people of Egypt to bleed until they nullify this new Pharaoh’s declarations.

Morsi flees the palace. I love it.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

What Morsi has done is essentially the same as Hitler with his enabling act of 1933, which, in it's ultimate effect, made his political party the state. I am surprised this has not yet been spotted

[Raptor Witness]

What Morsi has done is essentially the same as Hitler with his enabling act of 1933, which, in it's ultimate effect, made his political party the state. I am surprised this has not yet been spotted

I wonder if he has picked out a plot for himself in the Valley of the Kings yet.

Most Pharoah's like to get started early on the afterlife.

[Raptor Witness]

Egypt will not be free so long as Morsi is in power. Not because he is Islamic, but because he is another puppet of the West.

The U.S. feeds their army, while the people bleed.

It would be better to feed the people of Egypt, and forget the army.

Have you no foresight, Washington? Will you concoct hate and expect kisses?

Leave Israel to God. Let the people of Egypt be the puppets, and peace will come to the Middle East without bribes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wg3GGc-pH4

Edited January 27, 2013 by Raptor Witness