Why do we have a White House Christmas tree?

[Q-C]

I don't anything could stop black friday shoppers. It's an Olympic sport. And I know some are on steroids.

Do you know what the National Retail Council would do if the Government suddenly decided it would no loner recognize Christmas?

I don't think anything could stop black friday shoppers. It's an Olympic sport. And I know some are on steroids.

[pallidin]

Give it up. Christmas is an amazing, wonderful and awesomely beautiful thing to see in the dead of winter.

[Space Commander Travis]

Give it up. Christmas is an amazing, wonderful and awesomely beautiful thing to see in the dead of winter.

Though I do feel sorry for Santa in Australia. Those fur-lined coats and hats* must be no joke. You might have thought that he'd have a change of clothes for antipodean climes, mightn't you.

* Have you ever wondered what fur it is? I bet it's Reindeer. It sevres as a reminder to Prasher and Blancer and whatever they're all called not to slack.

[Q-C]

Give it up. Christmas is an amazing, wonderful and awesomely beautiful thing to see in the dead of winter.

No where did I say we should do away with the lights and sounds and decorations at christmas time. Not one mention of it.

My only question I had in this whole thread is the participation of our Presidents' in a National Christmas Tree lighting which has had Judeo/Christian religious accompaniment and connotations.

Decorate every tree from shore to shore! It is pretty and colorful and warming in winter.

I love it too. Though we do without the shopping and gift giving to everyone we've ever met.

I have no agenda against holiday decorations. And never said I did.

There is a gingerbread house on my counter (daughter and hubby made it) and the house smells like cinnamon and apples.

We will bake cookies and a traditional eastern European bread my grandma made every November and December.

No lights though, my husband has had too many back surgeries and is having another next month.

We enjoy our neighbors' lights and always drive around to look at them.

And every household lets off the big fireworks here, like you would see at a city display. It's amazing.

No campaign against holiday decorations. Never even thought of ending them.

Edited November 25, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[_Only]

My only question I had in this whole thread is the participation of our Presidents' in a National Christmas Tree lighting which has had Judeo/Christian religious accompaniment and connotations.

I'll say it again; the connotations have been almost completely lost in the transformation to a holiday of Santa Claus and snowmen. The figures of Jesus and Mary are now just like any other ambiguous Christmas character.

[Q-C]

Yes, and I've no doubt other share your opinion but...there are others who do not.

the ACLU (I think in the 70's) made sure the Nativity scenes were moved away from the National Tree, so they must not think of them as ambiguous, nor those who support/called for the ACLU's actions. Therefor the National Tree had religious accompaniment around it, along with church choirs. What did they sing?

Have they also moved the ceremony date earlier and earlier, away from "Christmas"? So i can't be alone here in my wondering.

Try putting up displays like Nativities etc in public schools here or at city halls, or singing about christ in schools here. They do upset people.

Someone cares. People are making sure public/Federal places are all-inclusive. How many schools still allow Christmas trees in the halls?

I only say the President of our Nation, who especially now represents more people in our nation than other past Presidents, made me think about questioning the ceremony.

I look at Obama and I see a major change toward an "Everyone is Welcome" as the First Lady says. So I asked how others here felt about the past religious undertones of the ceremony as exclusive to our heavily white American Judeo/Christian past.

Not to be ugly. Not to cancel holiday decorations. But what I thought an honest question I have no answer to.

Edited November 25, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[Purplos]

People get offended for fun these days. "Being offended" is practically an industry.

It's a tree. The tree doesn't ban abortions, or stop stem cell research, or force people to their knees to worship some holy god. The tree sits there looking pretty.

Stop being offended about a tree or what it might symbolize. If you have an issue with a law or something that actually affects people *gasp!* then go deal with that. People who waste all their time an energy on symbols and semantics do not facilitate change.

There is SO much energy wasted over the window dressing instead of what's actually going on in the room.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Purplos

[Sakari]

I could care less what someone elses family has in there house for Christmas, or if they celebrate it. Or what they eat for dinner every night.That is there business.

Just like it is not anyone elses business what I do around Christmas time.

[Space Commander Travis]

Yes, and I've no doubt other share your opinion but...there are others who do not.

Try putting up displays like Nativities etc in public schools here or at city halls, or singing about christ in schools here. They do upset people.

Someone cares.

Mainly the people who make a hobby out of finding things to be Offended about.

[Q-C]

But we are losing these displays in public places. They are being removed/outlawed.

This isn't my personal movement. I haven't supported it by demonstrating or financial support or letter writing.

You have nothing to fear from me. It's happening without me.

It's a minor thread in forum of threads such as "aliens ate my cereal". And it shouldn't be discussed?

Edited November 25, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[Q-C]

I could care less what someone elses family has in there house for Christmas, or if they celebrate it. Or what they eat for dinner every night.That is there business.

Just like it is not anyone elses business what I do around Christmas time.

I hope no one ever tells me what i can do in my own home, short of crimes against another. That is not the point of my thread.

[Star of the Sea]

I know all US Presidents have been Christians, but will the tree tradition last?

For me, it is a prominent symbol of Church&State. It makes a statement.

What do you all think?

Hi QuiteContrary'

Here in the UK Christmas is being pared down (putting it mildly) and if I were an American now, I would say stay with your traditions 'better the devil you know' orelese your country will go down the same route as us British and that isn't such a good idea.

[Sean93]

Because 'murica'.

Okay, I was joking a bit there but in reality, there is a bit of truth to it. American these days love to say "This Christian nation that our fore-fathers founded". Balls. The founding fathers were all for separation of Church and Politics, so you see. The Christmas tree at the WH I can only guess, was started by a Christian president or politician and has run on to this day. Do you think that any presidential candidate who was atheist would ever get into the WH? Of course not...because 'Murica'.

The very fact that Peter Stark had to 'come out' as an Atheist and that it was publicised just shows how banjacked it all is. The fact that religion has a say in poltical affairs and has rooted itself so deeply into it is scary in a way. It's like here in northern Ireland, football and Religion are ,merged into one. Being from a catholic background, if I were to wear a celtic t-shirt and walk into a loyalist area, I would get shanked, but if I were to wear a rangers t-shirt and walk around my own area, I would also get shanked. Football and religion? Politics and religion? Absurd.

I don't think religion poisons everything, but it does poison a good lot of things.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Sean93

[Grandpa Greenman]

If I was president I would have a Yule tree, with Pagan symbols on it. My tree is up and it is Pagan. The way I see it he is renting the house and he can decorate it anyway he wants. Besides it is fun and makes you smile.

[Q-C]

Hi QuiteContrary'

Here in the UK Christmas is being pared down (putting it mildly) and if I were an American now, I would say stay with your traditions 'better the devil you know' orelese your country will go down the same route as us British and that isn't such a good idea.

Thanks, Star of the Sea. How/Why and Where is it being pared down? Due to lack of funding or for other reasons?

Edited November 25, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[Q-C]

Because 'murica'.

Okay, I was joking a bit there but in reality, there is a bit of truth to it. American these days love to say "This Christian nation that our fore-fathers founded". Balls. The founding fathers were all for separation of Church and Politics, so you see. The Christmas tree at the WH I can only guess, was started by a Christian president or politician and has run on to this day. Do you think that any presidential candidate who was atheist would ever get into the WH? Of course not...because 'Murica'.

The very fact that Peter Stark had to 'come out' as an Atheist and that it was publicised just shows how banjacked it all is. The fact that religion has a say in poltical affairs and has rooted itself so deeply into it is scary in a way. It's like here in northern Ireland, football and Religion are ,merged into one. Being from a catholic background, if I were to wear a celtic t-shirt and walk into a loyalist area, I would get shanked, but if I were to wear a rangers t-shirt and walk around my own area, I would also get shanked. Football and religion? Politics and religion? Absurd.

I don't think religion poisons everything, but it does poison a good lot of things.

Thanks, Sean. Yes, over here we are losing certain traditions due to their offense to some or connotations. Laws are being passed to keep certain "religious" stuff out of certain publicly funded places. These had to be lobbied for and supported and interpreted "as in the best public interest" to get them passed as law.

I haven't said anything new. It is all around us.

Edited November 25, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[Q-C]

If I was president I would have a Yule tree, with Pagan symbols on it. My tree is up and it is Pagan. The way I see it he is renting the house and he can decorate it anyway he wants. Besides it is fun and makes you smile.

No, it is not his tree at all, and he cannot decorate it anyway he wants. It is our Nation's Tree. There is a committee (and ACLU) who carefully oversee it all.

I never said it didn't look pretty.

[Q-C]

I could care less what someone elses family has in there house for Christmas, or if they celebrate it. Or what they eat for dinner every night.That is there business.

Just like it is not anyone elses business what I do around Christmas time.

I take back my post that this isn't what the thread is about. Who know what lies ahead. But I hate to go there.

[Sakari]

I hope no one ever tells me what i can do in my own home, short of crimes against another. That is not the point of my thread.

I may be taking the point wrong then. I thought you asked about " church and state ".....

The White house serves as the home for the President and his / her family. What they do as a family should not be considered in with " Church and State ".

My thoughts anyway, sorry if I missed the point.

Edit : dang you you replied seconds before I did.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Sakari

[Star of the Sea]

Thanks, Star of the Sea. How/Why and Where is it being pared down? Due to lack of funding or for other reasons?

Hi!

Christmas has become pared down in the UK because of secularism. Many offices, shops etc won't put up Christmas decorations and cards for fear of upsetting other Religions. Schools are reluctant to do 'nativity plays' in case they offend other faiths.

I find it rather sad as other faiths in England have their festivals and no body complains

Edited November 25, 2012 by Star of the Sea

[Q-C]

I may be taking the point wrong then. I thought you asked about " church and state ".....

The White house serves as the home for the President and his / her family. What they do as a family should not be considered in with " Church and State ".

My thoughts anyway, sorry if I missed the point.

Edit : dang you you replied seconds before I did.

No, this is our National Tree, he doesn't even pick it out, or pick out the decorations. It is meant for all of us in the United States. This is not a personal family tree in the White House. He pushes a button (?) and lights it, that's about it. And it is outside for the public.

Edited November 25, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[Q-C]

Hi!

Christmas has become pared down in the UK because of secularism. Many offices, shops etc won't put up Christmas decorations and cards for fear of upsetting other Religions. Schools are reluctant to do 'nativity plays' in case they offend other faiths.

I find it rather sad as other faiths in England have their festivals and no body complains

Yes, that is what I am talking about. What my OP and posts was meant to convey. How much longer for our Nation's Christmas Tree lit by a President at the White House?

[Q-C]

deleted

Edited November 25, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[Sakari]

No, this is our National Tree, he doesn't even pick it out, or pick out the decorations. It is meant for all of us in the United States. This is not a personal family tree in the White House. He pushes a button (?) and lights it, that's about it. And it is outside for the public.

Sorry, I was thinking the tree inside.....

[Grandpa Greenman]

If it was a national nativity seen then I would say no, but a tree means many things to many people all different. Being that is what we are, it is something to enjoy by all. My JW neighbor would say it is the devils work and that makes me love it all the more.