Are we closing in on Bigfoot?

[keninsc]

It's ok Dude, I know you don't get it and it's ok.

[buckskin scout]

It's ok Dude, I know you don't get it and it's ok.

No, I get it. But the Barrett M107 is a terrible choice of a weapon for the woods. It is maximum range sniper rifle. Fit for open country not a practical choice for the woods.

But if this is to illustrate that magnum revolvers and hunting rifles are too much gun for bears, boars, and bigfoots.. you are mistaken. Especially, in the woods where an encounter will likely happen too close for comfort. And these animals could survive a fatal shot for many many yards running off on adrenalin and bloodrage, and if their coming in the shooter's direction with some serious recompense in mind, well that individual could be up the creek.

[evancj]

You do not need all these high speed expensive weapons to kill bigfoot.

I killed bigfoot years ago with nothing but the power of my mind. All I had to do was accept the fact that they are not real, and boom they went extinct.

The mind can be a very powerful weapon.

[keninsc]

You do not need all these high speed expensive weapons to kill bigfoot.

I killed bigfoot years ago with nothing but the power of my mind. All I had to do was accept the fact that they are not real, and boom they went extinct.

The mind can be a very powerful weapon.

Well, see? That just takes all the fun out of it.

Besides, I require justification for carrying too much equipment in the woods with me.

Edited January 11, 2013 by keninsc

[keninsc]

No, I get it. But the Barrett M107 is a terrible choice of a weapon for the woods. It is maximum range sniper rifle. Fit for open country not a practical choice for the woods.

But if this is to illustrate that magnum revolvers and hunting rifles are too much gun for bears, boars, and bigfoots.. you are mistaken. Especially, in the woods where an encounter will likely happen too close for comfort. And these animals could survive a fatal shot for many many yards running off on adrenalin and bloodrage, and if their coming in the shooter's direction with some serious recompense in mind, well that individual could be up the creek.

Right, but what I'm saying it you can take an Abrams tank in with you, it's impractical as heck, over powered, expensive and all that but you can go to that extreme if you'd like. For me, I'd only need my .45 and then for the actual kill of a Bigfoot, or for those cases when my .45 might not be enough I have my pump action shotgun. One is a rapid deployment weapon, my sidearm, and the second will take just a moment to get out. Now, if I should discover that with all this I'm in a situation this amount of equipment can't get me out of then I was a real dumba$$ for getting myself into this situation to begin with. At some point we all have to recognize that we have to take responsibility for what we do, good or bad.

[buckskin scout]

Right, but what I'm saying it you can take an Abrams tank in with you, it's impractical as heck, over powered, expensive and all that but you can go to that extreme if you'd like. For me, I'd only need my .45 and then for the actual kill of a Bigfoot, or for those cases when my .45 might not be enough I have my pump action shotgun. One is a rapid deployment weapon, my sidearm, and the second will take just a moment to get out. Now, if I should discover that with all this I'm in a situation this amount of equipment can't get me out of then I was a real dumba$$ for getting myself into this situation to begin with. At some point we all have to recognize that we have to take responsibility for what we do, good or bad.

Fair, I am just saying personally I wouldn't be 100% confident that a 45 acp is a reliable boar-buster or bear-buster. One could end up nothing more with an enraged animal and a funeral for their troubles. Shot placement is paramount, mental acuity, and speed are essential which your training and combat experience probably provided. But a 45 acp is better than nothing at all.

First defense - bear spray. Second defense - shotgun or magnum pistol.

[keninsc]

One could end up nothing more with an enraged animal and a funeral for their troubles

I got news for you, in the end that all anyone winds up with.

[buckskin scout]

I got news for you, in the end that all anyone winds up with.

Well aint that the truth, but there is no sense in speeding it up with an enraged apex predator

[keninsc]

Yeah, but the apex preditor fails to realize that I'm not trapped there with him, he's trapped there with me.

If I'm armed, he's mine, keep in mind that a well placed shot from a .22 LR will bring down a grizzly. Hell, if you got the stones for it, then goad the crtitter into charging then side step him as he's about to grab you and cut his throat.

So with that, I'll stick to my choices.

[buckskin scout]

Yeah, but the apex preditor fails to realize that I'm not trapped there with him, he's trapped there with me.

If I'm armed, he's mine, keep in mind that a well placed shot from a .22 LR will bring down a grizzly. Hell, if you got the stones for it, then goad the crtitter into charging then side step him as he's about to grab you and cut his throat.

So with that, I'll stick to my choices.

Let's just say I am a bad loser when it comes to my sole existance and desire to guarantee I win and I walk away from that kind of fight with the least amount of injury... stack the odds in my favour.

But the first thing I would reach for is the mighty can of bear spray.

[media=]

[/media]

Edited January 11, 2013 by Ambush Bug

[buckskin scout]

[keninsc]

Don't get me wrong, pepper spray is a good deterant, however it's got a shelf life and the canisters can leak down without warning over time.

[Q-C]

Let's just say I am a bad loser when it comes to my sole existance and desire to guarantee I win and I walk away from that kind of fight with the least amount of injury... stack the odds in my favour.

But the first thing I would reach for is the mighty can of bear spray.

Very effective! Just make sure you can access it and point it and use it in a couple seconds flat.

Carry more than one.

Practicing could save your life and help it to happen like an instant reflex.

Just carrying it doesn't guarantee you won't freak. And using it quickly and correctly is the only way to protect yourself with it.

No one is used to being charged by grizzlies and who knows how close an encounter might be if you surprise each other.

Confidence and reflex in using what you got for protection is more important than what you got for protection.

Edited January 11, 2013 by QuiteContrary

[Sakari]

Is that you Sakari? Very impressive. The only thing ive ever killed is a spider about an inch in diameter.

I have however killed a musk ox, a bison and numerous foxes on Cabelas alaskan adventures for the xbox.

I highly doubt that counts though.

What does it feel like to kill a beast like that?

No, not me.....I would never kill a bear or Lion.....My arrows were into Elk, and Deer. Had a chance to go to Catalina for a depravation boar hunt, but chickened out

[Sakari]

First defense - bear spray. Second defense - shotgun or magnum pistol.

Good choices, mi nus a pistol. Hitting anything with a pistol is hard enough, now add movement, and being scared.....Not much of a chance. A shotgun, point and shoot, big spread, more then likely a hit.

[buckskin scout]

Don't get me wrong, pepper spray is a good deterant, however it's got a shelf life and the canisters can leak down without warning over time.

But the word is IT WORKS! Where pistols never guarantee a one shot kill especially due to high stress situations and shot placement are paramount... when charged by a mad sow bear protecting her cub or a startled bear, merely grazing the beast or hitting it with a non-fatal shot... will likely make the situation worse further enraging the beast... offering mere micro seconds to seconds to get that critical fatal shot meanwhile the beast running on adrenalin and brimstone.

Very effective! Just make sure you can access it and point it and use it in a couple seconds flat.

Carry more than one.

Practicing could save your life and help it to happen like an instant reflex.

Just carrying it doesn't guarantee you won't freak. And using it quickly and correctly is the only way to protect yourself with it.

No one is used to being charged by grizzlies and who knows how close an encounter might be if you surprise each other.

Confidence and reflex in using what you got for protection is more important than what you got for protection.

Honestly, I would pinch bricks if I got charged by bear. I would like to think I wouldn't freeze that self-preservation would overcome terror. And blast that bear with a cloud of aerosol pepper spray in its eyes, nose, and down its throat. That in my opinion is preferable than trying to kill it and possibly failing to.

Good choices, mi nus a pistol. Hitting anything with a pistol is hard enough, now add movement, and being scared.....Not much of a chance. A shotgun, point and shoot, big spread, more then likely a hit.

The thing is with .00 buck it requires a relatively close target to maintain a close spread and penetration, slugs would probably be a better choice much greater penetration with much greater range. A magnum pistol offers the power and penetration required too though. It just may require training in accuracy, mental acuity, and speed is all.

With that all said and done, I don't even live bear country. I just have alot of respect for bears.

[keninsc]

But the word is IT WORKS! Where pistols never guarantee a one shot kill especially due to high stress situations and shot placement are paramount... when charged by a mad sow bear protecting her cub or a startled bear, merely grazing the beast or hitting it with a non-fatal shot... will likely make the situation worse further enraging the beast... offering mere micro seconds to seconds to get that critical fatal shot meanwhile the beast running on adrenalin and brimstone.

I highly recommend you do some research on pepper spray and bear attacks. You stick with whatever you wish and I'll stick with mine. I pray you never fall victim the myth of pepper spray.

[Sakari]

But the word is IT WORKS! Where pistols never guarantee a one shot kill especially due to high stress situations and shot placement are paramount... when charged by a mad sow bear protecting her cub or a startled bear, merely grazing the beast or hitting it with a non-fatal shot... will likely make the situation worse further enraging the beast... offering mere micro seconds to seconds to get that critical fatal shot meanwhile the beast running on adrenalin and brimstone.

Honestly, I would pinch bricks if I got charged by bear. I would like to think I wouldn't freeze that self-preservation would overcome terror. And blast that bear with a cloud of aerosol pepper spray in its eyes, nose, and down its throat. That in my opinion is preferable than trying to kill it and possibly failing to.

The thing is with .00 buck it requires a relatively close target to maintain a close spread and penetration, slugs would probably be a better choice much greater penetration with much greater range. A magnum pistol offers the power and penetration required too though. It just may require training in accuracy, mental acuity, and speed is all.

With that all said and done, I don't even live bear country. I just have alot of respect for bears.

A Bear charging you is coming head first. A lot of shot should hit the nose and face area. It would not take much, along with the loud bang.

I do have a friend whom's father is a hunting guide in Alaska. My friend had been sitting outside of the tent, and thought a vulture was eating the Moose they had hung.It ended up being a Grizzly. He ran back to his tent, not much time to spare, grabbed his .357 magnum, and emptied it at the charging bear. It fell about 12 feet in front of him. What Bill did not know at first, his Grandpa heard the ruccus, and emptied to 12 gauge shotgun shells at it also.

I did not believe him, until I saw the pictures, and heard it from all present. Luckily, one member of the party had a bear tag.

Wish I had pics to share, he is now 500 miles away, and do not hear from him much.

[buckskin scout]

I highly recommend you do some research on pepper spray and bear attacks. You stick with whatever you wish and I'll stick with mine. I pray you never fall victim the myth of pepper spray.

Is bear spray effective?

If you're able to hit the bear in the face, you're in business. Most likely the bear will make an instant, confused retreat. It won't knock a bear out, but it will definitely make it forget it wants to eat you. Capsaicin has the same effect on bears that it does on humans. They'll feel an instant burning sensation wherever you hit them, so just like humans, it's best to get them in the face. The eyes, nose and lungs will all burn like fire, causing the mucous membrane tissues to swell.

A face hit almost guarantees temporary blindness and big-time breathing problems. But the good news is that the sting will eventually subside and by that time, either you or the bear are long gone. You have all your limbs in tact, and the bear suffers no permanent damage. The same can't be said about bullets.

What can be said for bullets? They don't always thwart an attack. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service investigated human and bear encounters from 1992 to 2005 and found that people who defended themselves with firearms were injured about 50 percent of the time by the bear. People who used the bear spray escaped injury 98 percent of the time, and the few injuries they suffered were far less severe than those in the gun-toting realm. Why? Because it's difficult to stop a bear with a gun and wounded bears are more likely to become even more aggressive.

Another study was performed by Thomas Smith, a bear biologist from Brigham Young University. After analyzing 20 years of bear incidents, he found that bear spray was effective 92 percent of the time, compared to 67 percent for guns. Add to this that you can't bring guns into many national parks, and it seems like the spray is the best way to go.

Research has shown that it takes an average of four direct hits with a bullet to stop a bear [source: Science Daily]. Do you feel like you're a good enough shot to pull this off when a 600-pound (272-kg) grizzly is coming at you at 35 miles per hour (56 kph)? Accuracy isn't nearly as important with bear spray since you're shooting a wide cloud of smoke at your threat. Wind may be an issue, but the Wildlife Service study found that it only affected the shot 7 percent of the time and in each case, the spray still reached the bear. If you happen to shoot yourself or a friend as well, the effect of the bear spray will be the same as human pepper spray and will wear off after a few hours of discomfort.

Don't spray me, bro!

One problem that law officers have faced lately is incidents of humans using bear spray on other humans -- and not in self-defense. Perhaps it's because of the likelihood of a direct hit, or the distance at which it can be fired. Maybe it has something to do with the way of life in rural areas -- people are more likely to have bear spray in their glove compartment. There were three incidences on record in August 2008 in the Canadian province of Saskatchewan alone. In one case, a teenager was jumped by a gang of toughs, beaten and hit with a shot of bear spray only inches from his face, which swelled to twice its normal size as a result. Another incident involved a random, unprovoked attack on the streets and yet another pitted two women against each other in a nightclub. "Oh Canada," indeed.

Read the whole 4 page article here: http://adventure.how...bear-spray2.htm

Edited January 12, 2013 by Ambush Bug

[keninsc]

http://www.backpacker.com/september_1999_nature_threats_gear_bear_spray_facts/gear/1224

There's what "Backpacker" magazine thought about it.

Personally, if you're not able to properly use/employ a firearm then my causal guess would be that you'll not be able to use pepper spray properly. I could be wrong and I hope I am.

[Wolfman 1993]

personally, I dont find Bigfoot all that improbable. sightings have been made every where through out the country, and not even just ours. I dont see Bigfoot as some mythical being that walks through dimensions, more, I see it as a breed of North American gorilla. we know gorillas exist, and it definitely possesses the qualities, so it couldnt be all that hard to believe.

[evancj]

personally, I dont find Bigfoot all that improbable. sightings have been made every where through out the country, and not even just ours. I dont see Bigfoot as some mythical being that walks through dimensions, more, I see it as a breed of North American gorilla. we know gorillas exist, and it definitely possesses the qualities, so it couldnt be all that hard to believe.

With the main differences being;

The regions in Africa where gorillas are KNOWN to exist are far more remote and difficult to get to than anywhere in North America, and covered with dense tropical forests that are far more dangerous (for many reasons) than any place in North America.

Yet we have thousands of clear photos, and videos of gorillas. People and dogs can track, find, kill and capture them on a regular basis. We find the remains of their dead, and the impact they have on their environment. And we have hundreds of gorillas in zoos around the world.

Sooooo...if bigfoot is nothing more than the North American version of an African gorilla then why can't we get one good photo of single specimen, or capture, kill, or ever find a dead one?

Edited January 13, 2013 by evancj

[buckskin scout]

http://www.backpacke...facts/gear/1224

There's what "Backpacker" magazine thought about it.

Personally, if you're not able to properly use/employ a firearm then my causal guess would be that you'll not be able to use pepper spray properly. I could be wrong and I hope I am.

Here is what that articles says:

Yes it works, But...

"This Stuff Isn't Brains In A Can"

The big question, the one you don't want to answer while face to fang with a grizzly, is: Does bear spray really work? The answer is a qualified "yes," according to Stephen Herrero, Ph.D., author of Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance and professor of environmental science, University of Calgary, Alberta.

Dr. Herrero, a noted researcher of bear behavior and attacks, along with Andrew Higgins, a university colleague, examined 66 field cases in which various brands of spray were used on black and grizzly bears that displayed behavior ranging from overly curious to actively aggressive toward humans. They concluded that, "while we don't know how these encounters would have ended in the absence of spray, the use...appears to have prevented injury in most cases," Dr. Herrero says.

Dr. Herrero, other bear experts, and even spray manufacturers agree on one important point, however. Bear spray is a last resort after all other appropriate precautions--storing food in bearproof containers, keeping a clean camp, making lots of noise while hiking, steering clear of areas with fresh bear scat or digs--have failed and you suddenly find yourself confronted by an aggressive or persistent bruin. Says Dr. Herrero, quoting a fellow grizzly researcher, "This stuff isn't brains in a can."

The best solution is take every care and precaution against a bear attack by carrying a whistle, etc. with proper preparedness as to not startle a bear or attract a bear.

Some people will stick to their guns pardon the pun and other will put their faith in the bear spray, there are brands that can spray between 25-40 feet. And this article stated do not choose a brand that shoots a stream but rather a cloud. An idiot can use bear spray but it is standing your ground during a charge that is utmost important.

Personally, I have read somewhere a 45 ACP is best suited for animals between 200-300 lbs. Well a grizzly for instance is 2-3Xs heavier. One may be undergunned with a 45 ACP against bears. One may empty a 7 round clip into a bear especially the larger species and it may still survive or maul (potentially kill) the individual before it expires.

And just because one person drops an individual representing a species of bear with one shot from particular caliber of gun doesn't mean it will always drop that bear with one shot either.

[Sakari]

Here is what that articles says:

The best solution is take every care and precaution against a bear attack by carrying a whistle, etc. with proper preparedness as to not startle a bear or attract a bear.

Some people will stick to their guns pardon the pun and other will put their faith in the bear spray, there are brands that can spray between 25-40 feet. And this article stated do not choose a brand that shoots a stream but rather a cloud. An idiot can use bear spray but it is standing your ground during a charge that is utmost important.

Personally, I have read somewhere a 45 ACP is best suited for animals between 200-300 lbs. Well a grizzly for instance is 2-3Xs heavier. One may be undergunned with a 45 ACP against bears. One may empty a 7 round clip into a bear especially the larger species and it may still survive or maul (potentially kill) the individual before it expires.

And just because one person drops an individual representing a species of bear with one shot from particular caliber of gun doesn't mean it will always drop that bear with one shot either.

Good article :

In this section we discuss the use of handguns as a means of defense in the wild. In North America this would include animals like bears, mountain lions, wolves and in many cases smaller animals infected with diseases like rabies which pose a threat.

Some of these predators in the North West, Canada and Alaska can be quite large. The large bears of this region have been known to reach 1600 pounds in weight. Even black bears in the lower states can reach over 600 pounds. The cats like mountain lions, and cougars are much smaller reaching perhaps 200 pounds and wolves are typically in the 100-150 pound range. Because of this great discrepancy in size the choice of a handgun for defense in the wild depends on where in the wild you are.

http://www.firearmssite.com/selfwild.htm

[Hawken]

I've always often wondered if these creatures do exist based on all the reports around the world.

it's just that there is denial that they exist because the scientific community doesn't want a bunch

of redneck hunters wondering through the forest looking to kill them. Look what happened to the

buffalo and the wolf.