Gay marriage 'to be illegal'

[shadowhive]

You should calm down. You are being melodramatic. I am smart enough to know. That whether I agree with it or not. The Church of England and the Catholic Church. Base their religious canon on the BIble. I didn't say they should follow it. I observed that they do follow it. They are much more conservative than I am. And no I don't believe that every Christian should be playing on the same playsheet. The same way I don't believe every Jew should. There is not one interpretation. Those suggesting there is are very silly in my opinion.

And yet at the mere sugestion that those churches should change, you bring out that nope, they can't because the bible says so.

If other churches have their own intepretation, if other churches are more liberal and have changed why do you have such a problem with even the suggestion that churches can change?

[Mr Right Wing]

It hits you... You are one min reading a story about gays and marriage, who's forcing who to do what and so on.............Then you hear a much bigger and more shocking, sad news story ..and you stop and think why am I getting wrapped up in something that is minor compared to something that is more tragic ?

My views as of now are - I really do not care what happens with the gays and the churches, I have come to realize that my family are all that matters.. Having watched and listened to a more tragic story on Sky News at this present time, I really think these sort of issues are small and not worth it..

Until next week when yet again the same thing happens in the US?

Dysfunctional state.

[Cassea]

And yet at the mere sugestion that those churches should change, you bring out that nope, they can't because the bible says so.

If other churches have their own intepretation, if other churches are more liberal and have changed why do you have such a problem with even the suggestion that churches can change?

I think you have a hard time understanding this because you don't believe in God. To you it is a choice. To you it is flexible etc. The Catholic Church and the Church of England are very conservative. So no I don't see them changing their position any time soon. I think it is a waste of time to expect it.

[shadowhive]

No I'm going to argue that gays, women, immigrants and the religious are all entitled to exactly the same rights under law.

Trying to isolate religion from the equalities act is not only a charming attitude it sets a dangerous precedent. One day its lets isolate them off the next day its our rights are more important than theirs.

Hitler would be proud of you right now.

Religion, again in my opinion, should be given all the same rights but yes it should be isolated from the others (as you put it). It is, after all, a completely different beast. It should be treated as such. That way religious groups can have all the protections they want, just seperate from every other group.

Your comparison is childish.

[Mr Right Wing]

Religion, again in my opinion, should be given all the same rights but yes it should be isolated from the others (as you put it). It is, after all, a completely different beast. It should be treated as such. That way religious groups can have all the protections they want, just seperate from every other group.

Your comparison is childish.

Thats how its starts

Edited December 14, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[shadowhive]

It hits you... You are one min reading a story about gays and marriage, who's forcing who to do what and so on.............Then you hear a much bigger and more shocking, sad news story ..and you stop and think why am I getting wrapped up in something that is minor compared to something that is more tragic ?

My views as of now are - I really do not care what happens with the gays and the churches, I have come to realize that my family are all that matters.. Having watched and listened to a more tragic story on Sky News at this present time, I really think these sort of issues are small and not worth it..

When i heard that news all I think of is the same thing I always do. When is America going to wake up and realise it's attitude to firearms is a complete failure. Every single death could have eben avoided y tighter gun control laws, yet Americans seem uninterested in impletementing them.

A different topic of course, but just what I think.

[Mr Right Wing]

When i heard that news all I think of is the same thing I always do. When is America going to wake up and realise it's attitude to firearms is a complete failure. Every single death could have eben avoided y tighter gun control laws, yet Americans seem uninterested in impletementing them.

A different topic of course, but just what I think.

Its not the gun its the mind pulling the trigger.

US society is dysfunctional. Narcissism and defective self-images are out of control over there.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Beckys_Mom]

Until next week when yet again the same thing happens in the US?

Dysfunctional state.

What do you mean?

[shadowhive]

I think you have a hard time understanding this because you don't believe in God. To you it is a choice. To you it is flexible etc. The Catholic Church and the Church of England are very conservative. So no I don't see them changing their position any time soon. I think it is a waste of time to expect it.

The odd thing is most people in the church of england (including bishops and priests) actually are open to same sex marriage laws and open to the possibility of having them in churches. So no, change in the church of england's just a matter of time and it should be treaated as such. The catholic church? It's harder, but then its hard to take it seriously.

I''m not going to stop hoping for change just because you think it's impossible. You don't have to go far back in time to find other impossible things that are now accepted wholeheartedly by most christians.

[shadowhive]

Thats how its starts

Such a child.

Of course you mispresent what I say. I wonder, if I said that I'd change it so immigrants had seperate rights would you have such an issue? How about Muslims?

Its not the gun its the mind pulling the trigger.

US society is dysfunctional. Narcissism and defective self-images are out of control over there.

True, it is the mind. But a person with access to guns can do a lot of damage and, if those guns are easy to get hold of it makes things more likely.

[Dash--]

What way have I stated?

The broad generalization that all Christians consider homosexuality a sin.I don't...and yeah...I've read the Bible.

[Mr Right Wing]

What do you mean?

It needs a seperate thread and I will gladly join

[Cassea]

The broad generalization that all Christians consider homosexuality a sin.I don't...and yeah...I've read the Bible.

Please show me where I have stated that. It makes no sense that you even say that. Since I have stated that. They should go to a different church to get married. How would they do that. If all Christians consider homosexuality a sin?

You make no sense.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Cassea

[Mr Right Wing]

1. Of course you mispresent what I say. I wonder, if I said that I'd change it so immigrants had seperate rights would you have such an issue? How about Muslims?

2. True, it is the mind. But a person with access to guns can do a lot of damage and, if those guns are easy to get hold of it makes things more likely.

1. Being anti-immigration doesnt mean that those already here should be denied their rights. They should have full rights and I would back them if there was ever any doubt.

2. Lock the gun away and they go and get a sword or knife instead. If someone is determined to kill they will kill.

[shadowhive]

1. Being anti-immigration doesnt mean that those already here should be denied their rights. They should have full rights and I would back them if there was ever any doubt.

Somehow I don't trust what you say. You've never shown yourself to be reasonable.

Also note that I said religious rights should be seperate, but equal. Not that they'd be diminised.

Religion does't deserve to be counted with the others, since it's spent a great deal of time fighting to make sure ethnic, woman's and gay rights were low.

2. Lock the gun away and they go and get a sword or knife instead. If someone is determined to kill they will kill.

True, but you can do more damage with a gun. With a gun you can kill multiple people in quick sucession from a distance with little effort. With a knife or sword, you have to get up close, you have to know where to hit and you have to have the strength to do it. To top it off, after you stab one person with a knife, others can get away before you get the cchance to get them.

But like I say, different topic entirely.

Edited December 14, 2012 by shadowhive

[Cassea]

Somehow I don't trust what you say. You've never shown yourself to be reasonable.

Also note that I said religious rights should be seperate, but equal. Not that they'd be diminised.

Religion does't deserve to be counted with the others, since it's spent a great deal of time fighting to make sure ethnic, woman's and gay rights were low.

You don't get to just continue to tell us what we really. Think and Believe. That is arrogant and wrong.

[shadowhive]

You don't get to just continue to tell us what we really. Think and Believe. That is arrogant and wrong.

And yet you get to say what everyone in the church of england should think and believe. Somehow that is not arrogant and wrong

[Cassea]

And yet you get to say what everyone in the church of england should think and believe. Somehow that is not arrogant and wrong

What kind of utter foolishness is this statement. I am not saying what they should. I'm observing what they say they do. You keep making silly points. This is because you realize that your argument is full of holes.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Cassea

[Mr Right Wing]

Religion does't deserve to be counted with the others, since it's spent a great deal of time fighting to make sure ethnic, woman's and gay rights were low.

I think you need to get down off your high horse.

Thankfully we live in a Democracy so you'll never get your chance to punish religion.

[shadowhive]

What kind of utter foolishness is this statement. I am not saying what they should. I'm observing what they say they do. You keep making silly points. This is because you realize that your argument is full of holes.

I, too, observe what they do. I have observed that what they say they do changes with time. Only now I'm told, by you, that nope, change for them is a myth.

[shadowhive]

I think you need to get down off your high horse.

Thankfully we live in a Democracy so you'll never get your chance to punish religion.

I'm not on a high horse. Just stating facts.

A few examples. The church was among the last to give up slaves and used the bible as an excuse to keep them. The church fought against interacial marriage. The church has had long standing issues with women. This topic shows it still has issues with gay people.

Putting religion with those groups is like locking a bunch of sheep in a pen and tossing a wolf in with them.

How is giving religion the same rights it has now, just putting them seperate from other people's rights punishment exactly? Personally I just want to keep the wolf away from the sheep.

Edited December 14, 2012 by shadowhive

[Cassea]

I, too, observe what they do. I have observed that what they say they do changes with time. Only now I'm told, by you, that nope, change for them is a myth.

This is what I think they call. Moving the goal posts. You have completely changed your discussion. Because you realize that were not making sense. You personally wanting them to change over time. You say you don't want immediate change anyway. You recognize that futility. If so, you should have no issue with the OP. The entire line of discussion has been filled. With your double speak. At least admit that it makes no sense for you to feel outraged. That they want to protect themselves. From being forced to perform gay weddings.

[Mr Right Wing]

I'm not on a high horse. Just stating facts.

A few examples. The church was among the last to give up slaves and used the bible as an excuse to keep them. The church fought against interacial marriage. The church has had long standing issues with women. This topic shows it still has issues with gay people.

Putting religion with those groups is like locking a bunch of sheep in a pen and tossing a wolf in with them.

How is giving religion the same rights it has now, just putting them seperate from other people's rights punishment exactly? Personally I just want to keep the wolf away from the sheep.

Why are all your anti-Christain arguments historical?

[Mr Right Wing]

This is what I think they call. Moving the goal posts. You have completely changed your discussion. Because you realize that were not making sense. You personally wanting them to change over time. You say you don't want immediate change anyway. You recognize that futility. If so, you should have no issue with the OP. The entire line of discussion has been filled. With your double speak. At least admit that it makes no sense for you to feel outraged. That they want to protect themselves. From being forced to perform gay weddings.

I too have noticed this.

If the guy is so desperate to wear a frock theres plenty of womens clothing shops about lol

[shadowhive]

This is what I think they call. Moving the goal posts. You have completely changed your discussion. Because you realize that were not making sense. You personally wanting them to change over time. You say you don't want immediate change anyway. You recognize that futility. If so, you should have no issue with the OP. The entire line of discussion has been filled. With your double speak. At least admit that it makes no sense for you to feel outraged. That they want to protect themselves. From being forced to perform gay weddings.

What I want: Religions to change over time.

What I dont want: To force them to change

What you think I want: To force them to change right now.

What I see happening: Change possible in the future.

Right. To the OP I will bullet point this, which is the timeline for the law.

1: The government announces its looking into introducing same sex civil marriage. It says that NO church will be forced to do it. In fact, no church will be allowed to either.

2: The catholic and church of England (and, yes, Jews and Muslims) imidiately say that no same sex marriage should be allowed: even civil ones.

3: Smaller, more liberal religious organisations make their voice heard. They want to perform religious same sex marriages.

4: The government confirms it's looking into HOW not IF it will be introducing same sex amrriage. It also makes it clear that no church will be forced into doing it.

5: The catholic church and church of england complain again. They still don't want ANY same sex marriage. They also say they'll be forced, even though the government has said they won't be.

6: The government makes this announcemet, the one in the op. It confirms that they'll bring in same sex civil marriage, please an opt in for every religion bar the church of england (where instead, it will be banned) .

Every step of the way, the government have said that the church won't be forced to do a thing. Every time they have (until now) the church have ignored that.

Like I have said, they have already got protections in place. They do not have to perform hetrosexual weddings if they don't agree with it. Personally, the law they had to cover that was more than adequete to protect them. After all, it's been adequte enough to protect them from being sued by hetrosexuals (when have you heard of a hetrosexual suing the church to get married and winning?) so why do they need the quadruple lock that they do now? Personally it all just seems redundant. I also think that the church of england being banned outright (without the option to opt in like everyone else) is heavy handed and wrong.