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Still Waters

Gay marriage 'to be illegal'

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Personally I think the actions taken there were wrong. BUT I think the church posting that purposely put such a thing up to cause trouble. You have to wonder why else a church would put up such a message, especially since it's something that would obviously create problems,

However, you're doing an indentical thing as to what you're excusing Jgirl of. Bringing up an extreme incident and trying to paint everyone as being the same.

No I'm not. I am showing that anyone can drag up a dramatic extreme. And try to paint it as the norm. I wrote "This is an exaggeration" and posted the video. That's the same thing with the naked nuns. The point is you see the Church as 100 percent wrong. They see you as 100 percent wrong. But those of us in the middle. See both of you as wrong for not. Respecting the views and opinions of others. You are no better than they are. You've insulted me because I have not agreed with you. That would be considered childish. In any other type of discussion. The whole thing is childish.

Edited by Cassea

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i guess for some it's about the fight - it might not be good for this generation or maybe not the next but hopefully they'll have paved the way for future couples who do want that to be part of their vows.

i don't see why it's necessary to go to a building and have some official person get between you and your god anyway.

I think churches will change in the future, like they have on just about anything else. It's just a matter of time. I think the law to protect' the church of england will become a roadblock in a few years, which will take extra mone and time to get removed.

I dunno either.

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No I'm not. I am showing that anyone can drag up a dramatic extreme. And try to paint it as the norm. I wrote "This is an exaggeration" and posted the video. That's the same thing with the naked nuns. The point is you see the Church as 100 percent wrong. They see you as 100 percent wrong. But those of us in the middle. See both of you as wrong for not. Respecting the views and opinions of others. You are no better than they are. You've insulted me because I have not agreed with you. That would be considered childish. In any other type of discussion. The whole thing is childish.

I see the church as 100% wrong on this issue, because of the shameful way it treats gay people. I don't think everyone in the church acts like westboro, but the church constantly going on and on about homosexuality being a sin does great damage to people. At worst, it encourages violence and negative behaviour. It doesnt, in any way, help a single person. All it does is put gay people down and that is wrong. I don't think that they should be given a free pass just because their bible says so. Doing so sends the wrong message entirely and helps no one.

Why should a belief that harms people be respected?

All I see from you is a person that wants to defend a belief even though it harms people and you act just like they do.

Edited by shadowhive

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i guess for some it's about the fight - it might not be good for this generation or maybe not the next but hopefully they'll have paved the way for future couples who do want that to be part of their vows.

i don't see why it's necessary to go to a building and have some official person get between you and your god anyway.

I can also understand this, maybe its like a subconscious thing if the church accepts my marriage then maybe they'll accept me...especially if the people involved are religious.
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I see the church as 100% wrong on this issue, because of the shameful way it treats gay people. I don't think everyone in the church acts like westboro, but the church constantly going on and on about homosexuality being a sin does great damage to people. At worst, it encourages violence and negative behaviour. It doesnt, in any way, help a single person. All it does is put gay people down and that is wrong. I don't think that they should be given a free pass just because their bible says so. Doing so sends the wrong message entirely and helps no one.

Why should a belief that harms people be respected?

The church goes on and on about many things. It is their job to do so. If you don't want to hear it. Stop listening to them. They have no power over a non member. I am a sinner too. I accept that I am forgiven. I repent. I try to improve. But I still sin. I don't protest outside the church. Because they call my sin a sin.

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did someone say naked nuns......where :innocent:

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I think churches will change in the future, like they have on just about anything else. It's just a matter of time. I think the law to protect' the church of england will become a roadblock in a few years, which will take extra mone and time to get removed.

I dunno either.

my hope is that new faiths/churches will arise that suit those discriminated against from the start rather than them being fitted into an existing intolerance structure.

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The church goes on and on about many things. It is their job to do so. If you don't want to hear it. Stop listening to them. They have no power over a non member. I am a sinner too. I accept that I am forgiven. I repent. I try to improve. But I still sin. I don't protest outside the church. Because they call my sin a sin.

No, the church does not live in it's own special little bubble. It interferes with others. It stops and stalls progress and what is said in church doesn't stay in church. When I was bullied, some of the bullies were the children of belieers so they took what they were told in chuch and applied it to the world, to me, even though I wasnt a believer.

Secondly is the whole problem of sin. Premarital sex (for example) is a sin, yet where's the campaign to ban it? The vast majority of things listed as sins are confined to the churchs bubble and even then they don't go overboard like they do for homosexuality.

A last point is that, yes they only have real power on members. But thats a problem too. Any gay person in a church or raised in a church environment is efffected negatively by the teachings. Psychologically it's incredibly damaging and halts the development of the person. Another part is related to point two. Many, many kids are disowned by religions families for being gay. Yet how often does that happen for other sins?

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I might have known it was FEMEN but lol yep naked nuns :tu:

Femen are absolutely crazy, have you seen their facebook page.....I used to follow them but dont use facebook so much these days.

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When it comes to the topic of homosexuality, the church seems to be no better than a high school bully. And yet we should never treat it as one. No, the church is special. We need to protect it, we can't risk hurting its feelings.

I'm sorry but Im a big believer that bullies shouldt be tolerated, be it in the playground of in adult society.

It's either religion's form of segregation, the government's form of segregation or you own beliefs. No matter what you do in life someone will try bring you down for their own devices.

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No, the church does not live in it's own special little bubble. It interferes with others. It stops and stalls progress and what is said in church doesn't stay in church. When I was bullied, some of the bullies were the children of belieers so they took what they were told in chuch and applied it to the world, to me, even though I wasnt a believer.

Secondly is the whole problem of sin. Premarital sex (for example) is a sin, yet where's the campaign to ban it? The vast majority of things listed as sins are confined to the churchs bubble and even then they don't go overboard like they do for homosexuality.

A last point is that, yes they only have real power on members. But thats a problem too. Any gay person in a church or raised in a church environment is efffected negatively by the teachings. Psychologically it's incredibly damaging and halts the development of the person. Another part is related to point two. Many, many kids are disowned by religions families for being gay. Yet how often does that happen for other sins?

That's what you refuse to see. I am not going to a Church. And asking the priest to announce. That it is perfectly fine for me to have premarital sex. And to give me his blessing in front of the world. I do my thing and don't talk about it. The beliefs in the church are the beliefs in the church. I don't bemoan being told my sin is a sin. You do. That's the difference.

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That's what you refuse to see. I am not going to a Church. And asking the priest to announce. That it is perfectly fine for me to have premarital sex. And to give me his blessing in front of the world. I do my thing and don't talk about it. The beliefs in the church are the beliefs in the church. I don't bemoan being told my sin is a sin. You do. That's the difference.

Let me tell you something. Today anti-gay discrimination and bullying is a problem. Not a minor one either, a serious one. This is, in no small part, down to the church and its teachings. The church has to take responsibility for the part it plays and, not only that, but try and make an effort to curb it. As it stands, the church seems both unwilling and unable to do so in an effective way.

The beliefs in church are NOT just the beliefs in church. They bleed out into society at large and effect people negatively.

Homosexuality shouldn't have been a sin in the first place. It was labelled as one by uninformed people that didn't know any better. We know more now and people should start acting like we do.

Edited by shadowhive

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Homosexuality is a sin. Like other sins. if you don't believe in sin. Then you don't believe in the BIble. The Bible is what it is. You can't force the world to reject the Bible. To accept your world view. You feel that way. Live that way. Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. As I stated earlier. You don't blame the Jews and the Moslems and all the other religions that don't accept homosexuality. This is your personal baggage. Stop trying to force it on everyone else. Live and be who you are. We all have struggles in life.

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Oh my god... see? Back again to square one.

You missed my point entirely and I'm tired of trying to explain because every time I reply to something you say it's always "That's not the issue that's not the issue".

I'm not getting anywhere with you. It's like trying to haul a heavy wagon with square wheels. Eventually you just have to give up and go have a drink.

ditto..

i have some good headache pills that seem to be working now..

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The anti-homosexual content is up to debate in the bible. Which is why I like organized religion which place importance on the things that matter and translate for what the story was trying to say. The case for it is flimsy at best. I could point to more proof that not allowing it is more of a sin then actually doing it in the first place.

I am not against allowing people to hold their own beliefs, but I will call them out when their beliefs are illogical and stupid.

If you believe in the personified God bible and the teachings of Jesus they should follow it. Give what has been given to you, free-will/Choice and remember at the end of the day, that the personified God that they believe in is their final judge(Even though I'm not Christian I do like my real name which means God is my judge), not them. Half tempted to write a letter to the Pope(would also send to the other leaders of religion as well) explaining this concept but then I realize only one outcome would happen..... I'd most likely get the people who so fervently protect their misguided beliefs to lash out and cry to have me crucified. Which is somewhat ironic.

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Homosexuality is a sin. Like other sins. if you don't believe in sin. Then you don't believe in the BIble. The Bible is what it is. You can't force the world to reject the Bible. To accept your world view. You feel that way. Live that way. Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. As I stated earlier. You don't blame the Jews and the Moslems and all the other religions that don't accept homosexuality. This is your personal baggage. Stop trying to force it on everyone else. Live and be who you are. We all have struggles in life.

I've said, numerous times now, that I absolutely would called jews and muslims out for their equally idiotic beliefs. But the majority of people here are chirstian so those are the ones mentioned most.

The big three religions seem to have a problem with treating other's in a decent manner, so until they do, yes the teaching is a problem. And as long as they try and force everyone to abide by what they say (which, again, is what theyve tried to do from the start) it is absolutely my buisness to tell them no.

You want to know why this matters to me? I know that children suffer because of religious bullies and I do not want any of my future children to have to face the same sort of bullying I did.But no, You always make out that I'm trying to force them to do things with no good reason. And I know why, because then you can get on your high horse and in my face, because you can defend them and all it does is further legitimising the bullying and discrimination that is already rife. Personally I want such things to stop, not be protected and defended.

It's a shame you want bullying behaviour defended. It's a shame that you're ok with religion forcing it's way on others. It's a shame that when people try and stop that from happening, they get labelled as trying to force the church to do things so that the church gets to play the victim.

You know what gets to me most though? The hyocrisy of those religions. One of the key tenants is love thy neighbour and to treat others as you wish to be treated. That is meant to be rule number 1, because that is what jesus taught. Yet time again christians ignore that primary rule and focus instead on treating other people shameful instead. It just shows they can't even grasp the most basic concept of their own religion. It really amazes me that christians are supposed to jollow the teachings of jesus, yet they seem to prefer to follow the ones in the bible that come from other people instead.

And, of course, both the church of england and catholic church are hypocrites themselves for the obvious reasons.

What is lucicrous about the whole 'force' arguement is that the current law is that any man can marry any woman (as long as they're of consenting age and not related), yet the church is not forced to marry anyone. They can freely reject any hetrosexual couple from marrying for just about any reason and that is not illegal. No one forces churches to marry anyone. So why, why, does the church need extra protection when they already have it in place? It's beyond me.

Edited by shadowhive

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No, the church does not live in it's own special little bubble. It interferes with others. It stops and stalls progress and what is said in church doesn't stay in church. When I was bullied, some of the bullies were the children of belieers so they took what they were told in chuch and applied it to the world, to me, even though I wasnt a believer.

Secondly is the whole problem of sin. Premarital sex (for example) is a sin, yet where's the campaign to ban it? The vast majority of things listed as sins are confined to the churchs bubble and even then they don't go overboard like they do for homosexuality.

A last point is that, yes they only have real power on members. But thats a problem too. Any gay person in a church or raised in a church environment is efffected negatively by the teachings. Psychologically it's incredibly damaging and halts the development of the person. Another part is related to point two. Many, many kids are disowned by religions families for being gay. Yet how often does that happen for other sins?

The hetrosexual mind is not wired up like the homosexual one.

If you ask a hetrosexual what they think about it they -

1. Start by putting themselves into your shoes.

2. Try to imagine what it would be like.

3. Quickly reach the conclusion that its weird.

It isnt hate, bigotry, living in denial, religious indocturnation or lack of education (although for a few it might be). Its that to them the act of homosexuality is weird. I'm not trying to be offensive just to express what it is that makes people anti-gay so you understand. I obviously know that from your point of view you dont experience it as being weird.

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The Catholic Church, Church of England and where I come from, is known as The Church of Ireland...I cannot see them ever marrying gays.. What I do know is, from their bible, homosexuality is a sin, but these churches will indeed marry sinners as often as possible...There is no such thing as a sinless person that belongs to Christianity

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It isnt hate, bigotry, living in denial, religious indocturnation or lack of education (although for a few it might be). Its that to them the act of homosexuality is weird. I'm not trying to be offensive just to express what it is that makes people anti-gay so you understand.

There's a world of difference between finding someone's behaviour weird, and telling them they'll go to hell for practicing an abomination and that they should not have the same rights as others as a result.

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The hetrosexual mind is not wired up like the homosexual one.

If you ask a hetrosexual what they think about it they -

1. Start by putting themselves into your shoes.

2. Try to imagine what it would be like.

3. Quickly reach the conclusion that its weird.

It isnt hate, bigotry, living in denial, religious indocturnation or lack of education (although for a few it might be). Its that to them the act of homosexuality is weird. I'm not trying to be offensive just to express what it is that makes people anti-gay so you understand. I obviously know that from your point of view you dont experience it as being weird.

The same could be true of just about anything though. Let me give you an example. I don't like or understand football. So I could try and think what it would be like to like football and come to the conclusion that I still don't like it and find it strange.

Now the thing is, while I find liking football to be strange, I don't care if people do or not (and certainly don't care enough to try and ban it even though I think its strange). YI can understand that there are people thhat do like and it doesnt bother me that they do in the slightlest. Yet when it comes to sexual orientation an odd thing happens. Yes, they go through the process that you describe, but the result is different than my example of football. I know that football is strange to me, but not to others. Whereas hetrosexuals seem to think that not only is homosexuality weird to them, it must be weird to everyone. Why is that?

However, what you say doesn't explain what makes people anti-gay. If you're hetrosexual and homosexuality is not for you, fair enough, there's no issue there. The problem is that, for anti-gay people, thats not enough and they want everyone to think that.

To me sexuality is an aspect of human attraction. Everyone finds different people attractive, yet only when its people of a different gender that it become s a problem.

Edited by shadowhive
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Speaking of seeing something as strange - Being left handed, each time I see someone writing using their right hand, to me that looks awkward and a bit strange lol..Same when I see right handed people hold knife and fork..again strange to me...

Hmm maybe I should protest it, and claim that it should be illegal to be right handed.. Ban all right handed people, it's an abomination..force them all to be left handed, they are all possessed by right handed demons..Everything right handers touch goes wrong, this is why our planet is already doomed <_<

I face palm my post with my left hand lol

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Yes, they go through the process that you describe, but the result is different than my example of football. I know that football is strange to me, but not to others. Whereas hetrosexuals seem to think that not only is homosexuality weird to them, it must be weird to everyone. Why is that?

People see their view of reality as being correct and apply it to other people.

We all do it.

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Speaking of seeing something as strange - Being left handed, each time I see someone writing using their right hand, to me that looks awkward and a bit strange lol..Same when I see right handed people hold knife and fork..again strange to me...

Hmm maybe I should protest it, and claim that it should be illegal to be right handed.. Ban all right handed people, it's an abomination..force them all to be left handed, they are all possessed by right handed demons..Everything right handers touch goes wrong, this is why our planet is already doomed <_<

I face palm my post with my left hand lol

Living in Ireland and being left-handed?

Ouch, thats a bad combination for a kid lol.

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