redhen Posted May 12, 2013 #51 Share Posted May 12, 2013 i feel bad for the cabbages, they can warn each other but do nothing about the threat. i wonder what vegetarians think about this Well that didn't take long, only the second comment, good job. Vegetables don't have a nervous system of any kind and thus cannot feel pain. Neither can bacteria or a rock. It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit. I'm not making a personal attack, just an observation. No one is born a vegetarian. No one is born a meat eater. It's a matter of upbringing and habit, habits that can be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted May 12, 2013 Author #52 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Very interesting, fungi has a mystical background and still has now. If somehow scientists can find out what is being said or get some information, not now but in the future, do you think we could speed up Tree growth much quicker? Maybe we would never again chop down a tree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted May 12, 2013 Author #53 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Well that didn't take long, only the second comment, good job. Vegetables don't have a nervous system of any kind and thus cannot feel pain. Neither can bacteria or a rock. It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit. I'm not making a personal attack, just an observation. No one is born a vegetarian. No one is born a meat eater. It's a matter of upbringing and habit, habits that can be changed. It's very obvious from the posts I made that plants can feel a threat. Pain is nothing but a way animals are being made aware their life or health is in danger. Plants just have another system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhen Posted May 12, 2013 #54 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Pain is nothing but a way animals are being made aware their life or health is in danger. Plants just have another system. I think you are confusing awareness with pain. There are different somatic senses, from wiki; "The system reacts to diverse stimuli using different receptors: thermoreceptors, nociceptors, mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. " Pain is sensed via nociceptors. Since plants don't have nociceptors, they don't feel pain. Yes, they can have mechano, thermo or chemo sensors, but they don't involve pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted May 13, 2013 #55 Share Posted May 13, 2013 what fascinates me is .. that plants may actually be Aware. ( i've always thought so, but it's not a popular notion , among people ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted May 13, 2013 Author #56 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I think you are confusing awareness with pain. There are different somatic senses, from wiki; "The system reacts to diverse stimuli using different receptors: thermoreceptors, nociceptors, mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. " Pain is sensed via nociceptors. Since plants don't have nociceptors, they don't feel pain. Yes, they can have mechano, thermo or chemo sensors, but they don't involve pain. Plants can sense that which is harmful for them. We are animals and sense stimuli like most other animals so we cannot have the slightest idea how a plant senses something harmful. Yes, we can only know what organs, cells or tissue they sense it with, not how they "experience" it. Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhen Posted May 13, 2013 #57 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts". Pain has been the topic of much philosophical debate, and almost all agree that there is a subjective component of pain. By definition, this subjective component cannot be attributed to things that lack the mental capacity to interpret it. From Stanford philosophy encyclopedia; "Activity induced in the nociceptor and nociceptive pathways by a noxious stimulus is not pain, which is always a psychological state, even though we may well appreciate that pain most often has a proximate physical cause." p.s. the idea that plants communicate by sound, as indicated by the title of this thread, is impossible. Plants don't have an any auditory organs and thus cannot process sound. They can of course sense vibrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted May 13, 2013 Author #58 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Pain has been the topic of much philosophical debate, and almost all agree that there is a subjective component of pain. By definition, this subjective component cannot be attributed to things that lack the mental capacity to interpret it. From Stanford philosophy encyclopedia; "Activity induced in the nociceptor and nociceptive pathways by a noxious stimulus is not pain, which is always a psychological state, even though we may well appreciate that pain most often has a proximate physical cause." p.s. the idea that plants communicate by sound, as indicated by the title of this thread, is impossible. Plants don't have an any auditory organs and thus cannot process sound. They can of course sense vibrations. You might want to read the rest of this thread before you say something is "impossible". About pain, this is what I said: Plants can sense that which is harmful for them. We are animals and sense stimuli like most other animals so we cannot have the slightest idea how a plant senses something harmful. Yes, we can only know what organs, cells or tissue they sense it with, not how they "experience" it. Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted May 13, 2013 #59 Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130507060855.htm Plants 'Talk' to Plants to Help Them Grow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrooma Posted May 14, 2013 #60 Share Posted May 14, 2013 It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit. . and it's amazing how quick vegetarians are at jumping to the moral high ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhen Posted May 14, 2013 #61 Share Posted May 14, 2013 . and it's amazing how quick vegetarians are at jumping to the moral high ground. Well it's really not all that difficult. Plants don't feel pain. Plants don't suffer. That's the specific claim. My general claim goes something like this; all things being equal, a world with less pain and suffering is better than a world with more pain and suffering. Do you consider that a contentious or provocative proposition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted May 14, 2013 Author #62 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Well it's really not all that difficult. Plants don't feel pain. Plants don't suffer. That's the specific claim. My general claim goes something like this; all things being equal, a world with less pain and suffering is better than a world with more pain and suffering. Do you consider that a contentious or provocative proposition? You cannot be sure of that (see bolded). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted May 14, 2013 Author #63 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Posted in another thread, but it fits better here (it's a bit old, but ok): RESPONSE IN THE LIVING AND NON-LIVING BY JAGADIS CHUNDER BOSE, M.A.(Cantab.), D.Sc.(Lond.) PROFESSOR, PRESIDENCY COLLEGE, CALCUTTA WITH ILLUSTRATIONS LONGMANS, GREEN, AND CO. 39 PATERNOSTER ROW, LONDON NEW YORK AND BOMBAY 1902 CHAPTER I THE MECHANICAL RESPONSE OF LIVING SUBSTANCES CHAPTER II ELECTRIC RESPONSE CHAPTER III ELECTRIC RESPONSE IN PLANTS—METHOD OF NEGATIVE VARIATION CHAPTER IV ELECTRIC RESPONSE IN PLANTS—BLOCK METHOD CHAPTER V PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE EFFECTS OF SINGLE STIMULUS AND OF SUPERPOSED STIMULI CHAPTER VI PLANT RESPONSE—ON DIPHASIC VARIATION CHAPTER VII PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE RELATION BETWEEN STIMULUS AND RESPONSE CHAPTER VIII PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE INFLUENCE OF TEMPERATURE CHAPTER IX PLANT RESPONSE—EFFECT OF ANÆSTHETICS AND POISONS And lots more... http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18986/18986-h/18986-h.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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