Homer Posted October 7, 2004 #26 Share Posted October 7, 2004 No not at all. Spain are putting their own country first, much like the US do and any other country. I agree with this statement. The Spanish don’t dislike the U.S., they are just at odds with some of our policies, mainly the invasion of Iraq. Time will heal this, and to expect the Spanish government to go against the majority of the Spanish population is unrealistic. I think under the present circumstance, the Spanish government did the right thing, as they don’t want the masses to protest. I’m still a strong supporter of the Iraqi war, but each country must do what they feel is best for them. However...I still don't like the excuse "Spain was "no longer subordinated" and "kneeling" before other countries." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 7, 2004 #27 Share Posted October 7, 2004 ...are you missing the point, missy? Maybe YOU missed your own point? First...you admit that Europe, as many of the countries share borders, have a need to maintain good relationships...much as Spain is doing with France....yet you comaplain over, and find silly reasons to explain why the US isn't doing the parade? Aren't you kinda contradicting yourself? Not that...uh...we haven't come to expect that of you of course. 295474[/snapback] I'm coming from the 911 'point of view'...Spain is afraidas I said months ago when they pulled out. Afraid of the terrorists. So they will, as your brother put it, distance themselves as long as possible from the Bush camp. ...All this is a smokescreen, in my humble opinion; they are cowards. Now, Sera_ they're in real trouble.... How will they fight off Al Qaedy and sub-groups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 8, 2004 Author #28 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Wun, you have silly arguments and appear to be a baby. My God, that is such a great arguement Anyone have any statistics on what country is the worlds largest exporter of humanitarian aid? I'd guess the US... cause you have MORE than everyone else. It nothing to do with generiousity, but rather that more of us would bankrupt ourselves if you donated anywhere near as much I'm coming from the 911 'point of view'...Spain is afraidas I said months ago when they pulled out. Afraid of the terrorists. Despite that they have been dealing with Eta for decades and the US never came to their aid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted October 8, 2004 #29 Share Posted October 8, 2004 (edited) I'm coming from the 911 'point of view'...Spain is afraidas I said months ago when they pulled out. Afraid of the terrorists. So they will, as your brother put it, distance themselves as long as possible from the Bush camp. ...All this is a smokescreen, in my humble opinion; they are cowards. Now, Sera_ they're in real trouble.... How will they fight off Al Qaedy and sub-groups? Jeez... Cowards? Spain was the only othe country apart from the UK that backed the US or are you forgetting that? I have already said this ... The reason they pulled out was because a new Prime Minister, José Zapatero, was elected along with a new goverment who wanted Spain out of Iraq. It wasn't to do with them being afraid. How will they fight off Al Qaedy and sub-groups? Like any other country. Edited October 8, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted October 8, 2004 #30 Share Posted October 8, 2004 quick abridged thing on spain http://www.worldhistory.com/spain.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted October 8, 2004 #31 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Could you elaborate please.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted October 8, 2004 #32 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Just saw it and rememberd the Moors, had forgotten about that, wonder what the Islamic population of Spain is and if it really matters. Then at the end of the thing about the basque terrorists the eta... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque looked at the religion portion, wondered if that mattered. Just links to info I thought was good and related to the topic for those that may be dropping by and might not know. Nothing deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 8, 2004 #33 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Sera writes: Aren't you kinda contradicting yourself? Not that...uh...we haven't come to expect that of you of course. As, flip-flopper, John Kerry would say, Au contrare! ....I'm scratching my head on this one. Okay, I'm stumped... when did I contradict myself? Contrariwise, aren't you the 'contradictory Queen of the Zodiac,' Miss Aquarius? Isn't Aquarius the big sign of contradictive traits? Don't they like to be perverse just for the fun of it? ......Ah..Seraphina....'me thinks' you project your personality traits upon me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 8, 2004 #34 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Lottie...I haven't forgotten...that's my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted October 8, 2004 #35 Share Posted October 8, 2004 I'm sorry Babs, but are you so stumped for an intelligent reply, that you completely ignore what everyone's said to you, and instead fall back on the zodiac to try and fuel your arguement? No doubt about it, you're a republican Who cares about political issues, you can get by just making fun of trivial and meaningless parts of your opponent's background. Sad...really just sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted October 8, 2004 #36 Share Posted October 8, 2004 (edited) i agree with seraphina here...babs your not making a very good argument what so ever Edited October 8, 2004 by gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 8, 2004 #37 Share Posted October 8, 2004 You haven't answered my question, Sera. How have I contradicted myself? It's a serious question, I would like you to answer. I haven't done anything you don't do. You are sarcastic, as you have admitted, and call people names. Wow. What's a little humor?...Hey, is it true.... are you the 'Contradictory Queen?' I think I will rephrase my statement on Spain. Spain 'performed' a cowardly act. It would have been better if they hadn't fought with us at all than to pull out when they were hit. That puts the U.S. and the world in hot water as far as fighting the war on terror. You know people have attacked me and called me names and I haven't done that. Now, I start saying a little bit back and "WHOA....you guys can't take it! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted October 8, 2004 #38 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Another pretty cool link that kinda relates to this http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190..._031604,00.html Whole things good, some snippets taken out of context: With hundreds of vulnerable targets and a heavy al Qaeda and Islamicist radical presence, the hope seemed to hang heavy in Europe that sympathy with the Palestinians, and antipathy if not downright opposition to US policy in Iraq inoculated the continent from damaging Islamist terrorism. The Europeans also believed - correctly - that US success in destroying al Qaeda's bases in Afghanistan and Iraq and a very large percentage of its core leadership left the organization in a weakened condition. The 3/11 actions in Spain may have even exceeded al Qaeda's expectations for political impact not only there but also on the wider European scene. At a minimum, Europe has been psychologically damaged by how quickly and decisively al Qaeda's audacity and effectiveness buckled Spain's knees. Many European countries, like Spain, live with Islamic populations embedded with radical and al Qaeda cells, as well as ubiquitous and dense infrastructure and transportation systems that are virtually impossible to defend. What will be important in the weeks and months ahead will be European actions rather than the rhetoric of nervous politicians searching for safe political ground. One potentially inviting target, the UK, the US' strongest supporter, may well escape al Qaeda action despite a large indigenous urban Islamic population. Having tasted the bitter fruit of IRA terror, the British have maintained the continent's tightest internal security for decades and, unlike their European neighbors, characteristically take a no-nonsense approach to counterterrorist security, investigations and intelligence. It would indeed be ironic if European countries, whose cooperation and support is essential, undermined the US war on terror, which has badly crippled al Qaeda. We simply cannot afford another Spain and have to stop immediately the bleeding from Madrid 3/11. The alternative is to leave Europe open to almost certain al Qaeda attempts to buckle more knees and peel away more support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 8, 2004 #39 Share Posted October 8, 2004 That was terrific information I 'am' worried that Europe is undermining the U.S. on the war on terror. That's at the bottom of all these discussions we are having.This is what America thinks. That's why I don't want Kerry in...european thinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 8, 2004 Author #40 Share Posted October 8, 2004 That was terrific information I 'am' worried that Europe is undermining the U.S. on the war on terror. That's at the bottom of all these discussions we are having.This is what America thinks. Actualy its about what Spain thinks. Its their parade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted October 8, 2004 #41 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Spain withdrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 8, 2004 Author #42 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Thats not the topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 8, 2004 #43 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Thats not the topic 296706[/snapback] ....but it's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted October 8, 2004 #44 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Babs, I've already pointed out the contradiction you made, and don't especially feel like repeating it, let alone the obvious fact that you're continuing your typical tactic of just trying to avoid what anyone else has said to you and focus on the one point you think you might have a prayer of getting past ....but it's the point. It's not the point Babs, only in your strange little world. The point is that Spain is taking this chance to further their relationship with a neighbour, and certain people in your country can't seem to stand the fact that the US isn't the center of attention anymore. Spain arrived to help you, and aid you in your war, they contributing money and manpower in doing so, with a military force far inferior to your own or that of the UK, and against the wishes of the Spanish people; when the terrorists attacked them, it was because of the will of the people that the government changed, and the war effort was withdrawn. Whether I agree or disagree with that particular motion is irrelevant...they responded to the will of the people which, believe it or not, is one of the functions of a demoncratic government. And for doing this, you and other right wing fanatics have branded them cowards. Why SHOULD they invite you to their parade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted October 8, 2004 #45 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Why SHOULD they invite you to their parade? 296759[/snapback] Because everyone likes a parade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted October 8, 2004 #46 Share Posted October 8, 2004 lol...interestingly enough Fluffy, your reply does sum up my thoughts on the complaint....it's a friggin' parade! It sounds to me like the US is crying because it didn't get invited to the party, and doesn't like the fact that Bush has managed to make it the least popular kid on the block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted October 8, 2004 #47 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Spain arrived to help you, and aid you in your war, they contributing money and manpower in doing so, with a military force far inferior to your own or that of the UK, and against the wishes of the Spanish people; when the terrorists attacked them, it was because of the will of the people that the government changed, and the war effort was withdrawn. So Spain's Islamic population being upset at Spain attacking Islamic terrorists cowering Spain into withdrawal had nothing to do with it? Or France's Islamic tilt? Or maybe this is a sign Europe will be able to handle the situation without the US? Or maybe a sign an Islamic friendly EU will band together to expel the US? Or maybe there wasn't enough room in the parade to fit everyone? Can I pout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted October 8, 2004 #48 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Or maybe this is a sign Europe will be able to handle the situation without the US? Europe has been dealing with terrorists for decades before the US even had the vaguest idea what was going on in the middle east What on earth is with you people and this sad, self obsessed delusion that 9/11 was the first taste the western world had of terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted October 8, 2004 #49 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Well, I guess they've done a less than exemplary job or it wouldn't have happened? If they've been dealing with it for so long, and they're so smart and capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted October 8, 2004 #50 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Hey, don't blame us you got advance warnings about the guys who were on their way to hijack those planes....not our fault secret service did jack all, and your President decided to take the month off Let's not forget that, since the US decided to throw down the guantlet, terrorism has actually become a far more widespread and serious threat than it was before the US charged in with all guns blazing, shooting first and asking questions later Believe me, I really wish you HADN'T gotten involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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