How do we stop it.

[Purplos]

Perhaps parents should start being prosecuted for being bad parents.

I hate the comment that the world is much different than how it was a decade ago, whatever. I think it's a cop-out. More stress? So teach your kids and yourself how to deal with and reduce stress. More violence? Don't let your kids play GTA or whatever for 4 hours per day or watch gore *spam filter*s. More sex? Teach your kids how to respect themselves and others from the time they're a baby.

There will always be mental illness and guns or other weapons and just bad, bad people. But people have to stop blaming the government laws or school security or the media or whoever and start taking some responsibility for the world.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

That's possible, but that has to be weighed against desentizing people to it

The same argument has been made against comic books, films, gladiator fights, golf and probably cave paintings.

[White Crane Feather]

The same argument has been made against comic books, films, gladiator fights, golf and probably cave paintings.

You don't think there is difference with playing a character that shoots cops, kills hookers, takes people out with baseball bats, and runs over pedestrians to say a fairly violent story or a cage fight? I would say modern games are much more engaging. People don't get addicted to cage fights or cave paintings ... Some do books.

[White Crane Feather]

When I get home, I'm going to run a couple of statistical graphs.,let's see what we can see. I'll include gun ownership, computing power of games, gameing sales, over Time and I'll plot the incidents of school shootings. As I can get to it I'll plot certain kinds of medication sales, and diagnosis of autisticm and other types of personality disorders. Mabey even include some sort of statistic on bullying. I don't know we will see. If you want to help, find the data for me from a decently reliable source and link it here. Then critique my graphes until we are all satisfied. Positive Or negative correlation dosnt always mean actual correlation, but at least we have some data points to look at. It's been a dozen years since I used to tutor statistics and do these kind of projects, so bear with me. Mabey some of you with more technical and mathematic expertise can help.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Seeker79

[Kazahel]

All good points. By the way the last one was trained. But he also probably was on the autistic spectrum.

I know he was trained, I said that about four times. And just because he 'might' of been on the autistic spectrum doesnt mean this was foreseeable. What you typed above almost reads as saying that being on the autistic spectrum was likely the major factor.

Anyway so I did a very quick look around just then and found this. I dont know much about autism or the spectrum so I thought I'd have a quick read.

http://health.usnews...iolence-experts

[Gunn]

I don't know, Seeker79. It sounds like you got some kind of personal vandetta against video games. I've noticed a lot of bias tone in your comments on video games. Some of what you say makes logical sense, but you seem to keep honing in on video games specifically. I will say, I think it may be a small part of it, but the key word here is: small

I think the biggest part/reason of it all, has to do with the last three generations and their parenting skills. That's were it starts, how you raise and discipline your kids and that it's not just any one specific outside influential force like, guns, video games, sex, drugs, and the media.

The discipline and reward system. Something I noticed a lot of kids seemed to lack when they were raised into adults over the years, especially in the U.S., as I grew up into an adult myself. I'm one of the Gen Xers, btw. And that's were I think it all started, with a lot of Gen Xers not being properly trained through the discipline and reward system. Thus they passed on what they learned from their parents to their kids, in what they thought was discipline. I say this because, I noticed a lot kids back in the day of my youth, who always seemed to get away with a lot of crap; more than they should have.

Then again, maybe it started with some of the baby boomer's generation after WW2 and how some of them were properly disciplined. But the lack of proper discipline started with one generation at some point.

[s33ker]

Aussie kids play these games ,some have mental issues and are on meds.

When was our last school massacre? So glad I live here so I don't have

get a concealed weapons licence to feel safe from the crazie gamers and

most of all because we have gun regulations.

[White Crane Feather]

I know he was trained, I said that about four times. And just because he 'might' of been on the autistic spectrum doesnt mean this was foreseeable. What you typed above almost reads as saying that being on the autistic spectrum was likely the major factor.

Anyway so I did a very quick look around just then and found this. I dont know much about autism or the spectrum so I thought I'd have a quick read.

http://health.usnews...iolence-experts

Kaz... I know your chip gets the better of you with me, but I work with spectrum kids all the time. I have also done extensive research to better serve them. The situation is so much more dynamic than most people understand.

[White Crane Feather]

I don't know, Seeker79. It sounds like you got some kind of personal vandetta against video games. I've noticed a lot of bias tone in your comments on video games. Some of what you say makes logical sense, but you seem to keep honing in on video games specifically. I will say, I think it may be a small part of it, but the key word here is: small

I think the biggest part/reason of it all, has to do with the last three generations and their parenting skills. That's were it starts, how you raise and discipline your kids and that it's not just any one specific outside influential force like, guns, video games, sex, drugs, and the media.

The discipline and reward system. Something I noticed a lot of kids seemed to lack when they were raised into adults over the years, especially in the U.S., as I grew up into an adult myself. I'm one of the Gen Xers, btw. And that's were I think it all started, with a lot of Gen Xers not being properly trained through the discipline and reward system. Thus they passed on what they learned from their parents to their kids, in what they thought was discipline. I say this because, I noticed a lot kids back in the day of my youth, who always seemed to get away with a lot of crap; more than they should have.

Then again, maybe it started with some of the baby boomer's generation after WW2 and how some of them were properly disciplined. But the lack of proper discipline started with one generation at some point.

I'm sorry my friend you are right. I do have a bias. But it's from pure observation. I don't like the extreme violence in some of these games and I witness first hand the effect on kids lives. I do not think it's the games entirely but more of a reflection of what economies tend to value and why. It goes very deep, and I do have a degree in economics and work first hand with many many children on the frontlines so to speak. But... Yes it is an opinion until a scientific correlation is established.

Parenting is a factor. But still I think it's deeper than we think. I think Certain things that good normal parents do might be terrible mistakes. I do not buy into the old fashion Christian parenting..,, everything is new in our modern world, the effects of this newness is difficult to ascertain. Change in everything is so fast, getting a bead on how it effects our children is nearly impossible..... But yes.. I'm no Christian zealot.... But when I see the insane violence that I know most of our 12 year old population has access to, I have to question it profusely especially being a teacher of teens over the last 15 years and watching the gradual increase of obsession with it first hand. It dosnt make any sense to me. Other than money makeing. Parenting is very rarely a factor in extreme violence. It's usually a factor in more mundane issues. Case in point the latest incidence. Every indication is that she was doing the best she could, but yet something else was the primary influence. It did not surprise me a bit that this horrid situation was carried out by Somone who was probably autistic who used to hold LAN parties. Really.... once I I heard all of that it made perfect sense to me. It's still senseless, but I know people well I make my living off of it.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Seeker79

[Kazahel]

Kaz... I know your chip gets the better of you with me, but I work with spectrum kids all the time. I have also done extensive research to better serve them. The situation is so much more dynamic than most people understand.

Dont make up nonsense by attempting to make out I have a chip. If anyone else had posted this I would say the same thing.

Anyway was my link not valid?

[White Crane Feather]

Aussie kids play these games ,some have mental issues and are on meds.

When was our last school massacre? So glad I live here so I don't have

get a concealed weapons licence to feel safe from the crazie gamers and

most of all because we have gun regulations.

You are just behind the curve don't worry... I think it's comeing your way. The US tends to export its chaos.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Seeker79

[xYlvax]

You really can't control anything. I find the recent CT shootings a tragedy but you really can't stop it. Even if this country took away the 2nd Amendment, I'd be willing to bet you that it wouldn't change, just get worse. Not alot of people I know will give up their guns without a fight to the death first. Nothing will stop a person from killing innocents but a responsible person with a gun. No one can ever tell what's going on in some peoples' brains, so it will always be an act of random spontaneous crime...or so it seems. With the last shooting, I can genuinely tell that he was completely dead inside for some reason, to want to kill innocents like that.

[White Crane Feather]

Dont make up nonsense by attempting to make out I have a chip. If anyone else had posted this I would say the same thing.

Anyway was my link not valid?

Its not nonsense. If you want I'll take up your chip with me in private. I'll make a damn good case that not even you can dodge. The link wasn't valid. spectrum kids are not violent probably less so than the average population, but you have to know the intrasies of their condition to understand how they they can be.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Seeker79

[Kazahel]

Its not nonsense. If you want I'll take up your chip with me in private. I'll make a damn good case that not even you can dodge. The link wasn't valid. spectrum kids are not violent probably less so than the average population, but you have to know the intrasies of their condition to understand how they they can be.

It is nonsense. You think I have a chip because I question your 'truths'. ? If anyone else did that they'd be called a skeptic.

And with this kid you keep making assumptions about him and speaking as if they are truths. And thats a fact.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Kazahel

[White Crane Feather]

It is nonsense. You think I have a chip because I question your 'truths'. ? If anyone else did that they'd be called a skeptic.

And with this kid you keep making assumptions about him and speaking as if they are truths. And thats a fact.

I think you have a chip because you fixate on my posts when I have said nothing to you. (honestly i think it goes a ways back) You mistake educated guess and non passive voice for proclamations of absolute truth. I was trained to write that way. Some people are put off by it.., so be it. Seriously.. Your scrutanty of every word I say from the "suppose" incident to my arguments here make me wonder.

[s33ker]

seeker79, it's so very true, USA does spread it's caos everywhere.

[The Id3al Experience]

That's possible, but that has to be weighed against desentizing people to it, and possibly creating people to have violent tendencies. Studies like that are higly suspect. Where did they find people with violent tendencies? Obviously if they are violent , they are probably not allowed to act it out by some kind of restraint, so yes... The game is going to be a release. It's hard to tell without knowing the details. But I have got to say, I deplore allowing impressionable teenagers to play that crap.

Its the parents too Seeker, I mean most games are rated. I love playing them games. Iv never killed anyone.

Im online playing a shoot them up game, and I have kids that are no older than 10 yrs playing screaming down the mic saying all sorts of languages me in my grown years wouldnt say....

Were are the parents? Who buy these R rated games that you need ID for?

To be honest taking away games and allowing guns? I think thats backwards. IMO.

You ever heard the saying: Guns don't kill people, people kill people?

My proposal would be - Huge gun control and your right, the media need to shut up -- but whats new. haha

Thanks Seeker

Kind Regards,

Me,

[Kazahel]

Its the parents too Seeker, I mean most games are rated. I love playing them games. Iv never killed anyone.

Im online playing a shoot them up game, and I have kids that are no older than 10 yrs playing screaming down the mic saying all sorts of languages me in my grown years wouldnt say....

Were are the parents? Who buy these R rated games that you need ID for?

I see you're in New Zealand. Do you guys actually have R rated games over there? In Australia we dont have the R rated game classification yet I dont think. I think they were bringing it in but I'm not sure when. Anyway so our games the highest ratings I think for now are MA15+. Which means..

"MA15+ (Mature accompanied for those under 15) – Contains material that is considered unsuitable for exhibition by persons under the age of 15. Persons under 15 may only legally purchase, rent, exhibit or view MA15+ rated content under the supervision of an adult guardian"

So I'm online quite a lot and have been in the gaming community for many years. And I often hear people abusing the younger players simply for speaking. If a younger sounding kid speaks over the mic they are usually told to "shut up ********* stupid little kid, your voice is too annoying!" or something along those lines. They are then questioned and abused on why they are playing and told they should not be allowed to. They say the game is for 15+ without understanding about the supervision line. So for all they know they have a dad like me watching them...

So in the games I've been playing(the more popular ones) the younger kids generally do nothing wrong and are actually quite polite, when they speak its usually simple things like "where are you?". They are not really at that age to be a smartass(to think they are big tough guys). It's the older kids/teenagers (guessing 15-20yrs)that are the problem in regards to screaming down the mics with all sorts of language and being abusive. The older kids are the role models which the younger kids want to be one day... So if you hear a younger player being abusive and screaming down the mic they are basically trying to act like the teenagers(they want to be 'cool' like the older kids.

So if you actually want to stop any younger kids from mouthing off you gotta lead by example.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Kazahel

[spartan max2]

I disagree with number 3 big time.

I play video games all the time. My freinds do too. None of us have violent tendices. None of us want to go shoot a school up. No study shows that it makes people want to.

Edited December 18, 2012 by spartan max2

[sutemi]

How do we stop it? Getting rid of the guns is obviously out of the question for some reason or other I suppose. Perhaps you could say what is your reason for wanting to keep a device that’s only purpose is to kill? I say this not to get at you but to try to expand the debate beyond video games although I do agree there is far too much glorification of violence in modern societies. Is the bigger picture more about the fractured societies we live in? Also Seeker ,no 1 in your list, “We identify autistic spectrum, sensitive, and vulnerable kids early on and give them incredible support against bullying and self-esteem issues”. Who will pay for this? The USA hates taxation, are you suggesting higher taxation to combat the problems in society?

“If the Climate was a bank we would have already fixed it” Hugo Chavez

Edited December 18, 2012 by sutemi

[White Crane Feather]

How do we stop it? Getting rid of the guns is obviously out of the question for some reason or other I suppose. Perhaps you could say what is your reason for wanting to keep a device that’s only purpose is to kill? I say this not to get at you but to try to expand the debate beyond video games although I do agree there is far too much glorification of violence in modern societies. Is the bigger picture more about the fractured societies we live in? Also Seeker ,no 1 in your list, “We identify autistic spectrum, sensitive, and vulnerable kids early on and give them incredible support against bullying and self-esteem issues”. Who will pay for this? The USA hates taxation, are you suggesting higher taxation to combat the problems in society?

“If the Climate was a bank we would have already fixed it” Hugo Chavez

Your kidding right. We are taxed just as much as any socialist nation. Our government is just better at telling us it's not a tax.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in this. Country. They are not going anywhere. It goes all the back to the the very founding of the union. the trick is to make to make it very difficult but not banned. Trust me that is a huge concession on my part.

Besides why will not anyone address the fact that there are other countries with libral access to guns, but it dosnt happen like it does here. There is another part of the puzzle.

Read this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9752141/Connecticut-school-massacre-Adam-Lanza-spent-hours-playing-Call-Of-Duty.html

Edited December 18, 2012 by Seeker79

[AsteroidX]

Banning violent video games would actually be a violation of the First Amendment. One of the reason why we have so much passion in the 2nd Amendment is that without it the First Amendment has no power

Yes I said we can say what we want and well back it up with our guns if necessary. But that is oversimplifying a more complex rationale for the above statement.

I suppose what the OP asked for was solutions and not argument however. Unfortunately time is gonna tell at this point in time. If you think WE THE PEOPLE have any say in whats going to happen next your mistaken. Its like a game of chess and atm its the Governments move. Where will they choose to take us as a Nation...Higher Taxes, Gun Bans (hopefully confiscation is off the table, LEO's that are overarmed compared to the population constitutes a foreign army IMO as they are under the control of Government be it State or Federal and no longer beholden to the people. Thes are very slippery slopes that our Forfathers spelled out very eloquently. Luckily the as well gave the people a recourse to remedy the situation by several means.

Edited December 18, 2012 by AsteroidX

[White Crane Feather]

Banning violent video games would actually be a violation of the First Amendment. One of the reason why we have so much passion in the 2nd Amendment is that without it the First Amendment has no power

Yes I said we can say what we want and well back it up with our guns if necessary. But that is oversimplifying a more complex rationale for the above statement.

I suppose what the OP asked for was solutions and not argument however. Unfortunately time is gonna tell at this point in time. If you think WE THE PEOPLE have any say in whats going to happen next your mistaken. Its like a game of chess and atm its the Governments move. Where will they choose to take us as a Nation...Higher Taxes, Gun Bans (hopefully confiscation is off the table, LEO's that are overarmed compared to the population constitutes a foreign army IMO as they are under the control of Government be it State or Federal and no longer beholden to the people. Thes are very slippery slopes that our Forfathers spelled out very eloquently. Luckily the as well gave the people a recourse to remedy the situation by several means.

Is a video game really an expressed piece of speech, or Is it a product consumed? After all we ban all sorts of products. I know games tell stories, but really they are a produced and designed to create endorphins. Drugs are also produced and even designed to do this. If we made pornographic video games, and sat our children in from of them, would not the government intervene? I'm not really sure what's worse. Beating a hooker up with a baseball bat or breast monsters from Jupiter. ( heard that title on "maried with children" years ago). If I gave my 12 year old porn to entertain himself would I not be investigated? ( granted at that age they can probably find it for themselves).

The more I think about it looking back over last twenty years. I think there is a hidden danger here. Which is funny, I have had this conversation with a few people, and most can see what I'm talking about, but on the forums it's nearly a unanimous shoot down. Practically everyone typing away at their computers is at least in partial a gamer. Naturally there is an over representation.

[spartan max2]

Is a video game really an expressed piece of speech, or Is it a product consumed? After all we ban all sorts of products. I know games tell stories, but really they are a produced and designed to create endorphins. Drugs are also produced and even designed to do this. If we made pornographic video games, and sat our children in from of them, would not the government intervene? I'm not really sure what's worse. Beating a hooker up with a baseball bat or breast monsters from Jupiter. ( heard that title on "maried with children" years ago). If I gave my 12 year old porn to entertain himself would I not be investigated? ( granted at that age they can probably find it for themselves).

The more I think about it looking back over last twenty years. I think there is a hidden danger here. Which is funny, I have had this conversation with a few people, and most can see what I'm talking about, but on the forums it's nearly a unanimous shoot down. Practically everyone typing away at their computers is at least in partial a gamer. Naturally there is an over representation.

Seeker can i ask you how much experience have you had with playing video games? and playing with your freinds online?

Im 18 I have been raised in this video game generation.If you were raised in this generation then you would understand how dumb it sounds everytime the older generation attacks video games.

Nonething can fully be understood from the outside looking in.

[me-wonders]

The murder of those children has made the aggressive style of communication practiced by young males, and females trying to prove themselves equals, is now more intolerable to me than before. Again and again, we here of a young person victimized at school or on the internet, who commits suicide. I have mentioned this aggressive behavior is equal to NAZI Germany and this raised a moderators concern. The concern was not about the aggressive, hostile and offensive behavior, but was about me saying this equal to NAZI consciousness. The book Lord of Flies was based on what happened in Germany, and I think replacing our liberal education, with the German model of education for technology, put us on the same path Germany followed.

Aggressive and insulting male talk tends to be different from female rules in conversation. Males are playing one up man ship and this can be great fun and even help develop strong leadership, but there is also the possibility of people being offended and things turning nasty. This seems to have become a serious social problem. When I say this is like NAZI Germany I wish the concern were a social one, and not concern about me for seeing this possibility as a ramification of the change in education, and Women's Liberation that did not liberate women to be feminine, but made it taboo to be feminine and took away our power to say, "that is not an acceptable way to talk to me".

I am just throwing these considerations out there, and announcing the recent rash of slayings in a theater, mall, and school, has pushed me to asserting my objection to offensive post. Just as the Christian right supporting Bush after he invaded Iraq, ended my resolve to not discuss religion, because that "is not polite". I am seriously questioning our social rules and who makes them. Maybe boys will boys, but maybe a public forum should be concerned about the importance of good manners? Maybe there is some social value to being feminine, to our culture and civilization?