Secret Caves under the Pyramids

[robinrenee]

I don't think aliens had anything to do with building the pyramids. (No, I don't believe any ET's have visited earth.)

I believe the civilization living in Egypt 12,900 years ago had the technology and expertise to build the pyramids.

Then something catastrophic happened, and their civilization was wiped out. Yes, I think the pyramids and sphinx are much older than main stream historians say. I believe they are at least 12,900 years and perhaps older... 20,000 years and were built during the last ice age.

This article says that something catastrophic happened 12,000 years ago. http://www.scientifi...2900-years-ago/

When I look at pictures of the pyramids on the Giza plateau, I can imagine a gigantic tsunami washing over the pyramids.

(I tried to post images of the 2 pyramids, but it didn't work...or I don't know how to do it.... either way... If your curious, I guess you'll have to look them up.)

The limestone casing of the Khufu pyramid is only left on the top of the pyramid.

The Bent pyramid has all the limestone casings washed off the corners.

Edited May 12, 2015 by robinrenee

[Hanslune]

I don't think aliens had anything to do with building the pyramids. (No, I don't believe any ET's have visited earth.)

I believe the civilization living in Egypt 12,900 years ago had the technology and expertise to build the pyramids.

Then something catastrophic happened, and their civilization was wiped out. Yes, I think the pyramids and sphinx are much older than main stream historians say. I believe they are at least 12,900 years and perhaps older... 20,000 years and were built during the last ice age.

This article says that something catastrophic happened 12,000 years ago. http://www.scientifi...2900-years-ago/

When I look at pictures of the pyramids on the Giza plateau, I can imagine a gigantic tsunami washing over the pyramids.

(I tried to post images of the 2 pyramids, but it didn't work...or I don't know how to do it.... either way... If your curious, I guess you'll have to look them up.)

The limestone casing of the Khufu pyramid is only left on the top of the pyramid.

The Bent pyramid has all the limestone casings washed off the corners.

There are records of when and why the outer cladding was removed and used to construct building in Cairo. There were people and cultures in the Nile valley at the times you speak up but they were not the "ancient Egyptians" they were people who did not yet built in stone. An-Nasir Nasir-ad-Din al-Hasan used the polished stones from the Great Pyramids in building mosques in Cairo, some of which are still standing with these stones still intact.

[jeem]

"We don't know" doesn't mean "therefore ALIENS!".

You should know better.

I know you.You are Girigio

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I know you.You are Girigio

Assanoughts.

[back to earth]

I don't think aliens had anything to do with building the pyramids. (No, I don't believe any ET's have visited earth.)

I believe the civilization living in Egypt 12,900 years ago had the technology and expertise to build the pyramids.

Then something catastrophic happened, and their civilization was wiped out. Yes, I think the pyramids and sphinx are much older than main stream historians say. I believe they are at least 12,900 years and perhaps older... 20,000 years and were built during the last ice age.

This article says that something catastrophic happened 12,000 years ago. http://www.scientifi...2900-years-ago/

When I look at pictures of the pyramids on the Giza plateau, I can imagine a gigantic tsunami washing over the pyramids.

(I tried to post images of the 2 pyramids, but it didn't work...or I don't know how to do it.... either way... If your curious, I guess you'll have to look them up.)

The limestone casing of the Khufu pyramid is only left on the top of the pyramid.

The Bent pyramid has all the limestone casings washed off the corners.

Its fine if you want to believe that ... and imagine that ( I often wonder what a tsunami would be like myself, and imagine one coming up the valley I live in.

But this ; " The Bent pyramid has all the limestone casings washed off the corners. " is written as a statement of fact ... but it is based on belief and imaginings.

It does not appear that was the cause of the casing blocks removal at all .

[Swede]

I don't think aliens had anything to do with building the pyramids. (No, I don't believe any ET's have visited earth.)

I believe the civilization living in Egypt 12,900 years ago had the technology and expertise to build the pyramids.

Then something catastrophic happened, and their civilization was wiped out. Yes, I think the pyramids and sphinx are much older than main stream historians say. I believe they are at least 12,900 years and perhaps older... 20,000 years and were built during the last ice age.

This article says that something catastrophic happened 12,000 years ago. http://www.scientifi...2900-years-ago/

When I look at pictures of the pyramids on the Giza plateau, I can imagine a gigantic tsunami washing over the pyramids.

(I tried to post images of the 2 pyramids, but it didn't work...or I don't know how to do it.... either way... If your curious, I guess you'll have to look them up.)

The limestone casing of the Khufu pyramid is only left on the top of the pyramid.

The Bent pyramid has all the limestone casings washed off the corners.

It should be again noted that there are no indications of the presence of a culture/civilization in the Nile valley circa 12900 BP with the technical resource base/population base/sophisticated hierarchal organization that would be necessary for the monumental structures of the Giza Plateau. In addition, these structures, and many other Old Kingdom structures, have been subject to radiocarbon dating (Bonani, et al, 1995). The results of these datings confirm that, for example, G1 was constructed circa 4600 BP. While this date is slightly earlier (~100 yrs) than the previous conventional dating, it is well within the realm of the understandings regarding the activities of the Old Kingdom.

In regards to your reference: Your source material is quite outdated (2009) in regards to the specific topic. What has become known as the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (YDIH) is the subject of ongoing investigation and controversy. At the present moment the YDIH has not yet been confirmed.

Edit: Phrasing/citation/detail.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Swede

[robinrenee]

There are records of when and why the outer cladding was removed and used to construct building in Cairo. There were people and cultures in the Nile valley at the times you speak up but they were not the "ancient Egyptians" they were people who did not yet built in stone. An-Nasir Nasir-ad-Din al-Hasan used the polished stones from the Great Pyramids in building mosques in Cairo, some of which are still standing with these stones still intact.

I know they used the stones for buildings in Cairo, but did they climb the pyramids and take them down... or did they use stones that were scattered after the 12,900 B.C. catastrophe?

The only traces we have from the last ice age cultures are their stone works, some pottery, some stone tools... Clovis arrowheads.... After the catastrophe did civilizations devolve? Between the catastrophe and 3500 B.C., all cultures were hunter gatherers?... with the huge exception of Gobekli Tepi which is 11,000 years old. I don't think those carvings were made by hunter gatherers. They are very sophisticated.

Turkey is not that far from Egypt. Gobekli Tepe is 8,000 years older than the pyramid building pharaohs. When Turkey was carving ornate temples, Egypt was farming? Then suddenly they start to build pyramids? It just doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing?

[robinrenee]

Its fine if you want to believe that ... and imagine that ( I often wonder what a tsunami would be like myself, and imagine one coming up the valley I live in.

But this ; " The Bent pyramid has all the limestone casings washed off the corners. " is written as a statement of fact ... but it is based on belief and imaginings.

It does not appear that was the cause of the casing blocks removal at all .

You're correct. The casing blocks have been removed. My belief is that they were washed off. Why do you say it does not appear that was the cause of the block's removal?

Edited May 13, 2015 by robinrenee

[Hanslune]

Howdy Robinrenee

I know they used the stones for buildings in Cairo, but did they climb the pyramids and take them down... or did they use stones that were scattered after the 12,900 B.C. catastrophe?

There was an earthquake that damaged the pyramids and the fellow I mentioned above is noted for taking down the majority of the cladding; classical writers didn't note that the pyramids had lost their cladding

The only traces we have from the last ice age cultures are their stone works, some pottery, some stone tools... Clovis arrowheads.... After the catastrophe did civilizations devolve? Between the catastrophe and 3500 B.C., all cultures were hunter gatherers?... with the huge exception of Gobekli Tepi which is 11,000 years old. I don't think those carvings were made by hunter gatherers. They are very sophisticated.

Sorry no sign of any 'advanced' culture but lots of other ones existed in that period.

Here are a list of archaeological sites by age and continent, you may find Catalhuyuck of interest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_archaeological_sites_by_continent_and_age

Hunter-gatherers seemed to have created several progressive cultures prior to the advent of full blown agriculture

Turkey is not that far from Egypt. Gobekli Tepe is 8,000 years older than the pyramid building pharaohs. When Turkey was carving ornate temples, Egypt was farming? Then suddenly they start to build pyramids? It just doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing?

The AE didn't start with pyramids they started with mudbrick for hundreds of years then moved to one story mastabas then moved on to stone.

[robinrenee]

Howdy Robinrenee

Howdy, 'Hanslune'

There was an earthquake that damaged the pyramids and the fellow I mentioned above is noted for taking down the majority of the cladding; classical writers didn't note that the pyramids had lost their cladding

That must have been one heck of an earthquake! And not mentioning the missing cladding seems to be quite the oversight. Shame on them.

Sorry no sign of any 'advanced' culture but lots of other ones existed in that period.

Here are a list of archaeological sites by age and continent, you may find Catalhuyuck of interest

http://en.wikipedia....ntinent_and_age

Hunter-gatherers seemed to have created several progressive cultures prior to the advent of full blown agriculture

Thank you for the link... and yes, I did enjoy reading about Catalhuyuck. Wikipedia did a good job of describing their daily lives.

The AE didn't start with pyramids they started with mudbrick for hundreds of years then moved to one story mastabas then moved on to stone.

I can still "imagine" that the mudbrick and mastabas were their attempts at copying the pyramids that they had grown up around. I think that they didn't know where they came from, but they wanted to be able to build the same.

[kmt_sesh]

I know they used the stones for buildings in Cairo, but did they climb the pyramids and take them down... or did they use stones that were scattered after the 12,900 B.C. catastrophe?

The only traces we have from the last ice age cultures are their stone works, some pottery, some stone tools... Clovis arrowheads.... After the catastrophe did civilizations devolve? Between the catastrophe and 3500 B.C., all cultures were hunter gatherers?... with the huge exception of Gobekli Tepi which is 11,000 years old. I don't think those carvings were made by hunter gatherers. They are very sophisticated.

Turkey is not that far from Egypt. Gobekli Tepe is 8,000 years older than the pyramid building pharaohs. When Turkey was carving ornate temples, Egypt was farming? Then suddenly they start to build pyramids? It just doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing?

You're correct. The casing blocks have been removed. My belief is that they were washed off. Why do you say it does not appear that was the cause of the block's removal?

Greetings, robinrenee. I just wanted to weigh in on this. I'm not sure if you caught Swede's earlier post in reply to yours, but it contains critical information. And trust me, you can rely on Swede's contributions. He brought up the carbon dating of the pyramids, which has established that most of these monuments, the Great Pyramid included, are probably no more than about a century older than conventionally thought. You can read the report in the following link, which is a free PDF of the radiocarbon analyses (Lehner et al 2001):

Radiocarbon Dates of Old and Middle Kingdom Monuments in Egypt

Pay particular attention to the calibrated dates (e.g., I believe page 19 of the PDF for the Great Pyramid [page 1315 of the publication]). In summary, there is no scientific evidence to support an idea that the Great Pyramid or other Egyptian monuments are thousands of years older than conventionally thought.

Although field work and research continue into predynastic periods in the Nile Valley, it is now solidly understood that the Egyptian state or kingdom formed around 3100 BCE. It was only subsequent to that time period that a state existed with the potential and capabilities to erect monuments like pyramids. While people certainly lived in the Nile Valley for tens of thousands of years prior to the time of state formation, there is simply zero evidence for a civilization or society from deep in prehistory that was sophisticated enough to erect pyramids and similar monuments.

In point of fact, after the various tribal groups were unified into a kingdom in 3100 BCE, roughly another 500 years passed before the first pyramid was built (Step Pyramid of Saqqara). This did not happen over night, by any means.

To your other point, most Egyptian pyramids were built between Abu Rawash and the Fayoum. This includes Giza. These areas are very far from the Mediterranean, and haven't been close to any massive body of water since long before human beings existed. That said, tsunamis could never have reached any of these pyramids. Although the Nile certainly flooded every year, it of course could never have flooded with such force to have caused the casing stones to be "washed away." And a lot of these pyramids (Giza included) are at fairly high elevations.

Consider the force it would've taken for water to strip away the casing stones. The Giza pyramid stones weigh on average around 6,000 pounds each. Had water actually swept away the outer blocks, it is more than likely that a lot of the rest of the structures would've been obliterated, too. And yet the Dynasty 4 monoliths are still in good shape. This says nothing of the hundreds of mastabas and other burials surrounding the pyramids. They certainly would've been destroyed, and yet they're still there.

[kmt_sesh]

I should also add a critical point of my own, as often as I've mentioned it at UM. The relieving chambers above the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid contain all sorts of ancient workmen's graffiti which specifically mention the name of Khufu in several of its known forms. And these chambers were sealed for 4,500 years, until Howard Vyse blasted his way into them in 1837.

The graffiti proves beyond a doubt that the Great Pyramid was built for King Khufu. We know historically that Khufu reigned in Dynasty 4. Carbon dating and other analyses prove the Great Pyramid and its neighbors were erected in the mid-third millennium BCE.

[robinrenee]

It should be again noted that there are no indications of the presence of a culture/civilization in the Nile valley circa 12900 BP with the technical resource base/population base/sophisticated hierarchal organization that would be necessary for the monumental structures of the Giza Plateau.

that we know of....

In addition, these structures, and many other Old Kingdom structures, have been subject to radiocarbon dating (Bonani, et al, 1995). The results of these datings confirm that, for example, G1 was constructed circa 4600 BP. While this date is slightly earlier (~100 yrs) than the previous conventional dating, it is well within the realm of the understandings regarding the activities of the Old Kingdom.

Just curious... what organic material did they use for their radiocarbon dating?

In regards to your reference: Your source material is quite outdated (2009) in regards to the specific topic. What has become known as the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (YDIH) is the subject of ongoing investigation and controversy. At the present moment the YDIH has not yet been confirmed.

I checked out the YDIH on wikipedia. (Yeah, I have my lazy moments. ) Remember this is a hypothesis. While reading their criticism, I had to chuckle... Paleoindians started wildfires that caused the "black mat." And they state that "the source of iridium is subject to differing interpretations"... (I doubt that.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis

Sounds as if they're now going to have to change the Alvares Hypothesis concerning the extinction of dinosaurs 66 million years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium

Edit: Phrasing/citation/detail.

[robinrenee]

Greetings, robinrenee. I just wanted to weigh in on this. I'm not sure if you caught Swede's earlier post in reply to yours, but it contains critical information. And trust me, you can rely on Swede's contributions. He brought up the carbon dating of the pyramids, which has established that most of these monuments, the Great Pyramid included, are probably no more than about a century older than conventionally thought. You can read the report in the following link, which is a free PDF of the radiocarbon analyses (Lehner et al 2001):

Radiocarbon Dates of Old and Middle Kingdom Monuments in Egypt

Pay particular attention to the calibrated dates (e.g., I believe page 19 of the PDF for the Great Pyramid [page 1315 of the publication]). In summary, there is no scientific evidence to support an idea that the Great Pyramid or other Egyptian monuments are thousands of years older than conventionally thought.

Greetings kmt_sesh, your knowledge of ancient Egypt is impressive. And thank you for the radiocarbon source material. I feel satisfied with the Old Kingdom datings. They used things like straw in the bricks. However, when it came to the structures that I feel are so much older, they used charcoal. It seems to me that charcoal could have accumulated from any bonfires in the cavernous structures at anytime during their history.

Although field work and research continue into predynastic periods in the Nile Valley, it is now solidly understood that the Egyptian state or kingdom formed around 3100 BCE. It was only subsequent to that time period that a state existed with the potential and capabilities to erect monuments like pyramids. While people certainly lived in the Nile Valley for tens of thousands of years prior to the time of state formation, there is simply zero evidence for a civilization or society from deep in prehistory that was sophisticated enough to erect pyramids and similar monuments.

I'm aware that there is zero evidence. But I can't help speculating. I've always questioned authority if it doesn't make sense to me. It's gotten me in trouble many times, but I've surely learned a lot more than if I had kept quiet.

In point of fact, after the various tribal groups were unified into a kingdom in 3100 BCE, roughly another 500 years passed before the first pyramid was built (Step Pyramid of Saqqara). This did not happen over night, by any means.

To your other point, most Egyptian pyramids were built between Abu Rawash and the Fayoum. This includes Giza. These areas are very far from the Mediterranean, and haven't been close to any massive body of water since long before human beings existed. That said, tsunamis could never have reached any of these pyramids. Although the Nile certainly flooded every year, it of course could never have flooded with such force to have caused the casing stones to be "washed away." And a lot of these pyramids (Giza included) are at fairly high elevations.

There is a relatively new field called Catastrophic Geology. It has grown out of the Electric Universe Theory. I still have a lot of questions, but the new hypotheses do make for some game changing conclusions.

Consider the force it would've taken for water to strip away the casing stones. The Giza pyramid stones weigh on average around 6,000 pounds each. Had water actually swept away the outer blocks, it is more than likely that a lot of the rest of the structures would've been obliterated, too. And yet the Dynasty 4 monoliths are still in good shape. This says nothing of the hundreds of mastabas and other burials surrounding the pyramids. They certainly would've been destroyed, and yet they're still there.

I believe that the Old Kingdom structures carbon dated to around 3000 BCE had not been built when my alleged great catastrophe struck. I have rudimentary knowledge of the Giza Plateau, but I believe the Great pyramid and the Bent pyramid were built to withstand... and they did. Something happened at the end of the last Ice age, and I believe the Great Pyramid and a few others on the Giza Plateau were the only structures on earth that survived it.

Please don't be offended. I really do appreciate your scholarship. Maybe just think of me as a doddering old lady and humor my flights of fancy.... and tell them to do another carbon dating on the Great Pyramid with something other than charcoal.... something organic that was built into the structure... you know?

Edited to add a smiley face...

Edited May 13, 2015 by robinrenee

[robinrenee]

I should also add a critical point of my own, as often as I've mentioned it at UM. The relieving chambers above the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid contain all sorts of ancient workmen's graffiti which specifically mention the name of Khufu in several of its known forms. And these chambers were sealed for 4,500 years, until Howard Vyse blasted his way into them in 1837.

The graffiti proves beyond a doubt that the Great Pyramid was built for King Khufu. We know historically that Khufu reigned in Dynasty 4. Carbon dating and other analyses prove the Great Pyramid and its neighbors were erected in the mid-third millennium BCE.

The workman's graffiti is more convincing to me than the carbon dating of charcoal in the Great Pyramid.

Edited May 13, 2015 by robinrenee

[stereologist]

One of the things you mention is the Electric Universe theory. The theory posits that the universe is shaped by the electromagnetic force rather than gravity. The theory doesn't work for our solar system let alone the universe. When I go to a link such as the following, I see a list of peer reviewed papers discussing the role of electrically charged matter. The papers do not describe the evolution of the universe, but relatively small amounts of matter. Look at the list of papers for the solar system. Nothing in there concerns the structure of the solar system. It is all about electrical currents within the sun or within the atmosphere. What is quite interesting about the website is that it does not offer a theory. I could not find a theory there. I see a statement that electricity is important, but no theory. It would be like having the matter theory of the universe and pointing out that galaxies are made of matter.

http://www.electricuniverse.info/Peer_reviewed_papers

There are many other sits like that one which do not offer a theory but label the content as such.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Electric_Universe

The "Electric Universe" (EU) is an umbrella term that covers various pseudo-scientific cosmological ideas built around the claim that the formation and existence of various features of the universe can be better explained by electromagnetism than by gravity. The exact claims are diverse and vary from crank to crank author to author.

The notion of catastrophic or sudden events comes from places like the Bible. In the Bible there are events like the flood story. Eventually, Hutton came up with the idea that the forces that shaped the Earth in the past are still observable today. Wind, ice, and water have shaped the world we live in. It just took a lot of time. Later on there was a realization that there just might have been some large catastrophic events. The idea of impacts from space is a catastrophic event. The electric universe folks did not invent this idea. They might have borrowed something or made something up.

Maybe you rain to a site such as this:

http://www.planetamnesia.com/catastrophic-geology/

It has to resort to all of the dodgy ideas that creationists are famous for. It has to claim that dating methods do not work. It has to claim that scientists are purposely overlooking evidence. It has to claim that scientists are in some sort of clique that avoids changes to a particular line of thinking. They claim that industry drives their motivation. They make up things that never happened. In this case it is a nearby pass by another planet causing electrical discharges between the planets.

It is the same old baloney spouted by all sorts of dubious frauds that push fake cancer cures on people such as magnetic bracelets, or 2012 doom porn sellers, or bigfoot in the freezer sellers, or fake alien photo sellers, or water has memory sellers, etc.

[Kenemet]

that we know of....

For there to have been an advanced civilization in 12500BP, there would have had to be earlier slightly less advanced civilizations for it to emerge from. And had those been around, there would have been still earlier and earlier groups and cultures and so forth who all left traces on the landscape. No primitive tribe wakes up in the morning and decides for no reason to suddenly open up a quarry and start making stone buildings or even pyramids.

And we don't see any traces of pre-pre civilizations (the megaliths are younger than the pyramids, for the most part) and we dont' see any traces of things they'd need (farming changes the land, quarries are needed for rocks, tools are needed for shaping things, fire technology is needed for pottery and metalworking, etc.)

Just curious... what organic material did they use for their radiocarbon dating?

burned wood can be found in the mortar (that's how they made the mortar.)

I checked out the YDIH on wikipedia. (Yeah, I have my lazy moments. ) Remember this is a hypothesis. While reading their criticism, I had to chuckle... Paleoindians started wildfires that caused the "black mat." And they state that "the source of iridium is subject to differing interpretations"... (I doubt that.) http://en.wikipedia....pact_hypothesis

Sounds as if they're now going to have to change the Alvares Hypothesis concerning the extinction of dinosaurs 66 million years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium

Actually, it's now known that dinosaurs seem to be extinct before the Chixhulub event. There are no dinosaur fossils in the rock layers immediately before, associated with, or immediately after the metor impact. There were other signs that they were in trouble -- a reduction in species numbers, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Kenemet]

I believe that the Old Kingdom structures carbon dated to around 3000 BCE had not been built when my alleged great catastrophe struck. I have rudimentary knowledge of the Giza Plateau, but I believe the Great pyramid and the Bent pyramid were built to withstand... and they did. Something happened at the end of the last Ice age, and I believe the Great Pyramid and a few others on the Giza Plateau were the only structures on earth that survived it.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=239390&st=930

One of the many problems with this is that we have evidence of humans living through that time with no problem. Our genetic records show that the last population bottleneck for homo sapiens might have been around 70,000 years ago... but few other animals had population bottlenecks at the same time. If there had been a global catastrophe, ALL species would have had signs of having recovered from populations smaller than a few thousand animals.

Please don't be offended. I really do appreciate your scholarship. Maybe just think of me as a doddering old lady and humor my flights of fancy.... and tell them to do another carbon dating on the Great Pyramid with something other than charcoal.... something organic that was built into the structure... you know?

Like the documents from the work supervisor that detail stone being brought in?

http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/15/17767610-4500-year-old-harbor-structures-and-papyrus-texts-unearthed-in-egypt?lite

[robinrenee]

One of the things you mention is the Electric Universe theory. The theory posits that the universe is shaped by the electromagnetic force rather than gravity. The theory doesn't work for our solar system let alone the universe. When I go to a link such as the following, I see a list of peer reviewed papers discussing the role of electrically charged matter. The papers do not describe the evolution of the universe, but relatively small amounts of matter. Look at the list of papers for the solar system. Nothing in there concerns the structure of the solar system. It is all about electrical currents within the sun or within the atmosphere. What is quite interesting about the website is that it does not offer a theory. I could not find a theory there. I see a statement that electricity is important, but no theory. It would be like having the matter theory of the universe and pointing out that galaxies are made of matter.

http://www.electricu...reviewed_papers

Chill out. The title of the website is the Electric Universe Theory. The owner appears to just be collecting miscellaneous articles about the theory.

There are many other sits like that one which do not offer a theory but label the content as such.

http://rationalwiki....ectric_Universe

I have noticed that scientists protect their "settled science" with all the zeal of religious fanatics. If one does not ask questions, how will one learn?

The notion of catastrophic or sudden events comes from places like the Bible. In the Bible there are events like the flood story.

All the religions and all the cultural mythologies seem to contain stories of a flood and other natural disasters.

Eventually, Hutton came up with the idea that the forces that shaped the Earth in the past are still observable today. Wind, ice, and water have shaped the world we live in. It just took a lot of time. Later on there was a realization that there just might have been some large catastrophic events. The idea of impacts from space is a catastrophic event. The electric universe folks did not invent this idea. They might have borrowed something or made something up.

Hutton who?

Maybe you rain to a site such as this:

http://www.planetamn...rophic-geology/

It has to resort to all of the dodgy ideas that creationists are famous for. It has to claim that dating methods do not work. It has to claim that scientists are purposely overlooking evidence. It has to claim that scientists are in some sort of clique that avoids changes to a particular line of thinking. They claim that industry drives their motivation. They make up things that never happened. In this case it is a nearby pass by another planet causing electrical discharges between the planets.

Do you mean "dodgy ideas" like the ones in "phantasy physics?" ... like a Big Bang, and Black Holes, and Dark Matter, and Dark Energy... all the stuff phantasy physicists made up because they couldn't explain their theories?

It is the same old baloney spouted by all sorts of dubious frauds that push fake cancer cures on people such as magnetic bracelets, or 2012 doom porn sellers, or bigfoot in the freezer sellers, or fake alien photo sellers, or water has memory sellers, etc.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

It should be again noted that there are no indications of the presence of a culture/civilization in the Nile valley circa 12900 BP with the technical resource base/population base/sophisticated hierarchal organization that would be necessary for the monumental structures of the Giza Plateau. In addition, these structures, and many other Old Kingdom structures, have been subject to radiocarbon dating (Bonani, et al, 1995). The results of these datings confirm that, for example, G1 was constructed circa 4600 BP. While this date is slightly earlier (~100 yrs) than the previous conventional dating, it is well within the realm of the understandings regarding the activities of the Old Kingdom.

In regards to your reference: Your source material is quite outdated (2009) in regards to the specific topic. What has become known as the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (YDIH) is the subject of ongoing investigation and controversy. At the present moment the YDIH has not yet been confirmed.

Edit: Phrasing/citation/detail.

I find it ironic that you call something from 2009 as outdated, while yourself using a source from 1995....

[jaylemurph]

that we know of....

Do you often speculate based on a total absence of evidence? That seems counter-productive at best.

--Jaylemurph

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Do you often speculate based on a total absence of evidence? That seems counter-productive at best.

--Jaylemurph

BUT that's the fun sort of speculation, that way you don't have to worry about pesky things like facts and citations!

[Hanslune]

I must speculate that speculation on or about speculationism especially specific speculation on or about speculation is at best speculative.

[Swede]

that we know of....

Just curious... what organic material did they use for their radiocarbon dating?

I checked out the YDIH on wikipedia. (Yeah, I have my lazy moments. ) Remember this is a hypothesis. While reading their criticism, I had to chuckle... Paleoindians started wildfires that caused the "black mat." And they state that "the source of iridium is subject to differing interpretations"... (I doubt that.) http://en.wikipedia....pact_hypothesis

Sounds as if they're now going to have to change the Alvares Hypothesis concerning the extinction of dinosaurs 66 million years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium

Kmt, Kenemet, and Hans have already addressed a number of your questions regarding the radiocarbon dating of the Old Kingdom monumental structures. A few additional points:

• The number of samples extracted from (for example, G1) and submitted for dating, combined with their provenience, adds notable confidence to the calibrated dating results.
  
• As you have observed in the report by Bonani et al (1995) numerous Old Kingdom structures were subject to testing. It is worthy of note that the temporal sequence of the returned dates is consistent with the previous understandings.
  

As to your 12900 BP "calamity", you may be confusing the onset of the YD with some form of grossly devastating event. While the onset of the YD did result in a cooling period lasting until ~11600 BP, there is no indication of "discernible impact on people, plants, animals, or landscapes" (Holliday 2015). Thus, your speculations in this regard are not supported by the data.

As to the YDIH, it would be personally advised that you do research a bit deeper than a "Wiki" reference. There are numerous problems with the hypothesis that have come to light in the course of current research. These include (but are not limited to):

• Insufficient dating accuracy (see Meltzer et al 2014).
  
• The lack of presence of YDIH "indicators" at a number of Clovis-era sites.
  
• Debatable genesis of the framboids and MMSps's.
  
• Debatable genesis of the microspherules.
  
• Etc.
  

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[Swede]

I find it ironic that you call something from 2009 as outdated, while yourself using a source from 1995....

A valid point. To elaborate: The research and controversy surrounding the YDIH is a very active subject with new data being presented at a rather rapid rate. Thus, six years is of significance. In contrast, the radiocarbon dates have not changed nor have they been subject to significant revision.

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