Obama 'backs assault weapons ban'

[AsteroidX]

Your only option rifght now is to be heard. Let your greivances be known. And yes a multinational electronic forum is sharing a greivance. Without that we cannot puish back. BE ****IN HEARD

[freetoroam]

I don't think banning AW will help. More attention to mental illness would. This guys mom warned his babysitter not to turn his back on him even for a minute but yet she did. If you have someone in you family that has mental illness maybe you should lock up you guns and seek help for them even if it means locking them up in a mental institution.

exactly. The signs where there for years, not just at the end, She had even taken him out of schooling, the authorites knew he was not the full shilling and also knew she had a guns around the house, the two are a recipe for disaster.

[AsteroidX]

This is nonsense. It's more of the democrats' attempts to pander to the media and public outcry by doing pretty much nothing about the overall problem.

Yes and no. The only thing that protects your Right to Free Speech left is the Right to bear Arms,. Im not a bot that sits here in a basement speaking on my own. I check in with people with bigger magazines then me.

Our only chance is to get heard and avoid this major catastrophe.

[AsteroidX]

@freetoroam...you guys are right but the agenda is throwing that aside. LETS AGREE WE KNOW THESE DRUGS ARE DANGEROUS. But thats niot what there gonna do today. Today my rights are gonna clipped again like a bird that cryptology.

[AsteroidX]

Have you heard noone has claimed either of the bodies the mother or the shooter. What does that say to me. Her parents are dead and makes a great Patsy.

[ExpandMyMind]

Yes and no. The only thing that protects your Right to Free Speech left is the Right to bear Arms,.

I know this argument has long become circular, but how does you having guns protect your `Right to Free Speech'? There are citizens of countries all over the World with this right who do not have guns. I honestly cannot understand how so many people think that they are actually holding their government hostage. How do people come to believe this sort of thing? 50% of Yemenis own a gun and I'm pretty sure they would love to have British or Australian or Japanese rights to free speech.

I would have thought the only thing to protect your right to free speech would be the, eh, Constitution?

[AsteroidX]

I will be happy to have a convo in public forum or via private pm about how our constititoin is beine removed as a legitate document. It will of course take many hours to pull up the emperic evbidence to show this as fact. So dont start something you cannot rebutt in the same way.

[+and-then]

I know this argument has long become circular, but how does you having guns protect your `Right to Free Speech'? There are citizens of countries all over the World with this right who do not have guns. I honestly cannot understand how so many people think that they are actually holding their government hostage. How do people come to believe this sort of thing? 50% of Yemenis own a gun and I'm pretty sure they would love to have British or Australian or Japanese rights to free speech.

I would have thought the only thing to protect your right to free speech would be the, eh, Constitution?

You mean the Constitution that is daily ignored by politicians in this country now? The FF warned us that defending ourselves from oppressive government was necessary if we wanted to remain free. This latest generation or two have grown too comfortable and we are paying the price. The idea of taking up arms against a tyrannical government is just part of the American psyche. But the best we could hope for these days is to make a revolution that cost the government more than they could afford to pay in treasure and sentiment. If it came down to it I suspect that the 47% we heard so much about would be the Tories in this new revolution. The rest who pay taxes would be the one's revolting. It would be difficult to force people to work and be productive enough to feed the government against their will.

[AsteroidX]

This topic is not ABOUT other countries based on its heading. If you do not love in America I am happy to respect your views may differ from mine as Id ask the same in return.

[ExpandMyMind]

This topic is not ABOUT other countries based on its heading. If you do not love in America I am happy to respect your views may differ from mine as Id ask the same in return.

True, but this is the only way to properly gain some perspective on the matter. This is the reason for comparing two or more parallel situations in this context.

And then, it is part of the American psyche because you have been indoctrinated to believe it.

Edited December 19, 2012 by ExpandMyMind

[Bama13]

I know this argument has long become circular, but how does you having guns protect your `Right to Free Speech'? There are citizens of countries all over the World with this right who do not have guns. I honestly cannot understand how so many people think that they are actually holding their government hostage. How do people come to believe this sort of thing? 50% of Yemenis own a gun and I'm pretty sure they would love to have British or Australian or Japanese rights to free speech.

I would have thought the only thing to protect your right to free speech would be the, eh, Constitution?

The same constitution protects our right to own guns. If we let them take one right whats to stop them from taking the other?

[aztek]

True, but this is the only way to properly gain some perspective on the matter. This is the reason for comparing two or more parallel situations in this context.

no it ain't, you just can't compare other countries to usa, there is very little incommon, starting from culture, ending with taxes.

[AsteroidX]

We could do alot to improve ourselves here but striping the Constitution like they are is not one them.

I point to the Texas thread currently going as solid evidence of the right to Illegal Search and Seizure which is another Constitutional Amendment. The 4th I believe...When things like that happen it is our Constitutional Rights being violated...Now it will be unclear what is appropriate search and seizure until this winds up in the Supreme Court or the cops are hung by there own department. But that still doesnt change the fact that it was violated to begin with. Which is what makes me so angry.

[Hawken]

.Hmmm

Edited December 19, 2012 by Mag357

[Hawken]

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/nyt519.txt

This guy didn't use a gun.

[Stellar]

http://freepages.his...erle/nyt519.txt

This guy didn't use a gun.

May 19, 1927. Thats the date of the NYT article. 86 years ago. Its odd that someone would fetch an article from that long ago...

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I'm still struggling to see how guns protect free speech.

if they take away free speech, no number of guns in a crowd will protect that crowds freedom to assemble and speak.

[Drayno]

If our founding fathers were here today they would probably overthrow our current government. I genuinely believe that. They would be repulsed. They would be upset. And they'd grab a gun. George Mason had it right:

“I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole body of the people except for a few public officials. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them…”

- George Mason (1725-1792), drafted the Virginia Declaration of Rights, ally of James Madison and George Washington

The amount of anti-gun sentiment is a serious problem and related heavily to the survival of our nation as a whole. We may have a violent culture, but there seems to be a legitimate divide between people on what type of guns people should have.

I don't know. People seem to be irritated by this discussion, but to not have the discussion would just be stupid. It would be ignoring the tenets of this nation and its entire history up until this point. If people even mentioned banning any form of gun to our nation one hundred years ago we would have been slapped. Tell any one in 1945 that disarming the nation would be a good idea, and they would point out the amount of dead American soldiers who fell to the bullets of fascist or totalitarian regimes.

Given our freedom is guaranteed by our nation to be armed, to even attempt to modify that in any way would be the worst mistake we could ever make. It would be the end of America as the world has known it. We as a nation are meant to be armed with the same technology our government has, in general arms, such as guns, so that we stand a chance in a fight against them..

But if you even question that you wouldn't stand a chance against your government, if you're even scared of fighting back - you are questioning your freedom. You've already begun to give up your freedom in itself by being hesitant. You've begun to let your government take some of your freedom by allowing them to modify the definition of it - something integral to the survival of the country. You start to limit your own freedom because a government that is supposed to protect your freedom now wants to modify the definition of it. How? By excluding the same technology they have to you - that you're supposed to use against them, if they even begin to infringe upon your ability to protect yourself.

The very tool everyone has to prevent such a situation, the second amendment - the media is intentionally demonizing. People are letting gun-related events scare them out of their rights because of all the anti-gun propaganda spreading anti-gun sentiment. We're doing to our guns what we did to our privacy after 9/11. We're not learning from our mistakes.

We're disagreeing on our one common defense against tyranny - playing Russian roulette with our freedom; one foot off a building. And that seriously worries me. Revolution is necessary every few generations. Our country was founded on it. To ignore our ability as a nation to fight back is fundamentally writing it off. Kiss it goodbye. It's lost its greatness. People will look back in history books and build a government based on the opposite of what we're doing to our country.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Eonwe

[Guest]

But you have failed - your guns have not prevented you as a nation from acquiescing to a tyranical government.

Its a security blanket to make you feel as though you have some power. An objective analysis would show you that you have not exercised your power for over a hundred years.

The only purpose your guns serve is to allow you to kill each other in your powerless frustration.

Sad.

Power doesn't just come through the barrel of a gun and believing it does is dangerously disempowering.

Br Cornelius

Edited December 23, 2012 by Guest

[Drayno]

But you have failed - your guns have not prevented you as a nation from acquiescing to a tyranical government.

Its a security blanket to make you feel as though you have some power. An objective analysis would show you that you have not exercised your power for over a hundred years.

The only purpose your guns serve is to allow you to kill each other in your powerless frustration.

Sad.

Power doesn't just come through the barrel of a gun and believing it does is dangerously disempowering.

Br Cornelius

Power is power. The illusion of power, or how people perceive said power is irrelevant.

Power only matters in a life or death situation or in matters to prevent such life or death situations.

Regardless of our government now - to limit ourselves from even organizing would be a mistake.

The ability to defend oneself against one's government, no matter the odds, is crucial to one's survival.

To independence. To true individuality. Not prepackaged ideas that influence opinion or identity.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Eonwe

[Guest]

Power is power. The illusion of power, or how people perceive said power is irrelevant.

Power only matters in a life or death situation or in matters to prevent such life or death situations.

Regardless of our government now - to limit ourselves from even organizing would be a mistake.

The ability to defend oneself against one's government, no matter the odds, is crucial to one's survival.

To independence. To true individuality. Not prepackaged ideas that influence opinion or identity.

If it comes to an armed struggle you will lose - the Government has more trained men with better weapons and more will to kill for its position. As I said Guns offer the illusion of real power to the diempowered masses. Meanwhile people are almost completely disinterested in engaging in Democratic power - and then wonder why they are in such a bad place.

Your fetish with guns will get you dead - and certainly will not rain in your government,

It is far easier to open fire on a militia man than a democratic and purposeful civil disobedience movement.

Br Cornelius

[AsteroidX]

OK

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

"I'm free anf my gun protects my liberty"

"you're under aresst and this army will make it so"

I am honestly failig to see how guns ensure your freedom, because when the baloon goes up and you've been stripped of your last freedom and the fascists rule, they'll have more guns and biger guns then you.

[Hawken]

May 19, 1927. Thats the date of the NYT article. 86 years ago. Its odd that someone would fetch an article from that long ago...

So what's 86 years ago make it any different then today. Human life was lost including many children. The point I'm making is

that now there's a cry for gun control because of Newtown CT. But this guy 86 years ago used dynamite to kill. Anybody with

evil intentions will always find a why to kill even if you take away his gun.

[+and-then]

"I'm free anf my gun protects my liberty"

"you're under aresst and this army will make it so"

I am honestly failig to see how guns ensure your freedom, because when the baloon goes up and you've been stripped of your last freedom and the fascists rule, they'll have more guns and biger guns then you.

Insurgencies are notoriously hard to truly put down. Iraq and Afghanistan come to mind. And that is a tale of foreign troops doing the job. Imagine having to do this with your own countrymen. And imagine that many of those countrymen were current and former military trained. It's not so clear as you make it WoH. As the rules are today, if a police officer (unarmed) came in uniform to seize my guns or myself I would offer no resistance. But if a law or decree is passed legally to seize them? I become several million strong, quickly.