Arm the Teachers?

[freetoroam]

so if they ban the guns in the USA, those who want them will buy them from abroad, as many are doing already. Ban on gun laws are not going to stop those who refy the rules anyway, it will just give them a bigger ego because they have got a gun and the normal law abiding citizen has not.

Unless every gun in the world was ban, there is no way you are going to be able to control this, it is a world wide thing, as long as someone is out there selling, there will always be someone to buy.

Then you have the other option, arm everyone, oh boy!! the only people I can see really benefitting from this are the gun manufacturers. There are enough out there who tipped a little further over the edge will not need to look far for a means to take their vengence out on the next man, this brings me to the next point:

The minds of the individual, I feel I can quite safely say that this could have been avoided because it was not news that he had major issues, the mother should never had a hoard of guns around because she knew he was mentally unstable!

If they can not get hold of a gun, they will find something else, look at Timothy McVeigh! maybe the pc brigade should take a step down and allow people with issues to be looked at a bit more closely........without protesting about their human rights.

[praetorian-legio XIII]

I think that the problem maybe is not only the guns but the prevailing attitude towards violence itself. Americans glorify violence and condem sexuality. Always have.

A movie is restricted for a boob shot or swearing but a movie containing absolute gore is almost wide open. And video games. The most popular seem to be the most violent, whether its killing zombies, monsters, aliens or other human beings. What message are we sending to our kids when they are forbidden to observe the beauty of the human body but are allowed to witness absolute bloody carnage.

It seems all backwards to me.

[freetoroam]

What message are we sending to our kids when they are forbidden to observe the beauty of the human body

They can, they are called porn mags, and look where that has got us!

[praetorian-legio XIII]

They can, they are called porn mags, and look where that has got us!

I realize the availability of porn, espescially on-line, however I was referring to the attitude regarding sex and violence in this society through the censorship standards of entertainment outlets such as movies, games, and TV.

And out of curiousity, where has porn "mags" got us?

[JGirl]

I realize the availability of porn, espescially on-line, however I was referring to the attitude regarding sex and violence in this society through the censorship standards of entertainment outlets such as movies, games, and TV.

And out of curiousity, where has porn "mags" got us?

i agree that it's a distorted view of what is acceptable viewing and what isn't.

not to say that media dictates society's attitude, but rather it reflects it.

in any case i don't imagine porn is the same as what you were referring to with regard to bleeping out a boob but leaving in a guy getting vivisected or some such thing.

[freetoroam]

I realize the availability of porn, espescially on-line, however I was referring to the attitude regarding sex and violence in this society through the censorship standards of entertainment outlets such as movies, games, and TV.

And out of curiousity, where has porn "mags" got us?

I was just pointing out that those with unstable brain matter will find other ways to "entertain" themselves.

It takes more than the removal of more than one brick to bring the house down.

[+and-then]

Now let me answer that with another question: If calling 911 works in the rest of the world why does it not in the US? And the answer is: it works, it is just the obstination of a few who think they can stay civilized while taking justice into their own hand who deny that.

Tell that to the survivors of Katrina.

[Sakari]

I was waiting for someone to suggest this. Welcome to the land of the Free. Where the only way to survive is to have a Gun with you at all times, just in case anyone you meet might be a psychopath.

Really, America, when are you going to realise that something's gone seriously wrong.

Actually, the first person to bring this up, was a anti-gun person.

[Space Commander Travis]

Actually, the first person to bring this up, was a anti-gun person.

Oh no, I didn't mean the starter of the thread, I don't suppose he was recommending for a minute, I mean I was waiting for someone to suggest it as an idea.

[Babe Ruth]

I seriously don't know the correct route.

I was brought up around guns, but always safety was emphasized first. I have no issue with law abiding citizen owning them. But something needs to be done. We can't just keep saying 'oh well' as innocent kids are brutally murdered.

I wish there was an obvious solution, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out. I'm looking to our elected leaders and think tanks across the nation to help out.

Great post! We must always keep in mind that Utopia is not an option of the legislative process. A more likely result is "unintended consequences".

[questionmark]

Tell that to the survivors of Katrina.

You are trying to pull by its hair an event in which civilization ceased to exist for weeks in a whole county and apply that to the parts of the nation that pretend to still have civilization. Comparing apples with pears does not get you anywhere in a sane argument.

[lightly]

Michigan (my state) just passed a bill on to the governor which legalized guns in schools , churches, and Sporting events!!! (how idiotic is that?) The recent tragedy brought about a Veto by our illustrious governor.. so the idea is dead for now.

Arming teachers? uh,,, no. .. I don't have THE answer , but that ain't it • Instead of trying to find ways to get more guns into schools, it might be wise to look into ways to keep them out? duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[aztek]

Arming teachers? uh,,, no. .. I don't have THE answer , but that ain't it • Instead of trying to find ways to get more guns into schools, it might be wise to look into ways to keep them out? duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

we have been keeping arms from schools, it didn't help.

no one yet tried to go on shooting rampage at police academy, why?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

we have been keeping arms from schools, it didn't help.

no one yet tried to go on shooting rampage at police academy, why?

Yet, in Australia there have been gun rampages at schools (hell, when I was in high school a kid mad at being expelled took a gun to school and fired it into the office - he ended up with fewer teeth courtesy of the deputy principal who disarmed him). And I've yet to see it suggested that we have metal detectors, armed guards and armed teachers on campus.

[aztek]

Yet, in Australia there have been gun rampages at schools (hell, when I was in high school a kid mad at being expelled took a gun to school and fired it into the office - he ended up with fewer teeth courtesy of the deputy principal who disarmed him). And I've yet to see it suggested that we have metal detectors, armed guards and armed teachers on campus.

USA is not Australia

in USA he would sue the principal, and win.

[Sakari]

The more I think about this, yes.....Arm some.

I would be willing to bet volunteers would not be hard to come by on this.

Better give them a huge raise though.......Anyone in the US knows how underpaid teachers are.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Sakari

[AsteroidX]

If you read this and then tell me with proper training a teacher or principle should not be able to get training and a cwp and have it on there person at school then I will be an excellent to have a debate with. I dont however want to see school teachers toting pistols on there waist while teaching young children. That would be the wrong messsage to send. But hey. Thats where the training would come in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

[ExpandMyMind]

Michigan (my state) just passed a bill on to the governor which legalized guns in schools , churches, and Sporting events!!! (how idiotic is that?) The recent tragedy brought about a Veto by our illustrious governor.. so the idea is dead for now.

Arming teachers? uh,,, no. .. I don't have THE answer , but that ain't it • Instead of trying to find ways to get more guns into schools, it might be wise to look into ways to keep them out? duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm sorry, but the reactionary stupidity of the Americans often completely astounds us on the outside of your bubble. Yikes.

[Sakari]

If you read this and then tell me with proper training a teacher or principle should not be able to get training and a cwp and have it on there person at school then I will be an excellent to have a debate with. I dont however want to see school teachers toting pistols on there waist while teaching young children. That would be the wrong messsage to send. But hey. Thats where the training would come in.

http://en.wikipedia....School_shooting

With training, and concealed, this should happen......It would have saved countless lives I am sure.

[ExpandMyMind]

If you read this and then tell me with proper training a teacher or principle should not be able to get training and a cwp and have it on there person at school then I will be an excellent to have a debate with. I dont however want to see school teachers toting pistols on there waist while teaching young children. That would be the wrong messsage to send. But hey. Thats where the training would come in.

http://en.wikipedia....School_shooting

You obviously did not read the OP. You should, he's a smart poster with plenty of experience in this matter.

[Sakari]

As I said in a previous topic...

If there had been a teacher there, that had a concealed weapon ( legally, although I am sure not allowed at School ) and had stopped this at the start. Either by holding him until police came, or shooting him before he could do anything this discussion would be a lot different......But....

Would the discussion be :

How do we know he was really going to hurt anyone?

or

This teacher is a Hero, this is something to learn by.

or

He saved people, but he still broke the law and should not have had a gun there.

Funny how deaths, or no deaths can radically change the views of people.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Sakari

[AsteroidX]

Actually I dont believe what I am saying and what the OP are that far apart. Ill let him/her chime if they wish. You obviously didnt read my post very well and have a preconceived biased view.

[ExpandMyMind]

Actually I dont believe what I am saying and what the OP are that far apart. Ill let him/her chime if they wish. You obviously didnt read my post very well and have a preconceived biased view.

You said 'If you read this and then tell me with proper training a teacher or principle should not be able to get training and a cwp and have it on there person at school then I will be an excellent to have a debate with.'

He said 'Ok, so let me get this straight. The way to stop shootings is to arm people who are untrained to deal with such situations? I am a trained soldier have been on tour so I've gone through training to use my rifle in stressful situations but that is because it is my job. I have seen what happens when jumpy soldiers are under trained in the use of their firearms (they where not front line soldiers) and this resulted in the near wounding or killing of friendly troops in the camp (we where under enemy attack). Now giving a teacher a gun is a VERY bad idea. They might have some training in it's use but will have no where near the training of a Police Officer or other agency who's primary job is to deal with this type of situation.

You give a teacher a gun and odds are more then just the gunman will get injured. They will be scared, jumpy, have tunnel vision, and odds are shoot first see who it is later. More then likely they will empty their magazine fast or not be able to react in the first place. A normal human being is not likely to shoot another human being (this is a fact proven by the military, which started changing training methods during the last half century).

I just have to ask if your solution to school shootings is to arm untrained Educators, then America look in the mirror and find the route of the problem, not a potentially dangerous band aid solution.'

You: giving guns to weapons trained teachers is a good idea.

Him: giving guns to weapons trained teachers is an incredibly bad idea.

How on earth does this equate to you and him being not all that 'far apart' on the matter? You are on completely different ends of the spectrum. And I understand that you are suggesting giving certain teachers 'proper' training, but just look at the OP. It is clear that even with far more extensive training, some people simply do not handle the pressure well. They would likely be a danger to themselves and others.

[AsteroidX]

Because with a discussion about what that training would consist of and who within the school would be eligible for a cwp I believe he did not cover.

He made a blanket statement about training and might know something about what he is talking when it comes to proper training. Which is not far from what Im saying.

I opposed what the OP said sure but without his input we dont know.

[preacherman76]

If a teacher is willing to go through some training, I think its a great idea. Its really a no brainer. Even to the folks here mocking the idea. Answer this. A lunitic gunmen breaks into the school where your 5 year old son or daughter attends. He walks on to the first floor, where your childs class room is,. there are only 2 class rooms on this floor, and the madman is hell bent on killing everyone in both of them. The teachers get a heads up hearing shots fired when the man entered the building. In class room A a teacher has rushed the students in to the closet and is crouched down where he can get a clear shot as the man walks through the door with his 9mm. In class room B they are all hiding in the closet terrified with no hope what so ever. Which room would you want your child in?