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Thanato

Arm the Teachers?

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Render

It's almost like a lot of Americans trully believe they live in some kind of hollywood movie and they're gonna have their shot at being John Mcclane (Die hard).

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AsteroidX

Wrong Thread.

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Yamato

Really, this is just an over-the-top reactionary response to a tragic event. There are so many negatives to this. First, imagine the outcry when poor 15-year old Johnny is shot dead by the teacher because he is about to start a rampage on his own. His parents will say "that isn't our Johnny, Johnny would never hurt other people like that". The next thing we know, the media is demanding the school explain why the teacher shot a student (even with Johnny's Facebook update saying "I'm going to kill everyone", we can't know with 100% certainty that this would have happened). Next, the parents are suing the school and/or the teacher and demanding that this teacher be sacked.

And what's wrong with all that? I call that "Gun Control". Why is the federal government and whatever lines it draws up the only effective way to deal with gun violence?

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Space Commander Travis

If a teacher is willing to go through some training, I think its a great idea. Its really a no brainer. Even to the folks here mocking the idea. Answer this. A lunitic gunmen breaks into the school where your 5 year old son or daughter attends. He walks on to the first floor, where your childs class room is,. there are only 2 class rooms on this floor, and the madman is hell bent on killing everyone in both of them. The teachers get a heads up hearing shots fired when the man entered the building. In class room A a teacher has rushed the students in to the closet and is crouched down where he can get a clear shot as the man walks through the door with his 9mm. In class room B they are all hiding in the closet terrified with no hope what so ever. Which room would you want your child in?

Doesn't the mere fact that this is seen as a No Brainer say all that could possibly said about the demise of American civilisation? (Not decline; I'm afraid it's too late for that). The very thought of teachers playing Dirty Harry to take out some intruder should in any civlised society be so incredible as to be literally that - beyond credibility. A society where there is a no brainer is one that no longer has a right to call itself civilised, I fear.

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AsteroidX

If the teacher had a CWP this might be a win for keeping kids locked in boxes all day. Looks like Ill be having to keep my kid at home. If the Adults cant protect themselves why would I leave my kid there.

I cant stop for the cops. so I wont get caught. For keeping my kid home for school.

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Render

Would Arming Teachers And Students Really Have Prevented A Tragedy?

A recent bill sent from the Michigan House of Representatives to the Governor would make it easier to carry a concealed weapon in a school. After Friday's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, a spokesman for House Speaker Jase Bolger said the policy could have been “the difference between life and death for many innocent bystanders.”

Is he right? Will allowing guns in schools make those schools safer? It hasn't helped much in homes or on the street, researchers say, and evidence suggests that access to guns could actually exacerbate violence.

In the study, someone in possession of a gun was about 4.5 times more likely to be shot. If the victim had a chance to resist, he or she was 5.5 times more likely to be shot.

Even more interesting is what the research didn't find. "There was an expectation that we should surely find a protective value," the study's lead researcher Charles Branas, of the University of Pennsylvania, says. But having a gun, he says, "on average was found not to be protective in assaults." This is the conclusion written in the study: "Although successful defensive gun uses can and do occur, the findings of this study do not support the perception that such successes are likely."

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-12/could-arming-teachers-and-students-prevent-tragedy

Simply face the facts.

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AsteroidX

Id rather Homeschool my kid anyways.

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Space Commander Travis

This is the worst idea since King Leonidas said "it's just a goat trail, it can't hurt anyone".

Really, this is just an over-the-top reactionary response to a tragic event. There are so many negatives to this. First, imagine the outcry when poor 15-year old Johnny is shot dead by the teacher because he is about to start a rampage on his own. His parents will say "that isn't our Johnny, Johnny would never hurt other people like that". The next thing we know, the media is demanding the school explain why the teacher shot a student (even with Johnny's Facebook update saying "I'm going to kill everyone", we can't know with 100% certainty that this would have happened). Next, the parents are suing the school and/or the teacher and demanding that this teacher be sacked.

Another problem I see - let's say the new laws are passed and teachers are allowed to carry guns. Assuming that carrying a gun is not mandatory and teachers can choose not to carry a gun.... Imagine a teacher retires, two equally qualified teachers apply for the job, each are great at what they do, and each would be a tremendous benefit to the school. One of them has a moral objection to carrying firearms, and the other has no such qualms. Is this not a case of Discrimination? Will some school jobs be advertised with a provision that a concealed weapons permit is preferred for any prospective applicants?

I can't stress how bad this idea is, and I know most Americans agree with me on that so my admittedly Australian sensibilities are not the only ones being affronted here.

~ Regards, PA

Given how much stress it's well known that the job involves, I think there'd be huge opportunities for a teacher to snap and go postal, don't you think? Not to mention if the students know that there's a Gun in the classroom; would it be kept in a secure cabinet or something?, surely the only point in having it would be for it to be readily at hand. It could be very easy for some kid, in the heat of the moment, to get hold of the teacher's gun, couldn't it. How many more tragedies might having Guns in the classroom cause than not having them?

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docyabut2

Who knows what went wrong in our society, some say taking the ten commandments out of the schools, kids have no rules or guidence to follow. Abortion teaching kids no value on life. The medications so many kids are put on. To much violence in the vidio games. All maybe the contributing factors. As a older person I remember people never locking their doors, the good old ten comandments were posted at the schools and one rarely heard of a murder. I `m afraid nothing will change. The Government will have another task force where nothing is done,8,000 people just went out and joined the NRA.

In our state it was said. If Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine were a school board member, he would “seriously consider” hiring trained ex-police officers, with access to guns, to work security in schools.

By the way we just had a threat at our local school, where my grandchilden go.:(

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AsteroidX

My kid got pooled from school. Im almost right I got told right all local schools are shut down tomorrow. Because of some threat of violence or something.Im a bog proponent of himschooling now. The Internet offers some great options.

Edited by AsteroidX

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AsteroidX

I bet after 7 of them died and countless others theyd rather be homeschooling as well. But its easier to lock in a box all day.

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preacherman76

Doesn't the mere fact that this is seen as a No Brainer say all that could possibly said about the demise of American civilisation? (Not decline; I'm afraid it's too late for that).

Sure. But then what did we think was going to happen when we allow drug companies to push harmfull mind altering drugs on children as young as 2 years old? We failed as a society to protect our children from these monsters who are just as evil as someone who would go into a school and shoot up the place.

The very thought of teachers playing Dirty Harry to take out some intruder should in any civlised society be so incredible as to be literally that - beyond credibility. A society where there is a no brainer is one that no longer has a right to call itself civilised, I fear.

Beyond credibility? No. I doubt anyone here really thinks its beyond credibility. What say you? Class room A or class room B?

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preacherman76

Given how much stress it's well known that the job involves, I think there'd be huge opportunities for a teacher to snap and go postal, don't you think? Not to mention if the students know that there's a Gun in the classroom; would it be kept in a secure cabinet or something?, surely the only point in having it would be for it to be readily at hand. It could be very easy for some kid, in the heat of the moment, to get hold of the teacher's gun, couldn't it. How many more tragedies might having Guns in the classroom cause than not having them?

Personaly I think this is a way over reaction. If teachers were that prone to snap and kill people, they would be doing it already. How hard would it be to break the neck of a 7 year old kid? If a teacher isnt responcible enough to carry a gun, why the hell are they teaching our children?

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ExpandMyMind

I can't believe this pseudo-debate has went on for six pages when this is literally one of the most stupid ideas I have ever heard of.

Trying to reason with a reactionary-American is like trying to reason with an oncoming train. Thankfully they are in the minority or this entire World would be a very different place.

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AsteroidX

The quality of education isnt worth it anways. I want a safe child not a child thats locked in a box 8-10 hours a day. If rationale ideas to make schools safe and decent places including fun cant be done then it is not a system that needs to remain.

There are alternatives out there. But we are going to have to do it ourselves.

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docyabut2

I remember when the Columbine shootings happen 1999, my two daughters were still in high school, there was also a threat, I went to the school and asked do you have a security guard? They said yes but not armed and I thought what good would that do. I`m all for putting armed guards at the schools but as Dewine said it must be up to the school boards to do the hiring.

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Yamato

Personaly I think this is a way over reaction. If teachers were that prone to snap and kill people, they would be doing it already. How hard would it be to break the neck of a 7 year old kid? If a teacher isnt responcible enough to carry a gun, why the hell are they teaching our children?

Hopefully because they're trained to teach, not to shoot. The question could also be asked: Why have a gun, if you don't know how to use it?

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AsteroidX

I guess Im going to go the homeschool way. Although I would like to see Principals, and some select staff havea CWP and Training to react if a situation happened. It would have made a difference in the tragedy that happened.

I wont want to continue or support this donward spiral and ecent into a fear based society. It is completely unneccasry and we dont need the permission of anyone to keep our kid home and homeschool him.

Id again like to say theres a good many teachers right now that would be rather helping out homeschool kids then going into the locked up schools that are still getting shot up. And unable to defend themselves. Its a no brainer.

My kids gonna be homeschooled and not have to experience this horrid transition within the school system.

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Space Commander Travis

Beyond credibility? No. I doubt anyone here really thinks its beyond credibility. What say you? Class room A or class room B?

i'm afraid it is beyond credibility in any society that sees itself as having moved on from the Wild West, or the state of affairs one might expect in Afghanistan or Somalia.

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Yamato

I guess Im going to go the homeschool way. Although I would like to see Principals, and some select staff havea CWP and Training to react if a situation happened. It would have made a difference in the tragedy that happened.

I wont want to continue or support this donward spiral and ecent into a fear based society. It is completely unneccasry and we dont need the permission of anyone to keep our kid home and homeschool him.

Id again like to say theres a good many teachers right now that would be rather helping out homeschool kids then going into the locked up schools that are still getting shot up. And unable to defend themselves. Its a no brainer.

My kids gonna be homeschooled and not have to experience this horrid transition within the school system.

That's a good solution. A huge commitment in time and energy though. It takes a lot of diligence as my sister can attest to. You'll be a student as much as a teacher too, since you have to refresh yourself with many lessons on many subjects to teach and grade them effectively.

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preacherman76

He was trying to find a solution that was not encouraging ecen more guns out there. What Americans have to understand is that the rest of the world hears ideas like this and judge the whole nation by the reactions of a part of the population. Most of us cannot understand why the thought of more guns would make a situation like this better. It is always about the individual's rights-the right to arm yourself? What makes one citizen more important that society as a whole?

Make no mistake Glory, we dont care what the world thinks. You dont understand how more guns could make this situation better, cause you dont want to know. There is only one town that I am aware of here in America where every head of the house by law must have a fire arm. Since this law was put in place, Overnight crime dropped over 85%. A armed society is a polite society.

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preacherman76

i'm afraid it is beyond credibility in any society that sees itself as having moved on from the Wild West, or the state of affairs one might expect in Afghanistan or Somalia.

How is that a fair comparison? Unless you are going to include the threat of armed drones blowing up the school. Which probably isnt to far down the road, JK,, kinda. Lets see if it has credibility and answer the question. A or B. And if you pick B, you are lieing to yourself. Adding security for our children, now that its proven its self to be a need, isnt in any way a return to the wild west. Why would people using fire arms in a lawful manor, to protect the most innocent among us be a bad thing?

Edited by preacherman76
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AsteroidX

The Internet is a great tool in making this easier.

This is the first and best step to take in addition to what was already mentioned. As yes it would require alot of transition and people that were willing too make a meaningful effort to fill the gaps. I mean there is no childcare for many families that have to work for survival. A remedy for that is necessary. There needs to be away to keep kids well socialized, and some sort of safe area were kids can go to take subject based testing/ non standardized. Each child learns differently.. These can have days of being open/even hours that only the parents know about. If it needs to be so extreme. It is not such a huge leap that it exceeds other transitions in America. What it does do is offer is a new way to look at education.

https://www.khanacademy.org/

It is a revolutionary idea our current government will not consider. But 1000'salready use Khan academy as there primary education and it is the perfect athomeschool tool.

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AsteroidX

And who has proven to be more pationate about there students then the recent teachers that lost there lives. I am willing to entrust with them there ability to be hardworking to help this. But alas. Tomorrow I will wake up to some horror filled country optionless.

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preacherman76

I can't believe this pseudo-debate has went on for six pages when this is literally one of the most stupid ideas I have ever heard of.

Trying to reason with a reactionary-American is like trying to reason with an oncoming train. Thankfully they are in the minority or this entire World would be a very different place.

Its stupid to you cause you are willfully ignorant when it comes to gun restrictions and crime rates. There is a reason why every city that bands guns ends up on top of the list in murders. Not only this but you are also ignoring every historical measuring stick when it comes to gun restrictions. Your argument is based on complete ignorance. Whats worse is you acuse people who are informed on this subject as being reactionary, when your opinion is not only a total reaction, its completly uninformed as well.

There is a reason not a single person in this thread answered my question. Cause the only obvious answer blows your argument right outta the water.

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