Guns are part of the American identity

[Jinxdom]

Movie = make-believe. Not real. Fantasy.

Lol no crap but the moral of the movie is a real one. In a place where nobody believes in violence all it takes is one person who uses violence to screw up that system. That isn't make believe. The idea that some people can just want to see people die... is not make believe.

The idea that everybody can get along is... make believe, the idea that getting rid of guns(I do support some gun control but people have a tendency to blow crap out of proportion) will actually stop every single tragedy is.... make believe. The idea that giving a hug(Showing Love) instead of a bullet to a person who snapped(by then it's too late) will stop him from murdering..... is make believe.

I'm for gun control when the reasons are good ones. After a tragedy when people's emotions are running hot is not the time to make new laws. When emotions are flaring reason flies out the window and without reason bad laws get put in to play.

[Guest]

Lol no crap but the moral of the movie is a real one. In a place where nobody believes in violence all it takes is one person who uses violence to screw up that system. That isn't make believe. The idea that some people can just want to see people die... is not make believe.

The idea that everybody can get along is... make believe, the idea that getting rid of guns(I do support some gun control but people have a tendency to blow crap out of proportion) will actually stop every single tragedy is.... make believe. The idea that giving a hug(Showing Love) instead of a bullet to a person who snapped(by then it's too late) will stop him from murdering..... is make believe.

I'm for gun control when the reasons are good ones. After a tragedy when people's emotions are running hot is not the time to make new laws. When emotions are flaring reason flies out the window and without reason bad laws get put in to play.

The idea that misrepresenting other people position in order to discredit their arguments is wrong to.

I am for gun control because less people die from gun shots in societies with tight gun controls. In fact less people die from homicide in countries with tight gun control. Sandy Hook has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Br Cornelius

Edited January 1, 2013 by Guest

[Yamato]

I haven't seen that to be the case either. Turkey has had more homicides than any other country in the world, and it has far more restrictive gun control than the US.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compare/187/firearm_regulation_-_guiding_policy/194

Sandy Hook has plenty to do with all this sudden rabble rousing about guns again. We're not happy with violent crimes at a 20-year low in the US, we need to rabble rouse about the 2nd Amendment again after a sensational event like Sandy Hook.

[Jinxdom]

The idea that misrepresenting other people position in order to discredit their arguments is wrong to.

I am for gun control because less people die from gun shots in societies with tight gun controls. In fact less people die from homicide in countries with tight gun control. Sandy Hook has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Br Cornelius

You do realize I was just ranting about all of the idealistic but far from realistic things people said in this topic right?

People have a tendency to agree to things that wouldn't normally agree to when emotions run hot. Which is what Sandy Hook is doing. Fear, Anger when reasons are based off of those two emotions people start agreeing to some stupid things. Sandy Hook was problem caused by carelessness not crappy gun control yet the fear from it is being used to push stupid regulations.

Gun control is at a tad bit harder to fix when you have cartels providing weapons from across the border. Which is a major contributor to the US gun problem. Some areas in our country are basically a war-zone/or third world country. People seem to forget to mention that.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Jinxdom

[questionmark]

You do realize I was just ranting about all of the idealistic but far from realistic things people said in this topic right?

People have a tendency to agree to things that wouldn't normally agree to when emotions run hot. Which is what Sandy Hook is doing. Fear, Anger when reasons are based off of those two emotions people start agreeing to some stupid things. Sandy Hook was problem caused by carelessness not crappy gun control yet the fear from it is being used to push stupid regulations.

Gun control is at a tad bit harder to fix when you have cartels providing weapons from across the border. Which is a major contributor to the US gun problem. Some areas in our country are basically a war-zone/or third world country. People seem to forget to mention that.

How would you call the fact that 85% of those guns smuggled across the border are made in the USA? I call it lack of control.

[+joc]

How would you call the fact that 85% of those guns smuggled across the border are made in the USA? I call it lack of control.

I call it:

Fast and Furious

[ninjadude]

How is repealing our right to bear arms not banning our right to bear arms?

It removes the constitutional argument. Arms can still be allowed and controlled.

What Constitutional Amendment or Act of Congress banned smoking in those places that I wasn't aware of?

The laws banning smoking are state and local. I'll allow that maybe you live in the wilderness.

[Yamato]

It removes the constitutional argument. Arms can still be allowed and controlled.

The laws banning smoking are state and local. I'll allow that maybe you live in the wilderness.

As should gun laws be, state and local. Your goons in DC have no clue how to pay their bills let alone how to use their guns properly. My guns are infinitely more responsibly kept than theirs are, it is I who should be controlling them, and the Founders agreed. Again, there is a process for amending the Constitution. Good luck.

[Jinxdom]

How would you call the fact that 85% of those guns smuggled across the border are made in the USA? I call it lack of control.

I would too, that's why we need proper gun control not what people are trying to push. The ban on assault weapons and the regulations they are trying to pass are pointless because the people it needs to effect wouldn't be touched. You need to put the proper thing in the proper place.

85% of the guns are smuggled maybe a better priority would be to police our borders better no? (following the proper thing in the proper place of course because well they are doing that already but botched another amendment up while trying)

Edited January 2, 2013 by Jinxdom

[+joc]

I would too, that's why we need proper gun control not what people are trying to push. The ban on assault weapons and the regulations they are trying to pass are pointless because the people it needs to effect wouldn't be touched. You need to put the proper thing in the proper place.

85% of the guns are smuggled maybe a better priority would be to police our borders better no? (following the proper thing in the proper place of course because well they are doing that already but botched another amendment up while trying)

One solution rather than controlling who has guns is to control those who use them in crimes....control = Hang by the neck till you're dead, outside of the court house three days after you are convicted.

[Jinxdom]

One solution rather than controlling who has guns is to control those who use them in crimes....control = Hang by the neck till you're dead, outside of the court house three days after you are convicted.

That would be nice but not all that realistic since the people who that should happen to the police really aren't prepped to go get them at this point in time and that would cause a more crime to get bumped up to include murders since getting caught would be a pretty good way to die(Although it wouldn't do to much for heat of the moment crimes since outcome doesn't matter). In the case of illegal guns coming in to through the border stopping that would not target the people who should still have their right to own a gun, just make it harder for the people who lost the right already.(Which is what most people want) If the need for them to have a gun happens to protect our country or liberty well then at that time they could since the actual regulations/laws wouldn't mean jack at that time and guns wouldn't be outright banned in the country. Slowing the illegal guns down first would make what you want easier in the long run with less kickback.

Criminals have less guns, good people do not get their rights violated, Police have an easier time dealing with criminals since they are less likely to be heavily armed(after a while that is nothing happens over night) .

[+joc]

The problem isn't with guns, it is with an unethical and immoral populace. That didn't happen over night either. It happened because decades ago we started coddling criminals. We need to start hanging our murderers in front of the courthouse...not fifteen years after the fact, that is insane...three days after you, I and ten other people said they were guilty. That sends a message to the populace and little Johnny and little Suzy grow up seeing people swinging from a rope...something they will think about when the seed of carnage first enters their brain. Consider that, as wild as the wild, wild west was, you didn't really have to worry about someone stealing your horse outside the saloon...it was understood by all what those consequenses would be.

[AsteroidX]

So what if guns are smuggled. Its not new. AKA Iran-Contra

[+joc]

So what if guns are smuggled. Its not new. AKA Iran-Contra

Guns being smuggled to Mexico are not for fighting anyone...they go straight to the drug cartels. That's it. Another topic but...Drones need to be employed on the border.

[questionmark]

Guns being smuggled to Mexico are not for fighting anyone...they go straight to the drug cartels. That's it. Another topic but...Drones need to be employed on the border.

and from them they come back to the Lincoln Heights gang in San Diego... so they can have another drive-by shooting.

[+joc]

and from them they come back to the Lincoln Heights gang in San Diego... so they can have another drive-by shooting.

So...the answer then is to go to WAR with the drug cartels...annihate them...outlaw gangs and annhilate them in the US...destroy the poppy fields and coca farms all over the world and ask the world...any questions? And then tell them to go stuff it!

[questionmark]

So...the answer then is to go to WAR with the drug cartels...annihate them...outlaw gangs and annhilate them in the US...destroy the poppy fields and coca farms all over the world and ask the world...any questions? And then tell them to go stuff it!

The answer is: no more guns exports to Mexico unless they can control the stuff.

The war against the drug cartels has failed and is a waste of money. Invading Mexico to get at somebody, as proven by the Pershing expedition to catch Pancho Villa, leads nowhere. The cartels are still singing the the song about "Our Mexico on the 23d of February". And if you know Spanish it is not the kind of song we want to hear.

Edited January 2, 2013 by questionmark

[+joc]

The answer is: no more guns exports to Mexico unless they can control the stuff.

The war against the drug cartels has failed and is a waste of money. Invading Mexico to get at somebody, as proven by the Pershing expedition to catch Pancho Villa, leads nowhere. The cartels are still singing the the song about "Our Mexico on the 23d of February". And if you know Spanish it is not the kind of song we want to hear.

We never had a war against the drug cartels (and we never will) We had a War on Drugs...which is about as ambiguish as it gets. A real war on drug cartels would mean waging war against the countries that coddle them or are owned by them..like Mexico. Ain't gonna happen.

[aztek]

a call b.s. on 85%

prove it.

[Jinxdom]

So...the answer then is to go to WAR with the drug cartels...annihate them...outlaw gangs and annhilate them in the US...destroy the poppy fields and coca farms all over the world and ask the world...any questions? And then tell them to go stuff it!

That would be nice. I just rather we try to cut off their supplies first (actually at this point I'd settle for not giving the damn things in the first place) tactically that makes more sense.

We never had a war against the drug cartels (and we never will) We had a War on Drugs...which is about as ambiguish as it gets. A real war on drug cartels would mean waging war against the countries that coddle them or are owned by them..like Mexico. Ain't gonna happen.

Seriously they need to lose their sovereignty and national identity but no they are protected by the same set of rules we are.

(Which is hilarious since that is the same exact problem we are having as a country, "Bad guys" being protected by the laws that are supposed to be for the "good guys")

If you cannot handle what you are given responsibly you should lose it... Which should go to everything.

[MiskatonicGrad]

The answer is: no more guns exports to Mexico unless they can control the stuff.

The war against the drug cartels has failed and is a waste of money. Invading Mexico to get at somebody, as proven by the Pershing expedition to catch Pancho Villa, leads nowhere. The cartels are still singing the the song about "Our Mexico on the 23d of February". And if you know Spanish it is not the kind of song we want to hear.

holy crap I didn't think anybody else knew about the mexican punitive expedition

As for the gun control discussion: How immoral and unjust we have allowed our society to become I don't feel we can be trusted with the rights we are granted by our creator. I doubt our founders could have envisioned this country or it's people sinking so low that these massacres are almost common place and pretty much all we do is sit and watch it all unfold on TV( I wonder how the boston massacre would have been covered). we are suppose to be a free society but our moral compass is so out of whack we deserve whatever control our elected officials decided to put on us.

I'm the first one to jump to the defence of the constitution and our founders but until we address the underlying problems with this country we don't deserve what they fought and died for.

[questionmark]

holy crap I didn't think anybody else knew about the mexican punitive expedition

The dealings with Mexican sovereignty has created two taboo themes: The Mexican-American war and the Pershing expedition, but I can understand that we are not proud of either chapter.

[+joc]

holy crap I didn't think anybody else knew about the mexican punitive expedition

As for the gun control discussion: How immoral and unjust we have allowed our society to become I don't feel we can be trusted with the rights we are granted by our creator. I doubt our founders could have envisioned this country or it's people sinking so low that these massacres are almost common place and pretty much all we do is sit and watch it all unfold on TV( I wonder how the boston massacre would have been covered). we are suppose to be a free society but our moral compass is so out of whack we deserve whatever control our elected officials decided to put on us.

I'm the first one to jump to the defence of the constitution and our founders but until we address the underlying problems with this country we don't deserve what they fought and died for.

Part and parcel to the epidemic problem....we sit and watch it on TV...and on Movie Screens...not just the reporting, but the non-stop graphic violence in movies, TV shows, Video Games. We are numb and have become a very sick caricature of our on-screen lust for violence. Outlaw graphic violence in our media culture and begin punishing ...really punishing criminals that do this stuff...and you will see an end to it...don't blame the guns. The thirst for guns however is also part of the problem and it all comes from what I just said.

[RavenHawk]

I’ve been on vacation the last couple of weeks with no internet access – enjoying the beaches in Florida… I’m not going to read through the 24 pages of responses.

What happened in Connecticut is indeed tragic and the response is over blown knee-jerk stupidity.

The first thing that came to mind when I started looking at this thread was:

Ivory Coast mourns 60 killed in New Year's stampede

http://www.cnn.com/2...aths/index.html

Man Slashes 22 Children With Knife In China

http://www.inquisitr...knife-in-china/

The problem isn’t that people own guns. It’s that people fear and disrespect the use of guns. Removing the implements does not correct or ease the underlying issue of irresponsibility. Man is a killer. He will always find ways to kill. Being Apathetic and Ignorant only compounds the problem. We need to embrace that violent aspect of our natures and learn how to handle it on a personal level. That is what an Inalienable Right (*AND* Responsibility) is. No one can give or take this away. If you don’t like your neighbor having a gun, then move or get a gun yourself (and learn how to use it). Having the government try to corral the inner beast will only accomplish in agitating the situation even more. Revolution is the usual outcome. An Inalienable Right is up to the individual to exercise. It is Liberty and Freedom that is the American Identity and anything that assures that is essential to keeping it. Guns are only a small part of it.