Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide

[Vincennes]

I agree. If I was going to write a statement. I would also write it as high as I could reach. If I were doing it with paint... Yes, probably also block... but that brings about the questions.

Why would she paint that on a door when she had a computer in her bedroom.... ... and bring paint supplies to a room to do that in... in order that she could paint some mysterious statement that could not readily be understood. Hey, if it were me and I got the paint and all of that... believe me... The names would be in my message...?

Do we all feel comfortable with what she wrote. I have only found the one source.. Why was it blocked out in all photos... There are no names in it... What reason for such cover up?

Edited January 31, 2013 by Duncansmom

[+ouija ouija]

At last I've found the link to the aerial view: http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/large_lightbox/hash/db/87/SDCSD%20Evidence%20-%2002_4.jpg

The Sprekels Mansion estate comprises all the buildings with red tiled roofs. The Guest room is in the square 'annexe' tacked onto the back of the main house(you can just see the round wooden table that was beneath the balcony).

The Guest house is to the bottom left of the estate(as we are looking at it), and is at 90 degrees to the wall with the balcony in it.

The Caretaker's House is bottom right, attached to the Guest House and very close to the Guest Room and balcony.

[+ouija ouija]

Why would she paint that on a door when she had a computer in her bedroom.... ... and bring paint supplies to a room to do that in... in order that she could paint some mysterious statement that could not readily be understood. Hey, if it were me and I got the paint and all of that... believe me... The names would be in my message...?

Do we all feel comfortable with what she wrote. I have only found the one source.. Why was it blocked out in all photos... There are no names in it... What reason for such cover up?

My first thought was on reading this ^ ^ ^ that if she put something on the computer her 'audience' could be limited to just one person and, depending who that person was, be deleted. Writing on the door should be seen by a lot more people.

[Vincennes]

OMG,,,, Your thought pattern seems more than logical to me.... including why she might have wrote that message to be viewed by many... Yeah, that seems logic to me.... but that does give Rebecca control of the scene...and if she had control, she wasn't forced to commit suicide.... What think ?

As to the grounds! OMG no wonder the police got confused... I got confused just reading their report... Now, I seeing this arial and what they were up against.to identify the rooms.. I will have to go back to your questions on that....Again, good job!

Edited January 31, 2013 by Duncansmom

[+ouija ouija]

Right *composes self & puts serious face on*. Now that I've finished laughing at the first paragraph of your long post, D'sM:

The guest bedroom is attached to the main house and has the balcony.

The guest house is at 90 degrees to the 'balcony' bedroom/guest bedroom. This much I feel clear on, but what I'm not sure about is where Jonah's older children stayed(they went home the morning of the day Max had his fall). Did they use the guest room and the guest house? The abandoned panties were in the guest room so maybe the girl/girls stayed in there and the boy/boys stayed in the guest house?

Incidently, it occurs to me that these visiting older children may have been the ones playing loud music which neighbours interpreted as a 'party'(not sure which night that was).

As the older children only left that morning, I wonder if one of them wrote the cryptic message on the door? The guest room is sort of annexed, so maybe no-one went to it until after Rebecca died? No-one knew the message was already there. The room obviously hadn't been cleaned because the panties were still in the trash container after Rebecca died.

I think Jonah went to the hotel on his own and left Dina at Max's bedside.

Well done you for making both the autopsies correct by deducing that she was alive but unconscious when lifted over the balcony gently enough not to break her neck, just strangle her ........ BRILLIANT! That had me stumped.

[Vincennes]

I'm sorry to all I did go back and then just got lost in that pool of the neighbor's.... Sorry, I will resume my detective duties later..... I'm there now at that pool!

[+ouija ouija]

Well done you for making both the autopsies correct by deducing that she was alive but unconscious when lifted over the balcony gently enough not to break her neck, just strangle her ........ BRILLIANT! That had me stumped.

My first thought on waking today was: there aren't enough footprints on the balcony to account for this!

So, how does this grab you: a very long rope is attached to the leg of the bed and then thrown over the balcony by someone standing just inside the balcony doors(staying out of sight). On the ground below the balcony, a running noose is put around an unconscious Rebecca's neck and then one or two people(Adam? Nina? Jonah?), hold her up(she only weighed 100 lbs), while another, standing on the wooden table, pulls on the rope until she is off the ground ........ WHICH COULD ACCOUNT FOR THE OVER-LONG ROPE: because it was awkward to pull her up further and they also needed to be able to reach her to trim the loose end of rope by her neck. They only pulled her up as far as necessary for it to 'look right'.

[Vincennes]

My first thought this morning was going over everything I could find that might disprove your hypothesis. So far, nothing, nothing... that would disprove any part of it.... and I keep being so excited because of the little nagging questions I had during the course of this being in the news - with your theory, the answers or reasons become simple.

With Adam's help.... that could be.... and maybe why he did not pass the lie detector... but did not fail it either. It would depend on the questions that were asked of him. I really feel Jonah, himself did it. I don't see anyone else's involvement being necessary. It would be interesting to go back and see if Jonah also had a boating history.. and would know how to tie those knots but I think he could have cut the rope.. stepped one foot out and lowered her himself. He looks like a pretty good size guy... looking at her pictures, she looks to be not much over 100 lbs..

You talked about the phone records in your timeline. They never made one bit of sense to me.... and you might have already gotten this one in you timeline... but that's why there is a missing call that Jonah says he made to inform her Max was dying.... No record of that call? Now I see, He didn't make the call, he went to tell her himsellf !

Edited February 1, 2013 by Duncansmom

[Vincennes]

The only other variation that comes to me... Is that after their dinner conversation and his hostility... Rebecca set the scene up herself, knowing he was coming back at some time to sleep.... She was doing the feminine thing of "He'll see this and feel sorry at the way he has talked to me." Only he didn't feel sorry at all, he was even more angry and "helped" her carry out what she had set up to gain sympathy.... He has a history of domestic violence.... When I think of the rage this might have caused.... but that's just a slight variation.... You time line remains right on target.....

[Vincennes]

The other thing I was told.. which doesn't effect time line.... I was talking about this to a girl who had Army medic training... and then worked in Army hospitals. She said that she was told to monitor anything that you say between 3 to 4 minutes after you believe a patient to have died. Especially in cases of an abrupt wound, it can sometimes take the brain 3 to 4 minutes to die.. That's why they can bring people right back from a heart attack with no brain damage, if quick actions are taken... So Max, might indeed have said the word "Ocean" trying to tell Rebecca the dog had tripped him... I don't believe his neck was broken either... severe spine and head trauma.... Before he passsed out again totally, he got off the one word....What do you think of that possibility????

[+ouija ouija]

she looks to be not much over 100 lbs..

Now I see, He didn't make the call, he went to tell her himsellf !

I think she was mentioned as being exactly 100lbs.

Your second sentence sent chills down my spine!

The other thing I was told.. which doesn't effect time line.... I was talking about this to a girl who had Army medic training... and then worked in Army hospitals. She said that she was told to monitor anything that you say between 3 to 4 minutes after you believe a patient to have died. Especially in cases of an abrupt wound, it can sometimes take the brain 3 to 4 minutes to die.. That's why they can bring people right back from a heart attack with no brain damage, if quick actions are taken... So Max, might indeed have said the word "Ocean" trying to tell Rebecca the dog had tripped him... I don't believe his neck was broken either... severe spine and head trauma.... Before he passsed out again totally, he got off the one word....What do you think of that possibility????

That's very interesting and definitely sounds possible.

Something else which, if true, is incredibly important IMO: Anne Bremner, on the Dr Phil show said: "Rebecca has lividity, the medical condition caused when blood settles after death ....... in her BACK!! Not in her feet and legs as you would expect from hanging. This could mean two things: she had only just died when Adam cut her down(allegedly), so the lividity didn't have time to set in in her feet and legs, but rather in her back while she was lying on the grass after having been cut down, OR, she died earlier on during the night and the hanging scenario/story, was conncocted to cover this fact. I've just had another idea: if Rebecca had been hanging for some time(hours), would it be possible for her body to lie in that rather graceful position that it's in, on the grass? A somewhat rigid 'standing' position seems more likely to me.

Other little bits I discovered yesterday: Rebecca did paint as a hobby, so that explains the origins of the paint tube and brushes.

The origin of the red/orange rope has not been established.

The 911 call: At the beginning Adam says: "Yeah, I got a girl ...... she hung herself in the guest house". A girl? Rebecca was 32! (And Adam knew that because later in the call he said 'she's about 30'). She hung herself?? Is that the first thing that you would think when you saw someone hanging naked, with their ankles tied together and their wrists tied behind their back? Seriously? They did it themselves? And why does Adam say 'IN'? And why does he say 'the Guest House'?

Twice during the call he randomly says 'I just woke up', as if to emphasise this and make sure it's noticed ............ even though his bed hasn't been slept in!! Where was he sleeping then? (For a brief moment I considered the possibility of him having an affair with Nina).

During the call, Adam can be heard dragging the wooden table and it sounds like the leg breaks off then. I'm not clear as to when he cut Rebecca down(or pretended to, if she had never been hanging). The operator asks him if he's cut her down and he says 'yes'. He certainly wouldn't have been able to climb up on and stand on a three-legged table

Also, only the first part of the call has been released ...... I wish we could hear the rest!

[Vincennes]

I have just been trolling around to see if I could turn up anything interesting. Not that any of these things are of significant importance -

1) Jonah is not a chemist. I swear I always so him referred to as that but he is an attorney. Graduated BS from Colgate and Law degree from NYCU. He actually worked as an attorney for several years then came upon this Restilyn... and he put the company together with him as top dog. (This may be job related because of his product being in that cosmetic field but take a good, long look at his pictures. Jonah has had a complete face lift. In their pictures together, look at his skin next to Rebecca's - tighter? Yeah. Its most obvious on his forehead - No horizontal wrinkles at all. I'll bet all that I own. That's a brow lift.)

2) Rebecca's autopsy indicated that she had no food in her stomach ???? Don't know where all the dinner went but autopsy indicates only a few cc's of green substance ????

3) Rebecca did have many little scraps cuts etc. on her body per the autopsy that would seen to be consistent with her being slid over the railing.

4) Rebecca also had small amounts of black paint on her fingers and one or two on her hands. She also had a few spots of black paint on her boobs. So, if she did paint that note she painted it when she was naked! (I also never realized the note on the door was on the outer side of the door. Not interior on the roomside! So she would have been naked in the hallway, painting on the door!

3) Rebecca's autopsy also talks about the fact that 1) that is nautical rope. There is a yellow plastic thingamabob mixed into one of the knots indicating how much the rope can pull. Seem to be like a water-skee line.

4) The autopsy also states there is extra rope on the end of one her hand ties - Measured at 84" That's 8 ft. extra rope in a loop??

5) The autopsy also talks about the fact, and maybe I'm not reading it correctly, but it sounded to me that the noose rope was fashioned in a way that was a loop going back up to the knoting on the bed ????

6) Rebecca's autopsy alo mentions fresh drop of blood on one of her toes. I don't believe you bleed after you die. It also goes on to talk about small amount of blood in her vagina or uterus but never once calls this menses bleeding.

6) We have talked about Max seeming to be a small kid. He was 47" tall. I also checked the height of interior banister railings. OSHEA recommends 36" but they can vary as much as 6".... with 33" seeming to be the norm. That would put Max's head only about 14" above the railing. That seems to put a large doubt on the fact he could have fallen over it as is shown in that drawing.

[Vincennes]

Here's Rebecca's autopsy - the other thing I found truly interesting is the length of her autopsy compared to Max's -

http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Other/zahau,%20rebecca_report.pdf

I did find the "enire" 911 report. I'll got that... Its on YouTube - be right back !

[Vincennes]

Here's the link - It can stop on its on... Just go to replay if it does. The thing I saw about his 911 call on WebSlueths was that at one point his says something like, "that f.. king kid" Then it goes to the place that is cut out of the tape. I guess they have a transcript somewhere of the tape, I haven't found it ... but the transcript says, f....king kid, I don't believe this! but none of WS could hear that nor can I

[Vincennes]

This one is also interesting. Although I have found other statements indicating Dina didn't like Rebecca because Max did love her. Rebecca picked him up at school, took him to soccer practice but many times Dina wouldn't let her attend the games. I think it more believeable that he went over the balcony in the course of play, such as piggyback... or something.

Good find on the levity!!! I agree totally! I have to go back and look at what they at least show of the body but you are right... The picture I had came into my mind immediately that her legs are bent! It also does not fit that she was in rigor, Adam didn't notice it? Ah, cold and stiff... I'm a thinking I would notice that right off and I don't think I would have to ask, "Are you dead?" I remember a time when I was standing at the bedside of someone as they passed and how quickly that body cooled.

And the "I just woke up".... without the bed being slept in..? Good catch... I agree that's "awood"

I also did go back into Jonah a little. His domestic violence cases.... even with Dina putting on a "show" for the divorce money... seemed to relate: This guy has a temper....So he and Rebecca had had their "honeymoon" two years.... then she p***es hims off...

I did also read the cause of Max's brain damage in his autopsy was really lack of the oxygen before the medics got there. Rebecca was at least some type of surgical technician. Who would have had that training. I think... if you believe she truly loved Max, she might have even tried to start it, then he became so pale when he didn't respond, she lost it, and started rocking him and crying...

[+ouija ouija]

Not sure about Rebecca's autopsy. Can it be the real deal? It starts off with: 'date & time of death: 07/13/2011 0648' but surely that's the time Adam made the 911 call? It goes on: 'last seen alive: 07/13/11 21:50' !! How does that work ...... seen alive 15 hours after she died?

Also, were the 'dried secretions' on the hem of the t-shirt that was around Rebecca's neck, analysed?

[+ouija ouija]

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Here's the link - It can stop on its on... Just go to replay if it does. The thing I saw about his 911 call on WebSlueths was that at one point his says something like, "that f.. king kid" Then it goes to the place that is cut out of the tape. I guess they have a transcript somewhere of the tape, I haven't found it ... but the transcript says, f....king kid, I don't believe this! but none of WS could hear that nor can I

I don't think this is the entire call. I think there's part of this part missing(to say nothing of interference that spoils a lot of it), but there's apparently a lot more after this was cut off. Because the second part of the call was taken by another department, that department has decided not to make it public.

I hear him saying 'f...ing kid', but I don't hear him saying 'I just woke up'(twice), which was in the transcript that I read!

[Vincennes]

My first thought on waking today was: there aren't enough footprints on the balcony to account for this!

So, how does this grab you: a very long rope is attached to the leg of the bed and then thrown over the balcony by someone standing just inside the balcony doors(staying out of sight). On the ground below the balcony, a running noose is put around an unconscious Rebecca's neck and then one or two people(Adam? Nina? Jonah?), hold her up(she only weighed 100 lbs), while another, standing on the wooden table, pulls on the rope until she is off the ground ........ WHICH COULD ACCOUNT FOR THE OVER-LONG ROPE: because it was awkward to pull her up further and they also needed to be able to reach her to trim the loose end of rope by her neck. They only pulled her up as far as necessary for it to 'look right'.

My first thought on waking today was: there aren't enough footprints on the balcony to account for this!

So, how does this grab you: a very long rope is attached to the leg of the bed and then thrown over the balcony by someone standing just inside the balcony doors(staying out of sight). On the ground below the balcony, a running noose is put around an unconscious Rebecca's neck and then one or two people(Adam? Nina? Jonah?), hold her up(she only weighed 100 lbs), while another, standing on the wooden table, pulls on the rope until she is off the ground ........ WHICH COULD ACCOUNT FOR THE OVER-LONG ROPE: because it was awkward to pull her up further and they also needed to be able to reach her to trim the loose end of rope by her neck. They only pulled her up as far as necessary for it to 'look right'.

[Vincennes]

So, Regi.... Since you have made yourself in charge of all reports.and mistakes..... and we all know you are still checking in just in case you need to correct someone.... .. Do yathink

think 84" shown on the ORIGINALAUTOPSY>> Is long enough... File 13...

[Vincennes]

]

AND Regi: Please keep in touch...I always thought it would be so nice so just to have someone to discuss this type of thing with.... but this was my first and I regret it so much. I learned... & I learned well from you it was so not good to have someone on the detective/medical/autopsy dept. always there stating the "facts" and who THEY (Regi) had determined as unquestionable truth. Made me think how the victims must feel in these types of cases as they try to present........

A nice touch always ignore anything you don't agree with brings to any discussion and any conclusion. And, so, as I close....dear, ever so sweet sweet Regi.... I'm thinking you are mostly.........................

.................................................like the Fonzie...

...........................................................................WwhaWhwaWhaWhrrooonng.............................

PS If you lost track along time ago in Oijua's timeline....don't bother to respond... We all understand!....

Edited February 3, 2013 by Duncansmom

[Antilles]

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Here's the link - It can stop on its on... Just go to replay if it does. The thing I saw about his 911 call on WebSlueths was that at one point his says something like, "that f.. king kid" Then it goes to the place that is cut out of the tape. I guess they have a transcript somewhere of the tape, I haven't found it ... but the transcript says, f....king kid, I don't believe this! but none of WS could hear that nor can I

Thanks for posting that DM. Never heard it before. I clearly heard ****ing kid but I don't think that he's referring to Max. I think he's referring to Rebecca. I can say this much - their fire/EMS and police force need to get better co-ordinated. Address is vital, yes, but not as much as resuscitation.

All depends on how long she'd been hanging there. If she hadn't been dead for long, she'd still be warm. I'm assuming that's what the situation must have been. You wouldn't normally start CPR on a patient who's cold to the touch but you know, emotional response kicks in, try to save her.

[Vincennes]

Antilles,

I thought the same thing when he said "f...ing kid, he might have meant Rebecca but it is bothersome that the transcription added the other words after he said it - then the cut out in the tape.

I also never thought about the 911 operator not being more focused on CPR rather than the address. I totally agree with you. That is odd. I read somewhere along the way that with a hanging victim they estimate you only have 2-4 minutes to revive and 911 has him running out in front to get the address. She also never just asked whose residence it was so she could look it up while he started CPR....

[wolfknight]

Wow I miss alot not being on here all weekend. The crime was a true cover up. This case was closed real fast. I think the entire case needs to reopened and looked at again. But having money and some powerful friends that will never happen.

[wolfknight]

Hold on a second. 911 would have had address. This case has more holes than a peice of swiss cheese..

[Vincennes]

Hold on a second. 911 would have had address. This case has more holes than a peice of swiss cheese..

I'm not sure that 911 would have had the address. Maybe if Adam called from a line that was in the house, they would have had it. However, if Adam called from his own cell phone, I don't think they would. Records for that phone would show Adam's address.

What I would like to find also is so type of evidence of who could have tied those knots. Since Adam ended up working on a tug boat in Memphis, is that where the Shacknai's were originaly from? Were Jonah and Adam raised around a river. The only history I could find was Jonah's colleges, both of which were in New York. But evidently there was some nautical type rope in the house.