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Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide


Vincennes

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Struggling to keep up here! Regarding the document that some people have interpreted as meaning Xena was Rebecca's daughter: the way I understood it was that whoever wrote the document was saying, look, Xena can't make this claim because she is not Rebecca's daughter .... the only way Xena could legally do this would be if she was Rebecca's daughter('and we know she isn't' is inferred). 

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47 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

Rock,  something else just crossed my mind in relationship to the possibility of hog tying .   I know law-enforcement isn’t allowed to use that technique in itself it can cause fatalities  By way of suffocation   Would the person pass out first ?   How would that show up in an autopsy ?

Edit:   The hog tying possibility reminds me that the computer in Becky’s room had been tuned to porno But not just any porno it was oriental bondage did we have an oriental girl hogtied and violated right in front of that computer

when people suffocate they do pass out prior to death.

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19 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

Struggling to keep up here! Regarding the document that some people have interpreted as meaning Xena was Rebecca's daughter: the way I understood it was that whoever wrote the document was saying, look, Xena can't make this claim because she is not Rebecca's daughter .... the only way Xena could legally do this would be if she was Rebecca's daughter('and we know she isn't' is inferred). 

I think the question was why was there a legal document even drawn up if it was not believed true (right or wrong) by someone of the parties.

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12 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I think the question was why was there a legal document even drawn up if it was not believed true (right or wrong) by someone of the parties.

Because Xena(or her representatives), made the first move with a claim and then the document we've seen was in reply.

What difference does it make to the Spreckel's Mansion cases whether she is Rebecca's daughter or not? 

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On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:02 PM, Not A Rockstar said:

because until that guy told them, it was something only the killer would know. They should not have told the ex either, obviously.

This is with regard to the writing on the bedroom door. Why do say 'it was something only the killer would know'? I think it is impossible to know who did the writing. It could have been Jonah's daughters or, at a pinch, Xena ...... or someone who hasn't even been mentioned yet!

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On ‎14‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 11:55 AM, Vincennes said:

With regard to the article in this link: the expert claimed that Rebecca could have been decapitated by her fall over the balcony, which sounded overly dramatic, but I have just learned yesterday that there is something called internal decapitation which means the neck is completely broken and the spinal cord too, but the skin and muscle etc aren't so the head does not come apart from the body.

Also, the width of the balcony from the French window to the railings is a little over 2' so I think it's unlikely that as Rebecca dropped she would bang her head against the wall. This was suggested as a reason for the four abrasions on her head, one of which is quite big. 

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20 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

Because Xena(or her representatives), made the first move with a claim and then the document we've seen was in reply.

What difference does it make to the Spreckel's Mansion cases whether she is Rebecca's daughter or not? 

 I think the difference would have been Zena would have a separate and greater cause of action (due money) if this was her mother and Jonah or Dina for that matter was held responsible for her death.  

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42 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

when people suffocate they do pass out prior to death.

 I’m expanding that then to mean there would be suffocation without injury to the neck such as bruises showing strangulation 

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On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 9:05 AM, susieice said:

In this video, the doctor who was caring for Max in hospital states that there wasn't a sudden deterioration in his health.

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Just now, ouija ouija said:

In this video, the doctor who was caring for Max in hospital states that there wasn't a sudden deterioration in his health.

I remember seeing where his doctor said it was always bad. He was answering about the results of the CT scan.

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49 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

Because Xena(or her representatives), made the first move with a claim and then the document we've seen was in reply.

What difference does it make to the Spreckel's Mansion cases whether she is Rebecca's daughter or not? 

It may explain why Dina was so insistent that Max not be alone with Rebecca and one of her kin, if this was a believed relationship (as in if her daughter is there she won't be as attentive to my son). It may explain why Xena was sent out so fast by Rebecca. It may explain the credit card binge on Xena the day after Max's fall, I have my wonderings about those things. If Xena thinks of Rebecca as her Mom might she lie or not tell things that could cast some doubt on her? 

Now, are we limiting the discussion to things which ONLY directly affect the case itself? And is that strictly only Rebecca's death? Or is Max still around? And how do we decide what directly applies, exactly? 

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52 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

This is with regard to the writing on the bedroom door. Why do say 'it was something only the killer would know'? I think it is impossible to know who did the writing. It could have been Jonah's daughters or, at a pinch, Xena ...... or someone who hasn't even been mentioned yet!

I wrote that in reply to Vince asking why the police did not release it to the public.

 

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On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 11:31 AM, Vincennes said:

 

I'm wondering too if that's just a recreation of the scratches on the bannister.  If you look at the photo of the room the actual rail is unpainted, brown wood.  In this photo it's painted white and is something pieced together, not one solid piece of wood.  Or am I looking at it wrong ?

I think the photos of the banister stripped back to the wood are estate agent photos taken when the mansion was put up for sale.

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On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 3:48 PM, susieice said:

You are right Vincennes. Couldn't sleep last night and was on UM. The top of the banister in the house is brown. That can't be an actual photo. I think it came from websleuths.  All the old links put Max on the scooter when this happened. Couldn't find a pic showing the chandelier from the opposite direction, but you can see it's pretty far out although it hangs down. Dina really questioned how Max could have gone over the banister because of his size. He just wasn't tall enough.

I think it's possible Max climbed onto the banister and, sitting astride it, tried to hook the chandelier towards him with the scooter. Maybe it was at this point that the dog jumped at him?

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On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:36 PM, susieice said:

Thinking the same thing Vincennes. Xena and Max may have been rough housing and that's what Rebecca was hiding. It was in the custody agreement between Jonah and Dina that Max could not be left with Rebecca alone if her family was there and Rebecca could not take Max out of the state. She had good reason not to fully trust Rebecca. She started an organization I linked to earlier to help other parents when a third person becomes involved with the care of a child in a custody agreement.

But this means that Jonah broke the custody agreement because he went off to the gym and left Max with Rebecca and Xena ...... unless there was someone else there as well. Who could that have been?

I wonder if Dina really did have a good reason not to trust Rebecca or was she simply behaving like most ex-wives who can't bear the thought of their child possibly enjoying time with the new woman in their husband's life? 

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On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 0:21 PM, Vincennes said:

Yesterday's San Diego Tribune article: 

 

To sheriff’s investigators, the messages found on Rebecca Zahau’s cellphone after her bizarre hanging death at a Coronado mansion painted the picture of a troubled woman.

In the notes, Zahau described being disrespected by her boyfriend’s two older children and hated by his two ex-wives. She laments not having children of her own.

“I find myself not being able to sleep for the first time in my entire life… now when I close my eyes my mind begins to race… thinking and brewing over many situations and trying to come up with a solution of some sort,” one of the messages read. “… if I am not thinking, I am crying.”

Another message said, “No amount of money is worth what I’m going through.”

 

During her testimony in San Diego Superior Court, Det. Angela Tsuida, who led the sheriff’s homicide team that investigated Zahau’s death, said the messages were one of many pieces of evidence that led authorities to declare the death a suicide.

“It gives us a picture of her mindset at the time… she wasn’t happy,” Tsuida said .

Zahau was found dead, bound in ropes and hanging from a balcony on July 13, 2011.

Sheriff’s investigators and the Medical Examiner’s Office ultimately determined that she had taken her own life. But Zahau’s family members have long contended that she, a woman of strong Christian faith, would never commit suicide.

 

The family filed a wrongful death lawsuit, accusing Adam Shacknai — the brother of Zahau’s boyfriend, pharmaceuticals tycoon Jonah Shacknai — of killing her.

On Thursday, attorney C. Keith Greer, who represents the Zahau family, rejected the notion that the cellphone messages meant Zahau was suicidal.

He also questioned other observations that investigators included in their determination that she died by her own hand, including that Zahau had been molested as a child.

Two days before Zahau’s death, the 32-year-old surgical technician was the only adult at the mansion when her boyfriend’s son, 6-year-old Max Shacknai, fell from the second floor into the foyer.

He died several days later. The child was the son Jonah Shacknai and his ex-wife Dina Shacknai.

Authorities suggested Zahau felt deep remorse after Max’s death.

Tsuida testified that Jonah Shacknai told investigators he left a phone message for Zahau the evening before her death, saying his son was brain dead and that he would have to decide whether to donate his organs.

Zahau’s sister, Mary Zahau-Loehner, had said previously that she didn’t believe Jonah Shacknai left such a dire message. Greer pointed out during cross-examination of Tsuida that sheriff’s investigators never retrieved the message, which had been deleted from Zahau’s phone.

The attorney also noted that investigators never tested the phone for fingerprints, making it difficult to determine who handled the phone when the message was received.

The family alleges in their lawsuit that Adam Shacknai struck Zahau on the head, strangled her and stripped her naked before tying her up and tossing her off a balcony with a noose around her neck.

Shacknai’s attorney, Dan Webb, said in opening statements that no evidence connects his 54-year-old client to the death.

On Thursday, Tsuida talked in detail about what sheriff’s officials have said was lack of evidence pointing to homicide in this case. She said investigators analyzed areas that would have been touched in the moments leading to Zahau’s death.

While Zahau’s DNA and fingerprints were found on the ropes, the bed and other areas in the room off the balcony she was eventually found hanging from, Adam Shacknai’s DNA was not .

Little to no DNA evidence was recovered from the knife Shacknai said he used to cut down Zahau’s body, the paint brushes thought to have been used to scrawl a mysterious message on the door of the room or the balcony doors.

Tsuida said no single piece of evidence led investigators to determine Zahau’s death was a suicide.

She said, "We take every thing into consideration."  

Good heavens! if everyone who felt this low went on to kill themselves there'd be no one left in the world! Committing suicide is a huge thing to do and even those who seriously contemplate it rarely follow through.

'Little to no DNA was recovered from the knife Shacknai said he used to cut down Rebecca's body' ..... why not? Wouldn't cutting through that type of rope take quite a bit of effort and pressure?

In Adam's call to the police after finding Rebecca, he says ' ....... I have a girl here'. A GIRL? She was 32! That really jarred with me.

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31 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

But this means that Jonah broke the custody agreement because he went off to the gym and left Max with Rebecca and Xena ...... unless there was someone else there as well. Who could that have been?

I wonder if Dina really did have a good reason not to trust Rebecca or was she simply behaving like most ex-wives who can't bear the thought of their child possibly enjoying time with the new woman in their husband's life? 

Jonah did break his custody agreement. The assumption is that no one else was there. Rebecca had told some tales to Dina, who researched her. Dina found out about the shoplifting arrest and that Rebecca was still married. 

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On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 3:46 PM, susieice said:

In this video there are diagrams of the marks on Rebecca's head and neck.  On the left side of her neck there is just one solid line and on the right side there are several 'smudged' broken lines roughly in this shape: ^. This suggests to me that the knot in the rope was on the right side of her head and that her head would tilt down slightly to the left. The four marks near the top of her head are on the same side as the knot, which suggests to me that they are unlikely to have been caused by bumping against the wall, which is what the police have said happened.

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16 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

In this video there are diagrams of the marks on Rebecca's head and neck.  On the left side of her neck there is just one solid line and on the right side there are several 'smudged' broken lines roughly in this shape: ^. This suggests to me that the knot in the rope was on the right side of her head and that her head would tilt down slightly to the left. The four marks near the top of her head are on the same side as the knot, which suggests to me that they are unlikely to have been caused by bumping against the wall, which is what the police have said happened.

I think I recall that the knot was on the right side. I don't know about her bumping against the wall without abrasions. The house is stucco or appears to be some type of texture paint. 

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This is an article showing the rooms in the Spreckel mansion after it was remodeled. It has excellent pictures of the balcony, which is still there. This one is sideways. Not a lot of room between the outer rail and the wall.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/multimedia/Inside-the-Spreckels-Masion-207777301.html

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The picture, of course, couldn't link right. Scroll through. There are several good ones.

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18 hours ago, susieice said:

Again, why does he say 'I got a girl hung herself in the guest house'? Rebecca was not in the guest house, she was hanging from a balcony! Plus, he's running to get a knife from the kitchen, dragging a table to stand on and cutting Rebecca down during the 911 call!!!!!!  I always understood he claimed to have come out of the guest house, saw Rebecca hanging and ran to the kitchen, got the knife and cut her down and then dialled 911. Thirdly, he says in the call 'I just woke up' ..... I thought he'd been watching porn immediately before leaving the guest house?

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15 minutes ago, susieice said:

This is an article showing the rooms in the Spreckel mansion after it was remodeled. It has excellent pictures of the balcony, which is still there. This one is sideways. Not a lot of room between the outer rail and the wall.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/multimedia/Inside-the-Spreckels-Masion-207777301.html

It's certainly a beautiful house but I wonder if anyone would want to live there given that two tragic deaths happened there.

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Most of that call has never been made public. The links we have do say Adam left the guesthouse to go to the main house and saw Rebecca hanging. He cut her down and called 911. Why is he acting like he doesn't know her name? 

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1 minute ago, ouija ouija said:

It's certainly a beautiful house but I wonder if anyone would want to live there given that two tragic deaths happened there.

The sales price was reduced by several million dollars. Adam sold it a year after the deaths. I guess it's been remodeled and is for sale again.

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