Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide

[+Not A Rockstar]

well there have been claims that in that wicca book it tells about how to tie yourself up (I want no part of a religion which takes this talent as being core enough to put in their bible if true!) so my question is DID IT USE THE SAME KNOTS? (or technique she used to do it)

If so, it is evidence worth noting. If not, then this is spurious to list as being taken as evidence.

[+susieice]

Like I said, if Rebecca went boating with Jonah she may have known how to tie a knot.

[+Not A Rockstar]

Further, they mention that Maid movie as being a duplicate suicide. Does it show the girl tying herself up like they say Rebecca did? Does she use those knots? If not, why say this? It is said in the movie the girl also left her hair under the noose. 

Maybe they are keeping some of this in case it goes to criminal court. I just wonder why we are not hearing more of these details. Maybe I am thinking wrongly as I worked criminal not civil. Maybe they do not need to, only show Adam was not a player in it.

 

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Further, they mention that Maid movie as being a duplicate suicide. Does it show the girl tying herself up like they say Rebecca did? Does she use those knots? If not, why say this? It is said in the movie the girl also left her hair under the noose. 

Maybe they are keeping some of this in case it goes to criminal court. I just wonder why we are not hearing more of these details. Maybe I am thinking wrongly as I worked criminal not civil. Maybe they do not need to, only show Adam was not a player in it.

 

You need to see the look Zahaus' attorney gave his partner as he was talking to her after Adam's testimony. He looked like he puffed his cheeks, crossed his eyes, and blew out his breath. He knows this knot testimony could come into question and may not work the way he wants it to.

[+Not A Rockstar]

the knots are all they have and they cannot explain how he allegedly did all that tying and hitting and dragging of her and did not leave DNA... everything got wiped down except her prints, too. That is amazing.

[+Not A Rockstar]

the problem with the manikin knotting is that because it was done by someone else the knots were backwards. 

think about that.

[+susieice]

4 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

the knots are all they have and they cannot explain how he allegedly did all that tying and hitting and dragging of her and did not leave DNA... everything got wiped down except her prints, too. That is amazing.

The part in the autopsy that mentions the water sport type rope also notes a speck of black paint.

[+Not A Rockstar]

In court, shown by the expert I mean. Backwards. 

helloooooo :/

 

[+susieice]

2 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

the problem with the manikin knotting is that because it was done by someone else the knots were backwards. 

think about that.

Hope that one gets caught. Still wonder how she hopped out on that balcony with her feet tied together and didn't fall over. She couldn't use her hands to keep her balance. Unless she didn't bind them until she was out on it? I posted where the mansion is now up for sale a few pages back. It has excellent pictures of the balcony, which isn't that big.

Edited March 22, 2018 by susieice

[+Not A Rockstar]

2 minutes ago, susieice said:

Hope that one gets caught.

I only know it because it was remarked in the trial, so I hope the jury got it real plain, too.

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I only know it because it was remarked in the trial, so I hope the jury got it real plain, too.

Editted my post while you were quoting. I'm sorry. I do that all the time as I get afterthoughts. Reread it.

[+Not A Rockstar]

7 minutes ago, susieice said:

Hope that one gets caught. Still wonder how she hopped out on that balcony with her feet tied together and didn't fall over. She couldn't use her hands to keep her balance. Unless she didn't bind them until she was out on it? I posted where the mansion is now up for sale a few pages back. It has excellent pictures of the balcony, which isn't that big.

lol I deleted a sentence about what if she tied her ankles out there and then did her wrists. Maybe during her earlier years she was good at this? Maybe bondage was common in one of her past relationships? No way to know. 

It seems crazy but is it any stranger than believing a man did all this, got her out there and over the railing and left no DNA, no hand grip bruises on her body, and no foot prints? If he did how did he get her to stand in the one spot she left those prints on the floor for him? If she was awake she'd have struggled. If she was unconscious, she'd have gone down unless he was right there, supporting her limp body.

This is all just speculation, of course. Just thinking about the one set of prints on that balcony is all. Even the cops thought murder at first until the details forced them to see it otherwise. This is a tough case.

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, Not A Rockstar said:

lol I deleted a sentence about what if she tied her ankles out there and then did her wrists. Maybe during her earlier years she was good at this? Maybe bondage was common in one of her past relationships? No way to know. 

It seems crazy but is it any stranger than believing a man did all this, got her out there and over the railing and left no DNA, no hand grip bruises on her body, and no foot prints? If he did how did he get her to stand in the one spot she left those prints on the floor for him? If she was awake she'd have struggled. If she was unconscious, she'd have gone down unless he was right there, supporting her limp body.

This is all just speculation, of course. Just thinking about the one set of prints on that balcony is all. Even the cops thought murder at first until the details forced them to see it otherwise. This is a tough case.

The distance between the doorway to the balcony to the rail isn't really that far. The balcony is not that big. That link shows it from several angles. Was that doorway opened or closed. Need to look at pics again to see if they opened outward or inward. If they open outward, she could have closed them by reaching behind herself.

[+Not A Rockstar]

Just read his autopsy and do not see any mention of plant material so that seems unfounded about Max. 

So many unfounded details in this case. 

[+Not A Rockstar]

The saddest thing about this case is how extreme both sides are.

It is a tragedy. No matter what the truth is.

[+susieice]

So hard for Rebecca's family to accept she would do something like that. 

So hard for Dina to accept what happened to Max.

So hard on Jonah. Both of them.

[+susieice]

It's so sad that Rebecca felt that was her only way out.

[+ouija ouija]

Good evening, Susie . What has made you believe Rebecca took her own life? I can't see how it could be anything else other than murder! My money is still on one or more of Adam, Nina and Joseph OR ..... some one who hasn't been suspected/named yet. What made me consider the possibility of a complete 'outsider' was something that Adam said. He said, after he saw Rebecca hanging and he dashed to the kitchen to get a knife to cut the rope with, 'The door was open'. If the door was open all night it would allow anyone to get in and murder Rebecca. Was the door left open when everyone was out during the evening, in which case somebody could have entered the house then ...... Nina could have got in later on.

Random thoughts from looking through the many links recently supplied: I wonder if the police ever tried to find out where the red/orange rope came from? Was Jonah questioned about it? If anyone would know whether or not it had been on the property, he would, surely? 

Apparently Adam said he stayed around long enough to go to Max's funeral.

When Adam phoned Jonah to tell him Rebecca was dead, he didn't tell him how she died which seems a little odd to me. If you were in Jonah's place, wouldn't the first thing you'd say be 'How? What happened?!'

I was reading the autopsy report for Rebecca and it mentioned blood on her hands feet and thighs ...... I would like to know if it was all her blood or partly/all someone else's.

The footprints on the balcony could have been made at any time ..... they certainly don't prove that Rebecca stood on the balcony and tipped herself over the railings(which I still believe is impossible to do). The footprints may have been made by someone else entirely. I would love to know what Jonah's daughters said when/if they were asked what they got up to during their stay at the mansion. Did they go in the balcony bedroom at all? Were they the ones who wrote and scribbled on the door?

I find the current 'trial' infuriating, what with Adam and his 'I don't recall. I don't recall. I don't recall' and the fact that he knows he won't have to face justice whatever the findings. I wish it had been a much more open, farther reaching exercise, the aim of which was to find out the truth rather than focussing on one person.     

[+susieice]

You have to listen to the testimony Ouija Ouija. I didn't mean to upset Vincennes, but the testimony is pretty clear that Adam didn't do this. I believe what happened had a lot to do with what happened in that second floor hallway between Xena and Max. The rope expert said because he tied the mannequin, the knots were backwards. That alone would or should stick out to the jury. There's every indication that Rebecca could have done this herself. I feel terrible that she would see that as her only way out of her situation.

 I feel Rebecca was under tremendous pressure for money. Both from her family and possibly from her ex. Then something happened to Max. And then, she finds out Max isn't going to survive.

It's hard to tell, but I think even the attorneys know there's a good chance they aren't going to win this case.

[+susieice]

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying from all I'm seeing and hearing, this side of the story is falling together.

[+ouija ouija]

I agree, the prosecution will not win the case because they made it so limited. They won't be able to prove that Adam murdered Rebecca but that doesn't mean to say that he didn't or he and someone else didn't or someone else on their own didn't. I did listen to the testimony. The rope expert was giving a demonstration, that's all ...... it doesn't mean that what he demonstrated actually happened, neither does it prove Rebecca tied the ropes herself.   

[+susieice]

If the demonstration showed that someone else tying the ropes reversed the knots, that's pretty powerful evidence. You need to read back through the thread. I posted everything that made me think in it. I just have serious doubt now that Adam did this. I feel worse for Rebecca than I ever did.

[+Not A Rockstar]

32 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

If the door was open all night it would allow anyone to get in and murder Rebecca. Was the door left open when everyone was out during the evening, in which case somebody could have entered the house then ...... Nina could have got in later on. 

I remember way back in one of the early posts here Rebecca quoted as telling someone she never locked the doors there, it was so safe. That struck me then as awfully naïve of the world to think so. 

[+susieice]

It's quite a change when you go from being an assistant in an eye center and the wife of a med student to being the partner of a multi-billionaire. It's like hitting big in the lottery. Everyone comes after you. If I ever won a lottery I think I'd leave the country and find somewhere where I could have some space and peace. That's not even to mention the additional pressure of what happened to Max. Rebecca found herself in an extremely bad position.

[+ouija ouija]

On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 0:04 AM, susieice said:

He did say he may have seen one of the knots mentioned on one of the tests. That wouldn't be unusual. He said no one on the riverboats ever used it or mentioned it. None of the knots were used on the river. He never heard anyone mention them.

When Adam first started out I bet he was taught how to do two or three knots.
.

On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 1:04 AM, Vincennes said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong.  How do you think he got to his specialty.  He got there because he was the best of all that he needed to know along the way.  Including what knots work best in what suture materials and in what placement.  He didn't just POOF into vascular....

I understand what you're saying Vincennes. When Adam started out 28yrs ago I bet he used basic knots. 

On ‎21‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 0:30 PM, regi said:

The multiple wrappings around the limbs are what I find excessive.

It's a ski rope cut into three sections. (See autopsy report, starting at bottom section of p. 8.)

http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Other/zahau, rebecca_report.pdf

To me, the excessive wrapping of rope suggests someone other than Rebecca did it. Whoever did it wanted to make sure it didn't come undone or loosen.

Although the rope was in three pieces when the police arrived at the scene, it doesn't mean that it wasn't just two pieces when she was hanging i.e. hog-tied.