Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide

[+Not A Rockstar]

1 hour ago, susieice said:

It's quite a change when you go from being an assistant in an eye center and the wife of a med student to being the partner of a multi-billionaire. It's like hitting big in the lottery. Everyone comes after you. If I ever won a lottery I think I'd leave the country and find somewhere where I could have some space and peace. That's not even to mention the additional pressure of what happened to Max. Rebecca found herself in an extremely bad position.

well, if you do hit it big I hope you remember your good pal, Not A Rockstar, lmao.  Seriously, I think everyone wanted some of her :/

[Regi]

Also available at link is video from Jonah Shacknai's trial testimony from today.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/37785775/mansion-death-lawsuit-jonah-shacknai-takes-the-stand

 

[+susieice]

Jonah's testimony is also in two parts. Here's part 2. Altogether he was on the stand for at least 2 hours.

http://www.cbs8.com/clip/14218347/jonahshacknaitakes-the-stand-in-wrongful-death-lawsuit-of-rebeccazahau-part-two

[+susieice]

You can't make this stuff up 

[Regi]

I felt sympathy for Adam when he testified- that he even had to testify in the first place, but Jonah's testimony was absolutely heartwrenching to hear and watch him have to go through.

And ended on cross with a sustained objection... Seriously, I found Greer's approach to be- I'm not even sure of the right word- slimy(?).

Anyway, I certainly found the testimony to be very enlightening.

Re: that the rope was kept in the garage, I'd figured that that's where it likely came from and so for me, that was confirmed (not that I needed it to be confirmed, just nice to hear it stated), but I've come across info in a search warrant that I hadn't before paid attention to that's very interesting when correlated with Nina's info. from the radio show.

Nina had said that when she'd walked over to the house that night, the car was in the driveway, but in the warrant, it's stated that the car was in the garage. 

Now, Nina couldn't be sure of the color of the car Zahau had been driving- she'd described it as brownish, champagne-ish while the officer described it as a white, but surely it's the same car, which shows not only that the car was moved sometime after 10:00pm, but also that Zahau had been in the garage sometime after Nina had come by.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

Edited March 23, 2018 by regi

[+susieice]

Rebecca knew her relationship with Jonah rested on what happened over the summer. The visit with his older kids that ended the day of Max's "accident" was most likely a complete fiasco. Somebody took it out on Max. Rebecca knew when she got the voicemail that night from Jonah, his testimony relates what he told her, she was gone. Maybe as soon as when Jonah got back home.

Now I think the Zahaus dropped Dina from the lawsuit because they were afraid she'd countersue. That would have reopened Max's case.

[Regi]

On 3/22/2018 at 0:53 AM, Not A Rockstar said:

well there have been claims that in that wicca book it tells about how to tie yourself up (I want no part of a religion which takes this talent as being core enough to put in their bible if true!) so my question is DID IT USE THE SAME KNOTS? (or technique she used to do it)

If so, it is evidence worth noting. If not, then this is spurious to list as being taken as evidence.

 

I've skimmed through the text of that particular book, but right off the bat, my impression is that symbolism is a major component of the Wicca belief system. There's a ritual- with an accompanying chant- for virtually any scenario, rituals which are usually performed in the nude while preferably outdoors. There are also rituals involving the use of cords, the belief being that emotions can be stored in knots.

[+Not A Rockstar]

I suspect it is not in there, a diagram of knotting one's self as she did, and this is a spurious thing to even mention as evidence of her suicide.

Maybe circumstantial if piled on other points, like the film. 

Mind you, I lean more heavily to suicide than murder, but, not sure this Buckland book proves more than light taste in reading material.

[Regi]

14 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Maybe circumstantial if piled on other points, like the film.

I don't know anything about any film, but whatever it is, it doesn't matter to me.

[+Not A Rockstar]

2 minutes ago, regi said:

I don't know anything about any film, but whatever it is, it doesn't matter to me.

it is obscure, I saw it listed as taken in as evidence. Some Maid movie in which the heroine commits suicide the same way allegedly. idk.

this is just a sad case and nobody wins. No matter what, nobody wins.

[+susieice]

Very sad case involving a child.

[+Not A Rockstar]

10 minutes ago, susieice said:

Very sad case involving a child.

this is the saddest aspect of this mess to me, I feel Max has been all but forgotten under the drama.

[+susieice]

25 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

this is the saddest aspect of this mess to me, I feel Max has been all but forgotten under the drama.

He has been forgotten and imho, he was the one who was really wronged. 

[+ouija ouija]

Max won't be forgotten by the ones who meant the most to him and that's what matters.

I think it's highly unlikely that Rebecca(or Xena for that matter), was a direct, or even indirect cause of Max's death. I think the most likely scenario is that he took advantage of being on his own for 10mns to do something he knew he shouldn't. If Xena had been involved in any way, the police would have got that information out of her quite quickly.

I listened to the 2hrs of Jonah's questioning and the only thing that caught my interest was the mention of Xena staying in the third floor bedroom where Rebecca kept her art materials. I think it's a possibility that the writing and scribbling on the bedroom door was done by Jonah's children and/or Xena.

It doesn't matter how many points are made for Rebecca's death being suicide, or how forcefully the case is made to absolve Adam, Jonah etc from being involved, the fact remains that it would be impossible for Rebecca to kill herself in that manner.

[+Not A Rockstar]

As I see no proof of murder, it has to be possible, Ouija, and until I see it, that is where my opinion falls. I came into this whole topic believing it was murder and my opinion has changed. 

I am open to more evidence, but, doubt more will come to light at this point and it will remain a smoky case. 

[+susieice]

I haven't seen evidence of murder either. I do think that Adam couldn't have done this and not leave something behind. He isn't an experienced killer. He was an upset uncle that would have acted in anger. If there were no fingerprints, such elaborate staging and she was put over the balcony railing leaving only one set of footprints (hers) then this was done by someone who knew exactly how to do what they were doing. Not a hint of a clue left behind. 

What I find impossible is Max going over that banister the way they say he did.

Edited March 24, 2018 by susieice

[Regi]

13 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

it is obscure, I saw it listed as taken in as evidence. Some Maid movie in which the heroine commits suicide the same way allegedly. idk.

 I think The Housemaid must be that movie. It's a remake released in May, 2010.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Housemaid_(2010_film)

14 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

. Mind you, I lean more heavily to suicide than murder, but, not sure this Buckland book proves more than light taste in reading material.

I want to clarify that although my opinion has always been suicide, I didn't/don't consider that book as confirmation and/or proof of suicide, not even proof that Zahau was a Wiccan, but from my perspective, I think the presence of the book surely suggests an interest and so I think it also offers a possible explanation for the unusual aspects of the death/scene.

15 hours ago, regi said:

I've skimmed through the text of that particular book, but right off the bat, my impression is that symbolism is a major component of the Wicca belief system. There's a ritual- with an accompanying chant- for virtually any scenario, rituals which are usually performed in the nude while preferably outdoors. There are also rituals involving the use of cords, the belief being that emotions can be stored in knots.

Corrections: 1) There are rituals, but there are also spells, and the use of cords would be a spell, not a ritual. 2) Thoughts can also be contained in a knot and thought(s) or whatever energy can be released when the knot is untied.

[+Not A Rockstar]

@regi I think we see this much pretty well eye to eye.

Circumstantial support for the suicide position but nothing convincing. It is interesting, but not each item by itself, is how I see it. Just because she was less religious than her family supposes, perhaps, does not mean she did not have spirituality and perhaps she did read Buckland's book along her way of determining how she saw the world and the Divine. I don't know. IF the movie suicide is actually the same, as they claim, that is pretty huge. I have not watched the film to know, though.

What you have shared about the knot magic in the book doesn't surprise me, actually. A popular Madonna is Mary Undoer of Knots and harkens to the same sympathetic magic sort of idea even in Catholicism. It is a popular motif in "magic" or prayer forms these days. I think to link that to her bindings in this sad event might be taking it too far by the police in this case, however. 

So, yeah, we are seeing this pretty much the same :). Hope you are enjoying your Saturday.

[Regi]

1 hour ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Circumstantial support for the suicide position but nothing convincing.

No, not evidence to show it's suicide, but information which could possibly offer some sort of an explanation as to why nude, why such a message, why the binding of the hands and feet, why a gag...

1 hour ago, Not A Rockstar said:

 IF the movie suicide is actually the same, as they claim, that is pretty huge. I have not watched the film to know, though.

Well I read the plot section at that link and so I don't know understand the reason anyone could think there's any connection to this case.

1 hour ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Hope you are enjoying your Saturday.

Thank you, I am, and I hope you are, too.

[+Not A Rockstar]

2 minutes ago, regi said:

Well I read the plot section at that link and so I don't know understand the reason anyone could think there's any connection to this case.

Supposedly the girl in the film kills herself the same way, tied up and hung. This, I do not know, as I have not cared to watch the fool thing. But this is what I have heard about it.

[Regi]

1 minute ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Supposedly the girl in the film kills herself the same way, tied up and hung. This, I do not know, as I have not cared to watch the fool thing. But this is what I have heard about it.

There was no mention of tying, but she'd called people in to the room to watch her as she hanged herself and then set herself on fire.

[+Not A Rockstar]

11 minutes ago, regi said:

There was no mention of tying, but she'd called people in to the room to watch her as she hanged herself and then set herself on fire.

a lie, then. 

I base my vote for suicide because there is no evidence to support murder. Now these other circumstantial items prove wrong, that is just as well. 

[Regi]

34 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

a lie, then. 

Yeah, that she was tied isn't true. I found the movie on YouTube and watched the ending where the young woman put a noose over her head and then climbed over a balcony railing. (As for setting herself on fire, it wasn't clear to me how that happened.

Perhaps needless to say, it does appear to be an exceptionally bizarre movie.

[+Not A Rockstar]

26 minutes ago, regi said:

Yeah, that she was tied isn't true. I found the movie on YouTube and watched the ending where the young woman put a noose over her head and then climbed over a balcony railing. (As for setting herself on fire, it wasn't clear to me how that happened.

Perhaps needless to say, it does appear to be an exceptionally bizarre movie.

yeah what I did hear about it it should have been her employer dangling lol, but that's another topic

[Regi]

On 3/24/2018 at 10:09 PM, Not A Rockstar said:

yeah what I did hear about it it should have been her employer dangling lol, but that's another topic

Oh, that man was a smug, self indulgent, ungrateful ass who used his position of power to get what he wanted from a naive young woman, and I know that because I decided to watch the movie!

Yeah, I realized that although the hanging scene didn't involve any sort of tying, there may have been another scene that did and so I decided to watch it (first thing yesterday morn, very early, which for me, made for an odd time to watch any movie) and you know what? Apart from the last two scenes (btw, the hanging actually wasn't the last scene), the rest of the movie isn't at all bizarre. I actually really liked it; it was very well made and well acted, just very well done all around.

Now, I say that having watched it without the benefit of subtitles, so obviously, I could only imagine the dialogue, but it actually wasn't hard to identify the characters and get the gist of what was going on between them just by watching. Still, since I liked the movie so much, I plan on watching it with the subtitles because there definitely were scenes where I need know the dialogue before I could fully understand the characters to help accurately interpret the conclusion, which regardless, will still be left up to interpretation.

Anyway, no, the only scene where there was tying of any kind was when a maid tied the man's shoelaces.

Besides that, though, I can certainly understand why the movie would have come up in the discussion of this case with so many common elements, I mean, there's a wealthy older man involved with younger woman who's financially dependent on him, there's a mansion, an accident involving a balcony, a chandelier, and a hanging...

Here's a review of the movie with which I totally agree.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by regi