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Vincennes

Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide

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susieice

I keep editing as I find more and people are posting at the same time. Don't want to get confusing. That Forbes article also has in it a vid done by police as to how someone can tie their own hands behind their backs. You need to go into all the links shown in blue because they all lead to more info.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/09/06/billionaires-girlfriends-last-note-inconsistent-with-suicide/

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html - this woman is tying her hands in front of her. Many reports say Rebecca's hands were tied behind her back.

Edited by susieice
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Vincennes

I keep editing as I find more and people are posting at the same time. Don't want to get confusing. That Forbes article also has in it a vid done by police as to how someone can tie their own hands behind their backs. You need to go into all the links shown in blue because they all lead to more info.

http://www.forbes.co...t-with-suicide/

http://www.sdsheriff...nado/index.html - this woman is tying her hands in front of her. Many reports say Rebecca's hands were tied behind her back.

Then she put the gag in her mouth ---go back to Adams' 911 call re. removing it. She did all of that and didn't gag herself while hopping to the door ????????????

She was a darn good hopper and she nailed that landing on one toe just like a gymnast in the Olympics. Then she did an aerial that defies gravity. All the time keeping the gag in her mouth that Adam admitted to retrieving.

I'm sorry no disrespect to your post. This girl just did not do this to herself. She did love Jonah.... That is in her diary. He didn't love her is also there.

Edited by Vincennes
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susieice

No disrespect noted. I agree with you. This girl was athletic but no one is that good. If you looked at the autopsy pic she had numerous abrasions on her legs. Did you see the pic that showed how her ankles were tied? I remember seeing somewhere in these many links that her hands were behind her back. Will look again. How could she have possibly done all this?

Yes, they were behind her back. Impossible! How could she wrap rope around her wrists and neatly tie knots with her hands behind her back? Post 276, second link is the Sheriff's Dept.'s video. Some of the evidence of how they showed this was suicide. Not even an accurate portrayal.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahau-autopsy-raises-questions/story?id=14451270

Edited by susieice
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Vincennes

Her legs were tied so that they could only be moved apart 2", her hands were tied behind her back, and she had a tee-shirt stuffed in her mouth, the gag Adam referred to in his 911 call. Her hands and feet were tied with nautical rope in nautical knots...accomplished nautical knots. I have always wanted to scream the question at someone. DID THEY SKI.....DID THEY HAVE A BOAT ?????????????? Nah, I have never seen anyone broach that question even............ as they were bowing backwards out the door facing toward Jonah.....

Sorry, that last just burst forth from my fingers....

Edited by Vincennes
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susieice

And I have to add, this was a beach front home. I could entertain the thought that it could be possible someone from the outside came in, killed the kid, and then the girlfriend days later. Rebecca was alone in that big house with Max and it's probable she wasn't right there with him. She found him. Then this happens to her and one strange note is painted on a door. Wonder if Jonah had any enemies... business, personal or whatever that may have wanted to hurt him. Competitors maybe? Possible ransom attempt with the boy? Why would someone want to hurt his son? There's no doubt in my mind, someone did this. I'm starting to sound like someone else in here, but with all I've looked at in the last couple days, I just don't see this as a random series of tragic events.

Edited by susieice

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Vincennes

It wasn't quite a "beach front" home. Probably better than that, bigger at least, it was crossed the street from the beach. Someone could have come into the house, it was big enough but Rebecca was not alone. Her sister, 15, had just flown in that day to visit for a couple of weeks. She was there with Max and her sister The sister was reported to have been upstairs at the 2nd floor (there were 3) taking a shower when Max fell and yet her sister was here with Rebecca, dressed and ready not reported to be even wet by the time Max hit the floor. The sister was the one who made the 911 call with R. in the background.

Why the difference in where the sister was ? I think she was part of a play that sent poor little Max over the rail and I do think it was play..... I think R paid.....

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susieice

I could see how that could happen. Didn't know the sister was there or that she was on the second floor with Max. Where was Rebecca's sister when she died? Had she left the home as well?

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Vincennes

I could see how that could happen. Didn't know the sister was there or that she was on the second floor with Max. Where was Rebecca's sister when she died? Had she left the home as well?

Susie thank you so much for you interest. Rebecca stated that the sister was taking a shower on the 2nd floor when Max fell and yet the sister was with Rebecca dealing with Max where he fell. The sister is the one who placed the 911 call. There are clipped portions of that call, all of which the sister was talking to R who was trying to deal with Max. The sister was 15, obviously upset during the 911 call, however, suddenly dried and dressed at the foot of Max's fall.

Rebecca took the sister to the airport the next morning (who had previously been scheduled for a 2 week visit).... No, I do not think the sister meant to harm Max but I think she was playing with him upstairs and some how that's how he fell. That was the added velocity of the fall. Rebecca got her out of town with only one interview. I think that was Rebecca's "burden."

Thanks for you interest !!! This was the case that brought me to this site. This girl did not deserve to die. She might have been afraid she was going to lose the one she loved but she did not deserve to die.

I hope they prove that.

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Regi

Wow. It's as though it's never been discussed. It's as though any previous info. accessible through this thread doesn't exist.

It's stunning to see such accusations, allegations and strong opinions from those who are obviously completely uninformed of the facts of a case, and to see the same from those who should be informed, but yet misrepresent the facts, present info. that's entirely false and/or groundless, and to do so with gross exaggeration.

There's no evidence that this was a homicide. All the evidence points to suicide. The evidence is there and people will interpret it as they choose to.

People can exclaim that 'that girl did not do that' all they want to, but that's not evidence and that's not what the evidence shows. It's actually contradictory to the evidence because the evidence shows that no one else was at the scene, but Zahau. The evidence shows that the manner in which her death occurred was not "impossible" regardless of what people want to believe. (Btw, it's interesting that if Adam- who was about 16 years Zahau's senior- referred to Zahau as a "girl", it somehow becomes odd and questionable.)

There's no evidence whatsoever that Adam Shacknai is guilty of anything but merely having viewed porn on his phone, yet the man has been crucified because he simply happened have been there- having arrived less than 24 hours prior- and had the misfortune of being the one who was left to face and contend with a shocking and traumatic scene/event of which Zahau herself had chosen to create and present.

:no:

Edited by regi

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susieice

Rambling on and on. Nothing added to show a reason for us to believe this.

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CuriousLittleOne

Glad to see my post sparked conversation

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CuriousLittleOne

Are the photos of the feet and legs the only ones we have if Rebecca? Would be beneficial to see the hands/ arms

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CuriousLittleOne

Are the photos of the feet and legs the only ones we have if Rebecca? Would be beneficial to see the hands/ arms

Are the photos of the feet and legs the only ones we have if Rebecca? Would be beneficial to see the hands/ arms.

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Vincennes

Are the photos of the feet and legs the only ones we have if Rebecca? Would be beneficial to see the hands/ arms

I have seen photos of the police doing recreation of her hands / arms. I don't believe I have seen actual photos of Rebecca's. Adam also talked about removing a gag that was in her mouth after he cut her down in order that he could attempt to do CPR. I don't think I have ever seen an actual photo of that either except what you can see from a distance when she was still on the ground.

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susieice

https://www.google.com/search?q=images+for+rebecca+nalepa's+death&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=O_CAUri_OqzIsASbv4DIDA&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=905

Here is a link to the images of Rebecca's death. In this pic you can see the gag and her hands as she's lying on the ground are definitely behind her.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuY4UACE8EvTLoEFfLK06Rawi7ItTb_dj_dCE_VUqT00D2JdmVlQ

Edited by susieice
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Regi

Rambling on and on. Nothing added to show a reason for us to believe this.

It's not my objective to convince anyone to believe anything.

The evidence should be what convinces anyone of whatever it is they choose to believe, not my own personal interpretation of the evidence.

Edited by regi

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Vincennes

Interesting that I really don't believe I've ever seen a picture of her hands close up. I never really thought about that before. It's probably there and I have just forgotten it. I can understand not releasing close ups of the face / gag but why would they release a picture of her legs and not her hands ?

I also was looking through these photos to see if perhaps they included one at the scene before Rebecca's body was removed which shows Jonah's attorney, walking along inside the taped off area with one of the detectives he was said to be "good friends" with. I will have to see if I can find that one. It is something that should have never ever happened at a crime scene but there is a picture showing that it did happen.

This google link has a really good picture of the foyer showing the placement of the chandelier. I know I'm jumping topic here but it is one of the best angles I have seen at showing just how far that kid had to have not only went over the rail but also how far out he had to go in that fall to impact the chandelier. They did establish a point where he is believed to have fallen from and that is pretty much at the top of the second floor just as the stairs go down. They believe this is the point he fell from because there are gouges in the top of hand rail as if something perhaps metal came down hard on the wood. Perhaps the scooter ? They seem deeper than would occur with the board just being placed on the railing.

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susieice

We were discussing this thread at work and it's weird but one of the questions everyone was asking was if there was any damage to the banister if the boy hit it that hard. For his size, you would think he would have gone through it if he hit it hard enough to propel not only himself but the board through the air like that, or at least cracked it. How fast could he have been going? Now I have to wonder how the boy and the board gained the height necessary to go across the top of the banister and not hit it at floor level, which is what usually happens when a kid runs into something. Did he propel himself off a ramp or something? The general contention is that this story isn't right from the get go. No one is buying suicide in Rebecca's case. The right place for her parents to go is Federal court. Maybe some money changed hands to put a lid on this and hush it up quick. Not sure if I'm ready to say Jonah would have done something like this, especially to his own son. But as people say, we know what talks and what walks.

I did find another forum's thread with links. Haven't gone through all the posts.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=11634.0

This is from one of their posts describing the measurements of the banister and stairways and the distances to the chandelier, etc. It also has a pic of the damage to the banister.

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Bove_Report.pdf

Here's an interview with the boy's mother when she decided to fight to reopen the case. They have some good links and posts. Just don't have time to go through it all right now.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/08/13/atty-mansion-death-time-reopen

Edited by susieice
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susieice

Her legs were tied so that they could only be moved apart 2", her hands were tied behind her back, and she had a tee-shirt stuffed in her mouth, the gag Adam referred to in his 911 call. Her hands and feet were tied with nautical rope in nautical knots...accomplished nautical knots. I have always wanted to scream the question at someone. DID THEY SKI.....DID THEY HAVE A BOAT ?????????????? Nah, I have never seen anyone broach that question even............ as they were bowing backwards out the door facing toward Jonah.....

Sorry, that last just burst forth from my fingers....

Check this out. You need to read a little into the transcript, but Adam Shacknai is a tugboat operator in Memphis. There are other links to this also.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/06/ddhln.01.html

Jonah hired a PR company to handle damage control.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-42849609/ceo-shacknai-wields-small-army-against-speculation-on-death-of-his-girlfriend/?tag=bnetdomain

Edited by susieice
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Vincennes

Susie, your posts tonight have some really great information in them ! I haven't even had a chance to absorb it all. I knew that Max's mother's experts had come to the determination that Max had been assaulted prior to his fall but I had never seen their report. What initially gets to me about that is that I had read multiple times that they were not allowed back inside the house. Jonah had been able to stop them by saying he was no longer there and they would have to have police accompany them in order to be allowed in. The police, no surprise, declined to arrange any of them to go back with her and she was stymied. Perhaps, like obtaining Max's autopsy by threatening to sue, she was able to do the same thing and finally got them in. However, I noticed several times, the reporter referred to the fact he was allowed to view the scene along with the scooter but was not allowed to take pictures. Now that again just seems odd ! I will have to see if I can find some of the original articles saying they could not enter and compare with the date on the report in your link.

The fact that they do seem to feel he was assaulted first really does put an entirely different prospective on what might have happened. I notice this last link for Dr. Drew talks about the fact it's her sister, Mary that is going to be on the show. I've never seen her sister Xenia, the one who was actually there, make any appearances or give any more in depth interviews regarding what happened that day. All I've seen credited to her is that R. wasn't depressed or suicidal when she talked to her after returning home.

I did know that Adam was a tugboat operator and worked in the Memphis area. That's why the Memphis papers had some articles that were different than what was running in Coronado, re. his return after the murder, etc. Makes you wonder about the nautical knots doesn't it ! That's why I was also so interested in trying to see if they had a boat or even if there was more rope in their garage. I remember they did attribute the items in the room having to do with the note on the door being traced back to things Rebecca might have had. She painted as a hobby. However, it's interesting there that her ex-husband was asked to identify their note on the door and stated he had never seen her print in that fashion at all.

The article regarding Jonah's damage control efforts. Really interesting ! Here again, why would that be his major focus rather than assisting in any effort to determine what had happened. If not what had happened to Rebecca, what had happened to his son ? I believe he had been home earlier in the day of Max's accident, that he had gone to the gym and received the call from Rebecca there shortly after the accident.

You really gave me things to review tomorrow !

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susieice

On page 3-4 of their thread, they make some interesting observations about the position of Rebecca's legs when she was found. If she died by hanging her legs should be straight and rigor mortis would keep them that way. They aren't. They're bent at the knees. Didn't really take notice of that before, but they could be right.

Happy reading!

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Vincennes

On page 3-4 of their thread, they make some interesting observations about the position of Rebecca's legs when she was found. If she died by hanging her legs should be straight and rigor mortis would keep them that way. They aren't. They're bent at the knees. Didn't really take notice of that before, but they could be right.

Happy reading!

No, I did not realize that her knees were bent. I do think I remember there was more blood gathered in legs as if she had been lying flat rather than hanging.

I was also very interested in the transcript of the Dr. Drew show where her sister was questioned as to their boating experience. She said they had no experience with the water other than a little swimming. To me even if Jonah and Rebecca did boat, I do not see how she would have mastered those knots so completely that she would think to use them and be able to tie them behind her back. :no: That is not where my thoughts go when there is a tugboat captain on the premises.

The report on Max really bothers me. I'm wondering here if anyone else has the same feeling towards it. I concur completely on the center of gravity and that he wouldn't just "fall" over the rail. However, since they don't really know then how the fall was accomplished or even where exactly the point of his fall was. How can the project his injuries so confidently? Now my science / physics background is a big nil but they do say that they found at least one scrape of the paint from the bannister by the logo of the scooter. So, to me that would at least take me to starting with the fact that scooter somehow scratched the top of the rail. From there I have nothing and my thoughts go to, I wonder if this kid could have, crazy as it seems, managed to lift himself up with the scooter and stand on the railing. Logical, no, but sometimes kids can do crazy thing. So, if he fell from a position something like that, could he have hit the chandelier, perhaps caught on it for a moment ? Chandeliers do turn. Couldn't it have then thrown him to hit the other side of the stairs ? Something like what is shown in the police drawing with the side of his face and/or back striking those stairs. One thing I have not been able to find was the distance from the rail to the center of the chandelier which is one of my questions. It was one of the mother's investigators that pointed out Max would have had to have had a torpedo effect to have impacted it. How much father away from the rail was the edge of that chandelier ? Was it more than Max's height? How much more? I can't find that in the report.

What I'm trying to say is that they might very well be correct but that house had to have 11/12 ' ceilings. So, however he did go over, he took what looks like a 24' fall through a chandelier. I'm just not so certain they can tell me with absolute certainty he didn't also bruise his face or his back somehow and hit the side of his head on the way down. There does seem to be at least some consistency in the fact that is the second or third place I have read that the doctors also thought his injuries to be unusual for the fall and had called CPS.

What are your thoughts on that ?

Edited by Vincennes

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Lava_Lady

It would be amazing if this thread solved this crime! I doubt that the authorities spent as much time thinking about it than the people of this thread.

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susieice

No, I did not realize that her knees were bent. I do think I remember there was more blood gathered in legs as if she had been lying flat rather than hanging.

I was also very interested in the transcript of the Dr. Drew show where her sister was questioned as to their boating experience. She said they had no experience with the water other than a little swimming. To me even if Jonah and Rebecca did boat, I do not see how she would have mastered those knots so completely that she would think to use them and be able to tie them behind her back. :no: That is not where my thoughts go when there is a tugboat captain on the premises.

The report on Max really bothers me. I'm wondering here if anyone else has the same feeling towards it. I concur completely on the center of gravity and that he wouldn't just "fall" over the rail. However, since they don't really know then how the fall was accomplished or even where exactly the point of his fall was. How can the project his injuries so confidently? Now my science / physics background is a big nil but they do say that they found at least one scrape of the paint from the bannister by the logo of the scooter. So, to me that would at least take me to starting with the fact that scooter somehow scratched the top of the rail. From there I have nothing and my thoughts go to, I wonder if this kid could have, crazy as it seems, managed to lift himself up with the scooter and stand on the railing. Logical, no, but sometimes kids can do crazy thing. So, if he fell from a position something like that, could he have hit the chandelier, perhaps caught on it for a moment ? Chandeliers do turn. Couldn't it have then thrown him to hit the other side of the stairs ? Something like what is shown in the police drawing with the side of his face and/or back striking those stairs. One thing I have not been able to find was the distance from the rail to the center of the chandelier which is one of my questions. It was one of the mother's investigators that pointed out Max would have had to have had a torpedo effect to have impacted it. How much father away from the rail was the edge of that chandelier ? Was it more than Max's height? How much more? I can't find that in the report.

What I'm trying to say is that they might very well be correct but that house had to have 11/12 ' ceilings. So, however he did go over, he took what looks like a 24' fall through a chandelier. I'm just not so certain they can tell me with absolute certainty he didn't also bruise his face or his back somehow and hit the side of his head on the way down. There does seem to be at least some consistency in the fact that is the second or third place I have read that the doctors also thought his injuries to be unusual for the fall and had called CPS.

What are your thoughts on that ?

In the link showing the dimensions of the banister it shows the landing between the 2 flights of stairs was 8 feet wide. The chandelier was centered so it would have been about 4 feet from the railing. He would have needed to fly out with the scooter to hit it. How did the scooter hit the top of the railing? Scooters roll on the floor. They don't fly. If he hit the banister with the scooter, it would have been at floor level. For the scooter to impact the top of the banister, it would have needed to be airborne. Then both would have to go a further 4 feet to the chandelier. Remember, the boy was only a few inches taller than the banister.

I recall the link about the lividity being more towards the back indicating she laid dead in a different position than hanging too. It's here somewhere.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

I asked some RN's at work about rigor mortis. They said it starts about 4 hrs. after death. I am posting a wiki link that shows they are correct. Maximum stiffness is reached at 12 hrs. The lividity link says it can begin in the facial muscles as soon as 2hrs. after death. If Rebecca hung herself that night and the brother found her in the early morning she would have been well into rigor mortis. Her legs should have been straight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis

Here's a timeline of events.

http://rebeccazahaumurder.wordpress.com/

Edited by susieice

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Vincennes

Here's a timeline of events.

http://rebeccazahaum....wordpress.com/

If I am looking at this correctly. This timeline shows the problem I have mentioned before in Jonah and Adam's whereabouts. I have copied clips from the timeline in blue so you can see a little better what is messed up here and it's not just this timeline. The police reports (and I think purposely mix up the evenings of the 11th and the 12th which allow Jonah to cover his time.

July 11th – mid morning Jonah walks/runs to the gym for a workout. July 11th – at about 10:00 AM Max’s fall from the 2nd floor to the foyer happens.

Jonah left to work out only as "mid morning." So what time exactly did he leave? Mid morning to me would pretty much be 10:00 a.m. which is pretty much when Max fell.

July 11th – Howard Lubner Jonah’s friend from PV Arizona also arrives some time on Monday.

Now, we have Howard Lubner arriving. What this doesn't mention is that Howard Lubner, Jonah's best friend, is actually Dr. Howard Lubner, a practicing physician. To me this is important because if Jonah had a physican there with him, then he knew a lot about Max's condition right then and there. Life support machines are not all that hard to read as far as oxygen content, etc. I also firmly believe even if Dr.'s are sometimes hesitant to tell parents how bad a condition is, they would have shared that information with another doctor. Susie, ask your RNs I'm anxious to see if they agree with me on that. Because if Im right, why is Jonah covering the fact that he knew just how bad Max was pretty much from the 11th. This kid's head was separated from his spine. Don't tell me they didn't know he was in a more than grave condition. They could not have put him on life support without knowing the exact position and injuries to his neck. Ask the RNs.

July 12th – at 1:55 AM Jonah attempts to stay at the Ronald McDonald House but it is full. He stays at a nearby hotel instead, the Homestead Inn.

Next we have the 11th continued to the morning of the 12th. Where is Howard ? Where did he stay ?

Per this timeline, Howard has been there the 11th through the 12th. The evening (6:00 pm.) They pick him up with Jonah and take him to the airport then Rebecca, Jonah and Adam have dinner.

July 12th – approx 6:00 PM Adam and Rebecca pick up Jonah and Howard from the hospital. They drop Howard off at the airport.

The problem here is this actually happened the evening of the 11th, not the 12th. Proof below.

July 12th – 7:34 PM outgoing 1 min phone call to Jonah.

An outgoing call to Jonah. Why an outgoing call? Unless they flew to the airport and restaurant. They are at dinner together.

July 12th 7:39 PM incoming 1 min phone call from Adam. July 12th

I guess Adam didn't eat much because he is now calling Rebecca too.

July 12th – at approx 8:00 PM Rebecca and Adam return home to Coronado mansion.

Next we see that maybe they are at dinner. Because they get back to the mansion until 8: pm and Jonah and Adam are with Rebecca at the mansion. This is covered by the fact they have mixed up the evening of the 11th and the evening of the 12th. There were actually two dinners here. One on the 11th after they take Howard to the airport, the other on the 12th, which seems to have happened later and it's questionable if they ate. Rebecca had no food in her stomach other than 3 ccs of a "green substance."

July 12th – 8:06 PM outgoing 27 min phone call to sister Mary July 12th

This would put Rebecca at the mansion the night she died with Adam and Jonah.

Then you have multiple text messages to/from "Rebecca" Well, they are text messages. Were they from Rebecca or just Rebecca's phone ?

July 13 – 12:30 AM Jonah claims he sent a voicemail message to Rebecca stating that Max’s condition was grave and his death was imminent.

July 13th – 12:50 AM allegedly Rebecca retrieves the voicemail message and deletes it. [there is no proof that Rebecca herself retrieved and deleted the voicemail]

No one really hears from Rebecca past that point. This puts doesn't put Jonah back into view until 1:00 p.m. That's ok because there is a time in the police reports. However, it's very hard to determine because those reports also mess up the 11th and the 12th also.

July 13th – at about 1:00 AM Jonah goes to the Ronald McDonald House.

Rebecca is said to have died at about 12:50 p.m. after she retrieved a VM from Jonah ???? Well, per this timeline. He was with her at the mansion until 1:00 p.m. Why the VM ?

Edited by Vincennes
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