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Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide


Vincennes

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9 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

one can be found innocent and still lose everything. In itself, by itself, I do not find an offer to settle odd. Avoid a massive judgment, avoid further embarrassment, etc. There is plenty else to look at here besides this offer, imo.

There's one other thing to be considered in the monetary offer of settlement.  Depending upon when the offer was made, the initial civil suit included Max's mother and his mother's sister as being included in the perpetrators.  It makes NO sense for Jonah to jump in with his money to save Max's mother a judgement or embarrassment.  They weren't getting along and had been extremely hostile toward anything Jonah did.  including taking him to court to restrict his visitation with Max.  Very unlikely he had motivation to save her problems.  

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That night at the hospital, Jonah had told his ex-wife that she should be grateful that Rebecca did CPR and saved Max's life. Dina admitted she was grateful for that. They didn't know until later that Max was taking a turn for the worse. The text Jonah sent to Rebecca regarding that probably wasn't sent before Rebecca's death.

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6 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

Of course there are plenty of other things to look at and we've been discussing all of those other things for 16 pages.  As far as "one can be found innocent and still lose everything. In itself, by itself, I do not find an offer to settle odd. Avoid a massive judgment, avoid further embarrassment, etc."  It seems to me that you are looking at this as if it's Jonah that's being sued.  A "massive judgement" can't really be put on Adam, the individual who is the FOCUS of the suit.  A judgement of any amount can't really be recovered from ADAM.  Adam doesn't have any money to take.  He is an unmarried tugboat captain that lives in a single rented room and moves about to the extent the police had problems locating him again for further questioning once he'd left California .  Do you imagine "further embarrassment" is going to follow this type of menial laborer enough to bother him ?  These family didn't even have the money to exhume Rebecca for the second autopsy.  The fact that the Zahua family turned down a large settlement amount that had to be coming from Jonah tells us that money isn't what they are looking for here.  I've never thought a whole lot of Dr. Phil but I think it was extremely laudable that he and Anne Bremner stepped up and offering their money and pro bono services to help.   

That is lavishly superior condescension! Well done!  Really, it was worthy of a second year law student on Spring Break. You sure showed me :)

I am flattered you bothered to set the jerk who had the nerve to offer a brief comment to YOUR thread here straight.

I have followed this case since it happened, back when I was a cop myself because it looked wrong. I have read every post here on it. I know who has the money and who made the offer to settle, thanks. I have studied, worked or seen a few hundred civil trials and a thousand criminal ones over my career. I am discussing this case and trial elsewhere with fellow cops and some attorney friends and just was following here out of interest to see if there was anything we had missed. There isn't.

Offers to settle are common, even routine. In themselves, they prove nothing. It is the rest of it that can alter that. 

I'm out. Enjoy. 

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I've wondered if Rebecca's sister had anything to do with what happened to Max and that's why they sent her off so quickly. It is odd that both were in bathrooms at the time the accident occurred.

Still hung up on the lividity thing. If she was hanging for 3 1/2 hours, there should be plenty of coagulated blood in her legs, even if the body was moved when she was cut down. That's how forensics can tell a body was moved after death. Yet nothing was detected there according to Rebecca's autopsy. That's a real big "really" that I can see.

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Re: the investigations into both deaths, the way I see it, Zahau's suicide was investigated as a suspicious death- that was the approach- and (obviously) once there's enough information to support manner, then that determination is made and that's that. In other words, it's pointless to continue to investigate further.

I do, however, take issue with the M.E.'s determination of accident as manner in Max's death since that investigation was still ongoing at the time of Zahau's death and Zahau having been one of the two people known present at the time of the incident. Under that circumstance, alone, I think the investigation should have been left open and manner ruled as undetermined. 

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:50 AM, Not A Rockstar said:

That is lavishly superior condescension! Well done!  Really, it was worthy of a second year law student on Spring Break. You sure showed me :)

I am flattered you bothered to set the jerk who had the nerve to offer a brief comment to YOUR thread here straight.

I have followed this case since it happened, back when I was a cop myself because it looked wrong. I have read every post here on it. I know who has the money and who made the offer to settle, thanks. I have studied, worked or seen a few hundred civil trials and a thousand criminal ones over my career. I am discussing this case and trial elsewhere with fellow cops and some attorney friends and just was following here out of interest to see if there was anything we had missed. There isn't.

Offers to settle are common, even routine. In themselves, they prove nothing. It is the rest of it that can alter that. 

I'm out. Enjoy. 

 

All I meant to do was offer counter points of my own thoughts.  I had no way of knowing that you are well versed on the case and already knew all of the things that I brought up.  In retrospect I think my error was in not acknowledging what you said was, of course, possible.  

I hope you will accept my sincere apology that my response to your post came off the way that it did.

 

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49 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

 

All I meant to do was offer counter points of my own thoughts.  I had no way of knowing that you are well versed on the case and already knew all of the things that I brought up.  In retrospect I think my error was in not acknowledging what you said was, of course, possible.  

I hope you will accept my sincere apology that my response to your post came off the way that it did.

 

Of course, and I also appreciate the note you sent to me privately. You are a very gracious lady and you have a fine mind. My first supervisor when I was a cop told me once after an **** chewing that if I did my job right I was going to make people mad so get used to it and complaints now. That proved to be great advice :D

It is all good and done with. We be cool now.

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:41 AM, regi said:

Re: the investigations into both deaths, the way I see it, Zahau's suicide was investigated as a suspicious death- that was the approach- and (obviously) once there's enough information to support manner, then that determination is made and that's that. In other words, it's pointless to continue to investigate further.

I do, however, take issue with the M.E.'s determination of accident as manner in Max's death since that investigation was still ongoing at the time of Zahau's death and Zahau having been one of the two people known present at the time of the incident. Under that circumstance, alone, I think the investigation should have been left open and manner ruled as undetermined. 

I have to agree, It is Max's death which bothers me the most in this whole mess. I suspect if we could sort out what REALLY happened there we might see more clearly what led to Zahau's death. I just do not feel we know the straight story here,, and fear that after this time and under relatives reinforcing ideas that the sister may even be able to tell the truth outright about what happened to Max. She may not remember it clearly. 

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Here is another thought. The writing on the wall.

She protected him, can you protect her?

which she, which him. 

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Why would she need protection? From whom? That thought just pops into my mind. Did she write the message and mean herself? Was she referring to Jonah or Max? It seems to me the him mentioned would be Max since she was the one who found him and started CPR. You need to remember, Max was not yet dead and the message from Jonah saying Max was taking a turn for the worse may never have been seen by Rebecca, arriving too late for her to answer. I'm thinking the you is Jonah. Why would she question Jonah about protecting her if she was committing suicide and he was nowhere around? Unless the her refers to someone else.

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29 minutes ago, susieice said:

Why would she need protection? From whom? That thought just pops into my mind. Did she write the message and mean herself? Was she referring to Jonah or Max? It seems to me the him mentioned would be Max since she was the one who found him and started CPR. You need to remember, Max was not yet dead and the message from Jonah saying Max was taking a turn for the worse may never have been seen by Rebecca, arriving too late for her to answer. I'm thinking the you is Jonah. Why would she question Jonah about protecting her if she was committing suicide and he was nowhere around? Unless the her refers to someone else.

Love your mind, Susie :) ... I don't know but what if ...what if.... Max was injured by a him somehow and she protected that him by staging the skateboard or whatever it was? Like, say, A protected B, can C protect A (or D)

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2 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Love your mind, Susie :) ... I don't know but what if ...what if.... Max was injured by a him somehow and she protected that him by staging the skateboard or whatever it was? Like, say, A protected B, can C protect A (or D)

But aren't we still left with the question who would she feel she needed protection from ?  And wouldn't that mean that Rebecca's sister would have at least a little knowledge that Rebecca set things up to protect someone ?  If she did, does that make the Zahua family's efforts in the civil suit logical ?  Wouldn't she tell them ?  

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25 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Love your mind, Susie :) ... I don't know but what if ...what if.... Max was injured by a him somehow and she protected that him by staging the skateboard or whatever it was? Like, say, A protected B, can C protect A (or D)

D could possibly mean the ex-wife or her sister in conjunction with Adam. A woman was seen on the premises that night, but she did not match the description of either Dina or her sister, who said she went there. Something way too weird for this to be an open and shut case was going on at that house that night. It really doesn't make sense to me that Rebecca would purposefully hurt Jonah more knowing what he was already going through. None of this was really his fault, unless he said something to her in those two days to make her upset enough to kill herself. But why so elaborate a suicide? Both of these deaths are surrounded by circumstances that are a little over the top!

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12 minutes ago, susieice said:

D could possibly mean the ex-wife or her sister in conjunction with Adam. A woman was seen on the premises that night, but she did not match the description of either Dina or her sister, who said she went there. Something way too weird for this to be an open and shut case was going on at that house that night. It really doesn't make sense to me that Rebecca would purposefully hurt Jonah more knowing what he was already going through. None of this was really his fault, unless he said something to her in those two days to make her upset enough to kill herself. But why so elaborate a suicide? Both of these deaths are surrounded by circumstances that are a little over the top!

No matter how I look at this Suse, it doesn't fit anything open and shut. You can plug any other name in this group into those spots and get different layouts, some unbelievable and some that make you wish intensely to be able to go over the scene yourself... at least it does me. 

How about this spin on it: Rebecca saved Max but can you save Rebecca? (a mockery as he/she killed her ?)  was the old rumor of a warning to Jonah under all of this?

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7 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

No matter how I look at this Suse, it doesn't fit anything open and shut. You can plug any other name in this group into those spots and get different layouts, some unbelievable and some that make you wish intensely to be able to go over the scene yourself... at least it does me. 

How about this spin on it: Rebecca saved Max but can you save Rebecca? (a mockery as he/she killed her ?)  was the old rumor of a warning to Jonah under all of this?

I still can't past the lividity section of her autopsy report. If she hung for almost 4 hours, it should have been well established in her lower extremities by then. Blood doesn't just lay there in liquid form. It congeals. With her heart not beating for just as long, what are the odds she could throw a clot? Yet the autopsy only reports the lividity as posterior and fixed with some detected in her chest. Nothing about her legs.

Maybe there is a warning to Jonah in all of this. Someone of his professional and social standings could acquire a number of enemies.

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If I just go with my gut, I lean away from suicide, always have, but I also do not feel Adam had anything to do with this. I feel as if there is someone standing just off stage in the shadows. It was not a stranger either. That is what I feel.

Who were Jonah's first two kids mothered by? Max I think was not by the same mother? Jonah had 3? Two by wife 1 and then Max by wife 2?

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6 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

If I just go with my gut, I lean away from suicide, always have, but I also do not feel Adam had anything to do with this. I feel as if there is someone standing just off stage in the shadows. It was not a stranger either. That is what I feel.

Who were Jonah's first two kids mothered by? Max I think was not by the same mother? Jonah had 3? Two by wife 1 and then Max by wife 2?

The articles I've found mention Dina only as Max's mother. Jonah and Dina had a history of domestic abuse. I can't find any mention of his first wife.

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/jonah-shacknai-dina-shacknai-domestic-fights-parents-max-shacknai/

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5 minutes ago, susieice said:

The articles I've found mention Dina only as Max's mother. Jonah and Dina had a history of domestic abuse. I can't find any mention of his first wife.

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/jonah-shacknai-dina-shacknai-domestic-fights-parents-max-shacknai/

Never is. What if someone felt Max being alive, perhaps favored somehow, threatened the inheritance of someone else? 

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4 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Never is. What if someone felt Max being alive, perhaps favored somehow, threatened the inheritance of someone else? 

Can only find the same link I found when Vinncenne questioned the underwear found in the guesthouse. His other two children were at the mansion right before the deaths took place and were taken to the airport to return to their mother in Phoenix.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-really-happened-coronado-mansion-67411

This could be related to an inheritance if the first wife was experiencing financial problems or for some reason felt threatened by Max. Maybe Jonah said something to her, but he allowed his other children to visit, so it doesn't seem as though he just ignored them in any way.

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something just itches about this and those few days leading up to the death of Max and then Rebecca. Something has not been looked at, or someone overlooked. Where are the staff? maids? Gardener? Statements? This is like a half empty case file.

It will be a shame if Adam gets found liable in this civil mess and everyone runs off with the belief that he did it, like they did with OJ, if in fact he didn't. I felt OJ did it, but I do not feel Adam did this is all. I just pray to God they stay on it, but, I fear that won't happen. This case is dead if her family wins their case. I do not think they will get the answers that they hope for either. 

What a terribly sad mess for everyone involved. 

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YES! Her name was Kimberley James and their divorce was a very contested one. They also had a rocky relationship.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/25/local/la-me-jonah-shacknai-20110725

From above link:

In the late 1980s, he helped found Medicis — which markets acne and anti-wrinkle treatments around the world — and in 1993 married his first wife, Kimberly James. Leading up to their divorce a few years later, the two had a rocky relationship, according to court records.

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53 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

 Something has not been looked at, or someone overlooked.

New to me was info. from the very recent 20/20 presentation of the case about a book on witchcraft that was located on a bookshelf in that same guestroom with the balcony.

Now, to me, the presence of such a book at that particular scene is an intriguing circumstance.

The full text is available online. https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/religion.occult.new_age/Magick/Bucklands Complete Book of Witchcraft.pdf

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17 minutes ago, regi said:

New to me was info. from the very recent 20/20 presentation of the case about a book on witchcraft that was located on a bookshelf in that same guestroom with the balcony.

Now, to me, the presence of such a book at that particular scene is an intriguing circumstance.

The full text is available online. https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/religion.occult.new_age/Magick/Bucklands Complete Book of Witchcraft.pdf

Bit unexpected, yeah. Regi. is there some explanation somewhere as to why she was using that room versus the Master? I have not seen that asked or answered anywhere. I would have assumed if she was with Jonah they would be sharing the Master. It keeps being called the guest room but she showered there and died there allegedly? I am wondering if that was a room often used by someone else or her little sister did while there, or...? I am wondering if she felt estranged from Jonah enough to move into a room apart from him, if this was a new thing or what. I don't find that anywhere. Might you (or anyone else) have run across that?

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Police reported no domestic calls to the Coronado mansion in three years although Jonah's second marriage was violent, as was his first. It doesn't give the appearance of any estrangement between Jonah and Rebecca, but Jonah's domestic record isn't good. Can't find anything indicating violence between the two. Nothing that her family may have said about the relationship.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15152188/police-reports-no-recent-domestic-violence-calls-to-coronado-mansion

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21 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Bit unexpected, yeah. Regi. is there some explanation somewhere as to why she was using that room versus the Master?

I don't know where she showered, but I've always surmised that she used that room simply because it had a balcony.

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