Why?

[Ultima Weapon]

Why would anyone care who or what someone else 'worships'? If one has a problem with anothers beliefs, it is a reflection of the insecurity that one has with their own belief. An insecurity of belief leads one to belittle another's. When one is secure in their own belief those of others are irrelevant.

Not true.

If the core of one's belief system is to bring other's to their own belief, then by attempting to assimilate them is not an act of insecurity, but loyalty to their God. It is at the core of many religions across the world.

You see, to believe something means you believe it is true. Therefore it only makes sense for one to attempt to spread what they believe to be true.

So in a way, security in one's beliefs can actually be found be attempting to spread their beliefs (if their beliefs are founded on the conversion of others that is).

[GoldenWolf]

Why would anyone care who or what someone else 'worships'? If one has a problem with anothers beliefs, it is a reflection of the insecurity that one has with their own belief. An insecurity of belief leads one to belittle another's. When one is secure in their own belief those of others are irrelevant.

When said belief hurts others, I have a problem with it.

[GoldenWolf]

Not true.

If the core of one's belief system is to bring other's to their own belief, then by attempting to assimilate them is not an act of insecurity, but loyalty to their God. It is at the core of many religions across the world.

You see, to believe something means you believe it is true. Therefore it only makes sense for one to attempt to spread what they believe to be true.

So in a way, security in one's beliefs can actually be found be attempting to spread their beliefs (if their beliefs are founded on the conversion of others that is).

Like we are the borg, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile?

[Ultima Weapon]

Like we are the borg, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile?

Unexpected analogy... Different process, different motives, but essentially yeah... Except the resistance is futile thing, you can resist with this...

[Mr Walker]

Like we are the borg, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile?

While i love star trek i have a problem in how hive minds like the borg are usually portrayed as negative.

I suspect that this is a racial prejudice created because humans are used to having independent separate consciousnesses, and fear assimilation and the abilty for one mind to share with another or link to it..

They do not realise they already are a part of a huge hive mind, and already have been 'organically" assimilated. The desirability of It depends on the form and nature of the hive mind. In reality, the hive mind consists of independent consciousnesses which can link into a net work or web of larger consciousness. It is very much like the net or www. In the old days I described it as like a party line on a telephone. All participants can hook into the network or separate themselves from it on conscious command.

To mention again one of my fav. movies, this is the form of planetary consciousness portrayed in avatar but on a universal scale.

[Jor-el]

I've had my years with God, during a time in my life when I was in severe dread, sorrow and anguish and I can honestly say that I got myself out of that pit not God, no matter my prayers...at least that's how I see it, you might see it as Jesus which is only natural and if it keeps you happy, then by all means, stick by it; I wish I had something to anchor my life like you but y'know, **** happens.

I know that you being a follower of Jesus would advise me to turn to him...well I did before as said above and it worked out in the end...but no due to holy books or Gods, just me. I'll never be religious but I will say that for my skepticism, every now and again, I find myself almost believing in a creator in deistic terms (I love the universe and it's wonder and it baffles me) but 'll never follow religions or the life laws of other men/women because we're too small a planet and race and the universe is so large.

But it'd be nice if we were to all end up okay in the end.

I was once like you, the circumststances were different but the thoughts I had are basically along the same line as yours... I found out I was quite wrong. It was the anger talking, the feeling of abandonment...

I would share with you something that helped a little in changing my outlook.

I know it may sound corny but this poem helped me to see that even when I thought I succeeded in doing things alone, behind the scenes I was being helped, even when I didn't know it.

[Rlyeh]

Humanity has a long history of considering others to be subhuman, white to black, Yellow, to white, short to tall, women to men. Yet, this is not what this killing was about. You may feel that to be an excuse, but according to the biblical record, those tribes were hybrids, not merely an enemy occupying a land they wanted.

Dehumanizing your enemy is a common tactic.

[Jor-el]

Dehumanizing your enemy is a common tactic.

I do NOT deny the tactic. But consider this following...

What if in this case, it is true?

My source is the bible, I believe it to be correct, even if incomplete and sometimes skewed from a personal point of view of the author.

[Rlyeh]

He's given us all life, free will, and his only son's life. What praytell hasn't he given you for you to worship him?

Have you thanked Prometheus for creating humans and going against the gods to give us fire?

Children are molested and killed by our free will because he loves us enough not to intervene.

Have you actually read the Bible? God most definitely intervenes.

If he intervene's we become robots, with no free will of our own. Besides, the unjust will get what they deserve after death, and the innocent children will get what they deserve after death. The children can still if abused, grow up to become good, and the children that die automatically are God's.

Where does the Bible say this?

According to some Christians, even unbaptized babies are burning in hell.

[libstaK]

I was once like you, the circumststances were different but the thoughts I had are basically along the same line as yours... I found out I was quite wrong. It was the anger talking, the feeling of abandonment...

I would share with you something that helped a little in changing my outlook.

I know it may sound corny but this poem helped me to see that even when I thought I succeeded in doing things alone, behind the scenes I was being helped, even when I didn't know it.

Interesting you bring that up. I have that poem in my purse. I first came across it as a newspaper clipping cut out and sticky taped to the edge of a computer monitor in a temp job I worked many years ago. I asked about it and was told that the lady who worked there before me was a single mother who had run from an abusive ex husband and had to struggle to create a new life for herself and her child, the poem had helped her get through each day. I asked what happened to her. She had resigned as she was in a new relationship and her partner had a job interstate she went with him along with her child. Apparently she was very much in love with this new man and he was wonderful to her child and herself, the girl telling me this was teary eyed and happy to relate the happy ending.

I'm not saying life always comes with a happy ending that we understand through faith, but I could see that this lady made it through some terrible ordeals intact and ready to love again in part because she held onto faith inspite of all the evidence to the contrary. She remained capable of facing each day anew and moved forward. Maybe it was her own resolve and strong will, who knows. Then again maybe the burden was eased with strength and resolve gifted from above to endure hard times, again who knows.

What I know is she made it through and used whatever tools she found available to do that, this poem was a very important tool in her tool kit it seems and has been for many others. By leaving it behind I heard her story and kept that poem (my own copy I tracked down later, the newspaper clipping I left on the monitor for the next person), it always makes me smile in hard times too, she doesn't know she passed her faith forward in that way - a good deed she doesn't even know she did, I like that too, it's like a chain of good will.

[Jor-el]

Have you actually read the Bible? God most definitely intervenes.

But he does so for his own purposes, not for our own. I've always found this to be true, in all the accounts I've read and experienced. I don't think there is a single account of divine intervention where he did so for the sake of a single person, although I don't discount it. Yet even when that intervention seems like it is for the sake of a single person we ususally find out much later how that event changed a multitude of lives.

There is this modern belief that we should sieze the promises of God by faith and hold him to them, but when this is twisted into making God our own personal genie, then we have problems.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Jor-el

[Sean93]

I was once like you, the circumststances were different but the thoughts I had are basically along the same line as yours... I found out I was quite wrong. It was the anger talking, the feeling of abandonment...

I would share with you something that helped a little in changing my outlook.

I know it may sound corny but this poem helped me to see that even when I thought I succeeded in doing things alone, behind the scenes I was being helped, even when I didn't know it.

Bro, that poem has been hanging up in my granddad's house for years, since was a kid and as nice as it sounds, I don't for a second take hope from it because it's just a poem, words that someone pieced together to make others feel better and that's good but that kind of stuff, poems ans uplifting quotes don't cut it for me.

Like I said above, sometime I find myself pondering a creator, but not your idea of it nor any other religions idea of it; I despise religion, to me it's like adults playing a game: Eat this, say this, don't do this on that day etc. I'll find my own way in life rather than listen to some man talk about his god and then another talk about there's; with all of them claiming how great each one is and how they are the right one..it all comes down to faith otherwise there would be only one religion in this world if god were real, I can't see the logic behind a large than existence creator telling a few sheep herders or monks on a mountain their word an then expecting it to pass unscathed though the entire planet...that's a very lazy and stupid thing for any 'god' to do and a lot of trust in a species that has, time and time again proved itself to be malevolent, vile, untrustworthy and selfish. Stop hiding and show yourself god, whatever you are.

Religion depresses me to the core.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Sean93

[Toadie]

Wake up people God doesn't make people do evil acts, some people are just screw in the head simple as that. God is not going to magically fix your woes time to take some responsibility for your life

[Jor-el]

Bro, that poem has been hanging up in my granddad's house for years, since was a kid and as nice as it sounds, I don't for a second take hope from it because it's just a poem, words that someone pieced together to make others feel better and that's good but that kind of stuff, poems ans uplifting quotes don't cut it for me.

Like I said above, sometime I find myself pondering a creator, but not your idea of it nor any other religions idea of it; I despise religion, to me it's like adults playing a game: Eat this, say this, don't do this on that day etc. I'll find my own way in life rather than listen to some man talk about his god and then another talk about there's; with all of them claiming how great each one is and how they are the right one..it all comes down to faith otherwise there would be only one religion in this world if god were real, I can't see the logic behind a large than existence creator telling a few sheep herders or monks on a mountain their word an then expecting it to pass unscathed though the entire planet...that's a very lazy and stupid thing for any 'god' to do and a lot of trust in a species that has, time and time again proved itself to be malevolent, vile, untrustworthy and selfish. Stop hiding and show yourself god, whatever you are.

Religion depresses me to the core.

Yeah, Pretty much what I used to say, and still do, religion depresses me to the core too.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I know people who are mess up, I mean really messed up. They can't move, they are locked in their bodies. The lucky ones can talk. What I can't figure out how the religious ones seem to blame themselves for it. I always think it is just bad luck, because they didn't do anything to deserve this. Progressive Multiple Sclerosis can be horrible, but it is what it is, a disease and nobodies fault. Our bodies are like lap tops, sometimes they brake, If you can fix it, great, if not which is most the time, oh well, that's the way it goes. Things happen, good, bad it is life. I don't sweat the details I just learn and move on.

[libstaK]

Bro, that poem has been hanging up in my granddad's house for years, since was a kid and as nice as it sounds, I don't for a second take hope from it because it's just a poem, words that someone pieced together to make others feel better and that's good but that kind of stuff, poems ans uplifting quotes don't cut it for me.

Like I said above, sometime I find myself pondering a creator, but not your idea of it nor any other religions idea of it; I despise religion, to me it's like adults playing a game: Eat this, say this, don't do this on that day etc. I'll find my own way in life rather than listen to some man talk about his god and then another talk about there's; with all of them claiming how great each one is and how they are the right one..it all comes down to faith otherwise there would be only one religion in this world if god were real, I can't see the logic behind a large than existence creator telling a few sheep herders or monks on a mountain their word an then expecting it to pass unscathed though the entire planet...that's a very lazy and stupid thing for any 'god' to do and a lot of trust in a species that has, time and time again proved itself to be malevolent, vile, untrustworthy and selfish. Stop hiding and show yourself god, whatever you are.

Religion depresses me to the core.

They say the Kingdom of Heaven is within, why are you looking at others when it is what is within you that can make all the difference in your life and the lives of others?

If religion depresses you then aim toward something that inspires you and warms your heart - be the change you want to see in the world

[redhen]

because god doesn't allow or disallow anything that happens here. that's where your problem lies - in thinking someone owes you a life free of strife and pain

No one has tried to address natural evil yet. How do you reconcile that with an omnibenevolent God?

[IamsSon]

Bro, that poem has been hanging up in my granddad's house for years, since was a kid and as nice as it sounds, I don't for a second take hope from it because it's just a poem, words that someone pieced together to make others feel better and that's good but that kind of stuff, poems ans uplifting quotes don't cut it for me.

Like I said above, sometime I find myself pondering a creator, but not your idea of it nor any other religions idea of it; I despise religion, to me it's like adults playing a game: Eat this, say this, don't do this on that day etc. I'll find my own way in life rather than listen to some man talk about his god and then another talk about there's; with all of them claiming how great each one is and how they are the right one..it all comes down to faith otherwise there would be only one religion in this world if god were real, I can't see the logic behind a large than existence creator telling a few sheep herders or monks on a mountain their word an then expecting it to pass unscathed though the entire planet...that's a very lazy and stupid thing for any 'god' to do and a lot of trust in a species that has, time and time again proved itself to be malevolent, vile, untrustworthy and selfish. Stop hiding and show yourself god, whatever you are.

Religion depresses me to the core.

I think you will find that Christians who actually study the Bible will agree with you much more than you expect.

¹⁶ Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. ¹⁷ These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. ¹⁸ Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. ¹⁹ They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

²⁰ Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: ²¹ “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? ²² These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. ²³ Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Colossians 2: 16-23 Edited December 27, 2012 by IamsSon

[blind pew]

because god doesn't allow or disallow anything that happens here. that's where your problem lies - in thinking someone owes you a life free of strife and pain

Then I ask you, what's the use in worshiping a god that doesn't do ****? You might as well pray to a doorknob.

[blind pew]

I was once like you, the circumststances were different but the thoughts I had are basically along the same line as yours... I found out I was quite wrong. It was the anger talking, the feeling of abandonment...

I would share with you something that helped a little in changing my outlook.

I know it may sound corny but this poem helped me to see that even when I thought I succeeded in doing things alone, behind the scenes I was being helped, even when I didn't know it.

I used to love this poem until I found it was a bunch of bull*****

[GoldenWolf]

No one has tried to address natural evil yet. How do you reconcile that with an omnibenevolent God?

I consider "god" to be natural evil. There is no way that thing in the bible is benevolent.

[IamsSon]

Then I ask you, what's the use in worshiping a god that doesn't do ****? You might as well pray to a doorknob.

I think it's interesting that some people think the being that created the whole of reality needs to be worshipped or wants my or your worship for worship's sake. If one reads the Bible one finds that God created beings whose only purpose is to constantly, willingly, happily, worship Him. I think He created those beings solely for the purpose of getting anyone capable of thinking it through to realize that we are obviously not created for that purpose. Additionally, if one thinks it through, one would easily come to the realization that a being that overwhelmingly powerful is not our" genie in the bottle" waiting for us to make a wish so he can slavishly grant it. Prayer is not intended to be a rub of the magic lamp, it's intended to be a way to converse with God.

I consider "god" to be natural evil. There is no way that thing in the bible is benevolent.

Can you tell me what you mean by benevolent?

The reason I ask is that even among just us humans there are actions that we take that may well be perceived by others as being malevolent, and yet truly are inteded for good.

[Jor-el]

I used to love this poem until I found it was a bunch of bull*****

I would disagree with you in regards to it being a bunch of Bull.

What people continually fail to realize, is that God ain't their personal genie.... Many times the way he helps you is NOT the way you want to be helped.

[Jor-el]

I consider "god" to be natural evil. There is no way that thing in the bible is benevolent.

Hmm, let me say the following... God is beyond our perception of Good and Evil. What actually is evil, may not always have been considered so, the same can be said for Good, what is Good now may not always have been considered so, and in the future, do you think your perception will be the same as a person living 1000 years from now?

Our perception of Good and Evil fluctuate, they are not static, that is why I say that God is beyond both Good and Evil, in fact it is better and more accurate to say that both are subordinate to God, not the other way around.

That is why it is essentially useless to condemn God.

[Rlyeh]

Hmm, let me say the following... God is beyond our perception of Good and Evil. What actually is evil, may not always have been considered so, the same can be said for Good, what is Good now may not always have been considered so, and in the future, do you think your perception will be the same as a person living 1000 years from now?

Our perception of Good and Evil fluctuate, they are not static, that is why I say that God is beyond both Good and Evil, in fact it is better and more accurate to say that both are subordinate to God, not the other way around.

That is why it is essentially useless to condemn God.

By that reasoning praising God is also worthless.