Time travel

[keninsc]

Ok, I'll have to get this book and read up on this place then.

[NiteMarcher]

The title of this first video below may fool you, but there is a part concerning possible time travel--problem is, you'll have to watch the whole movie to get to the main part of interest. The movie overall, I found to be quite interesting. One of the photos in this documentary, also reminded me of a description and photo shown by Phillip Corso Jr, who also discussed the possibility of time travel.

P. Corso documentary (10 min) :

[+joc]

I've been thinking more about Gravity warping Space and Time...[deal with it or not... ]

I am just going to go along for a moment with the conventional thinking that Space/Time 'warps' with gravitational pulls.

So, the question is...and this does have to do with time travel...what if Space is already warped and it is this 'warpedness' of space that causes Gravity to begin with? If that were the case, then time events could be readily predicted by those who could 'interpret' the warp. (by whatever means they had to be able to do that...pyramids, whatever). Because the Warps were constant...Time lines would be 'fixed' and the only thing really changing would be the 'substance', i.e. matter, light, etc. of the Universe, as it was swirled into the Warps. One might be able then to traverse the 'warp' in the opposite direction or speed up on the 'warp' (think of it as a highway that never changes) to get ahead of the rest of the matter. If you 'slowed down' and were then behind the time line, you would be in the past...speeding up on the Warp Highway, would put you in the future.

<back to my regularly scheduled sanity>

[StarMountainKid]

f I'm going to travel to London I'm going to be sure that London actually exists before I leave.

If I may interject myself into this conversation...Good point. We must know the past exists before we even consider building a time machine. Put another way, the past must exist for our time machine to exist. If the past does not exist, the technology to construct a time machine does not exist.

One reason I think the past does exist is, there is no universal 'now' in the universe, even between individual people in ordinary circumstances. . If you and I are walking in the park, and you are walking a little faster than I am, your 'now' is different than mine.

It's the old twins paradox, you can skip this, but there is a reason I repeat it here.

In an extreme example, you on earth and me traveling in a space ship accelerating from the earth and approaching the speed of light, from my perspective in the space ship my clock is ticking slower than your clock on earth. From my perspective, your clock on earth is ticking faster than my clock. Our 'now's' do not coincide. Your 'now' at any given moment will be in my future, my 'now' at any given moment will be in your past.

When I decelerate and land back on earth, more time will have passed on earth than on my space ship. I have only been in my space ship for one year, but when I land twenty years will have passed on earth.

Now, if time does not exist, what allows for this temporal discrepancy? If time does not exist, no past, no future, only change representing the eternal present, how can we explain the above situation?

As a thought experiment, In my space ship, because of time dilation,if my present moment is in your past on earth, and I look down and observe you, while for you on earth that moment I am watching you has already occurred in your past, does not your past exist for me to observe it?

Edited January 5, 2013 by StarMountainKid

[+joc]

If I may interject myself into this conversation...Good point. We must know the past exists before we even consider building a time machine. Put another way, the past must exist for our time machine to exist. If the past does not exist, the technology to construct a time machine does not exist.

One reason I think the past does exist is, there is no universal 'now' in the universe, even between individual people in ordinary circumstances. . If you and I are walking in the park, and you are walking a little faster than I am, your 'now' is different than mine.

It's the old twins paradox, you can skip this, but there is a reason I repeat it here.

In an extreme example, you on earth and me traveling in a space ship accelerating from the earth and approaching the speed of light, from my perspective in the space ship my clock is ticking slower than your clock on earth. From my perspective, your clock on earth is ticking faster than my clock. Our 'now's' do not coincide. Your 'now' at any given moment will be in my future, my 'now' at any given moment will be in your past.

When I decelerate and land back on earth, more time will have passed on earth than on my space ship. I have only been in my space ship for one year, but when I land twenty years will have passed on earth.

Now, if time does not exist, what allows for this temporal discrepancy? If time does not exist, no past, no future, only change representing the eternal present, how can we explain the above situation?

As a thought experiment, In my space ship, because of time dilation,if my present moment is in your past on earth, and I look down and observe you, while for you on earth that moment I am watching you has already occurred in your past, does not your past exist for me to observe it?

Instead of using the example of you accelerating to near the speed of light...let's use the example of light itself. If our Sun suddenly burned out...we wouldn't have a clue for 8 minutes. So, if you were riding on that last beam of light from the sun...your perspective would be: omg, the sun is gone as you looked behind you...eight minutes later I would be omg, why is it so dark and cold? But both perspectives are existing at the same time. Again, you cannot ride that beam of light back to the sun before it burned out. It isn't there anymore. Unless that is a fixed point...unless Time is a fixed point and every single thing that happens is happening all the time on it's own point. I just don't see it.

[keninsc]

[+joc]

Edited January 5, 2013 by joc

[keninsc]

I thought Joc didn't think time was real at all?

[+joc]

I thought Joc didn't think time was real at all?

What joc said was, Time is a measurement...hence, the ruler.

Reality is an interesting thing and it is different to every person. What about the rest of the Animal Kingdom Keninsc?

Do they consider time? They live totally in the moment. They have no concept of time passing. Maybe my dog anticipates me returning I don't know...but it isn't the same conceptualization of Time that we have. We are aware of the difference of things. We measure everything...how fast, how slow, how long, how short, how light, how heavy...humans are obsessed with measurements.

We measure everything...and the measurement of speed involves Time calculations. We have an illusive obsession with Time. One cannot really put ones finger on what Time actually is...and so...I say it is a measurement and nothing more. If anyone can put their finger on what Time actually was...then one might be able to have an intelligent conversation on the Traversing of Time back and forth. But no one can, you can't, I can't. It is like putting your finger exactly on when Now is.

[keninsc]

Ok, it's a measure, so just for giggles what's it measuring?

[+joc]

Ok, it's a measure, so just for giggles what's it measuring?

How fast. How slow. How far. etc.

Imagine a world with no clocks. No watches. No measuring anything. The sun comes up you get up. The sun goes down, you go to sleep. You get hungry you eat.

Time is an illusion at best. We envision Time as 'passing'. After all yesterday came and went. Tomorrow will come. As Janis Joplin said...as we discovered on the train, it's all the same ****ing day man. Tomorrow and Yesterday are fragmented in our minds as separate events...they aren't. The illusion of time having past is just that illusion. It seems to me that it is always now...and yet...now is undefinable. And yet it is always now. I've set in hospital waiting rooms like everyone else. Time drags. When I'm busy...where did the time go? The old saying is there is only 24 hours in a day...but the reality is that there aren't any days or nights...at every second of every day the morning is dawning on someone. Time? Pfft.

Edited January 6, 2013 by joc

[keninsc]

Ok, so we're talking about two different things. Never mind.

[+joc]

Ok, so we're talking about two different things. Never mind.

I am however interested to hear what Time means to you.

[Emma_Acid]

Time is an illusion at best.

You're talking about time from a subjective point of view. The fact that you can't unbreak an egg shows that the universe does have a direction that things happen in. So time does exist.

[+joc]

You're talking about time from a subjective point of view. The fact that you can't unbreak an egg shows that the universe does have a direction that things happen in. So time does exist.

Okay. I concede. Time exists.

It must...because I am always running out of it.

[Hasina]

I had a time machine. Morlocks will be taking it.

-ba-dum-tsh-

Edited January 8, 2013 by Hasina

[green_dude777]

There is something wrong here.... In the previous 9 1/2 pages, I've seen this conversation devolved away from science, and be dominated by a person who doesn't 'believe' general relativity (as if there's an option), another who doesn't 'believe' in the measurement problem in quantum mechanics or time dilation. The people who were actually contributing scientific input (Rlyeh, Star Mountain Kid, Emma Acid) are either being drowned out, or apparently they gave up after beliefs were introduced to the Science and Technology forum.

I hope the mods aren't ever truly wondering why excellent former posters are no longer here.

End rant :/

Edited January 8, 2013 by green_dude777

[+joc]

There is something wrong here.... In the previous 9 1/2 pages, I've seen this conversation devolved away from science, and be dominated by a person who doesn't 'believe' general relativity (as if there's an option), another who doesn't 'believe' in the measurement problem in quantum mechanics or time dilation. The people who were actually contributing scientific input (Rlyeh, Star Mountain Kid, Emma Acid) are either being drowned out, or apparently they gave up after beliefs were introduced to the Science and Technology forum.

I hope the mods aren't ever truly wondering why excellent former posters are no longer here.

End rant :/

I thought it was a free expression board...please excuse me while I go spontaneously combust.

[Lilly]

I thought it was a free expression board...please excuse me while I go spontaneously combust.

No combusting please (could be painful).

However, you're correct, this is a free expression board. That said, those who choose to promote what they believe over what is supported by sound evidence won't be swaying the opinions of any 'excellent posters' any time soon. A person's opinion is only as good as what supports it.

[+joc]

No combusting please (could be painful).

However, you're correct, this is a free expression board. That said, those who choose to promote what they believe over what is supported by sound evidence won't be swaying the opinions of any 'excellent posters' any time soon. A person's opinion is only as good as what supports it.

I'm not really trying to sway anyone's opinion...especially excellent posters. I simply refuse to have my 'opinion' swayed by unprovable scientific theory. And, my opinion remains that Time Dilation has not been 'proven'.

None the less...Emma_acid is correct...most of my postulating on the subject of time is subjective. I tend to look at things from more of a philosophical/quantum/metaphysical point. Of course everyone 'knows' that Time exists. I haven't put my finger on it yet but if and when I do...I will surely wave it in the air for all to smell...see. ...I held my breath for 25 seconds and did not spontaneously combust and since I don't drink copious amounts of alcohol and smoke cigarettes...it is somewhat doubtful that will happen.

[StarMountainKid]

(I thought I posted this yesterday, but either it disappeared or time for me skipped a beat.)

I was thinking about a statement I made in a previous post here. I said, "if the past does not exist, the technology for a time machine does not exist".

Conversely, only if the past does exist, does the technology for a time machine exist.

Now, in quantum mechanics, all elementary particles are quantized as discrete units. Electrons, protons, photons, etc. And because we understand mathematically how these particles behave we are able to manipulate them

For example, the technology of a radio transmitter manipulates electrons. Laser technology manipulates photons.

Now, the hypothetical quantum particle of time is the chronon. If we could mathematically understand the properties of the chronon and the laws it obeys we could theoretically develop a technology to manipulate them.

The hypothetical quantum particle of space is the spacion, and the same applies. If we understood the spacion and its behavior, we could theoretically develop a technology to manipulate them..

The properties of these two particles must be interrelated. We cannot just manipulate time independently of space. Just traveling in time by itself is meaningless, and traveling only in space is also meaningless. Time and space are covariant. If we travel in time we must correspondingly be traveling in space. The two cannot be separated.

Saying, “I’ll meet you at twelve o’clock” is meaningless unless I specify the place we will meet. If I say, “I’ll met you on the corner of Fifth and Main St.”, that also is meaningless unless I specify the time I’ll be there.

Every moment in time has its corresponding location in space and every location in space has its corresponding moment in time.

So, in the hypothetical mathematical description of these elementary particles, both the chronon and the spacion would be described together in one set of equations. A description of either particle independently would be incomplete. Neither quantum particle could be described without a corresponding description of the other particle.

If we could accomplish discovering the nature of these quantum particles of time and space, I think we could develop a technology to manipulate them. This technology would be our time machine.

As I stated above, if the technology for space-time travel exists, then all space and time must exist, past, present and future.

Just my conjecture.

[jaffa]

I'm sure a government scientist has already created the solution to time travel and is tweeking it as we speak. Its just top secret.....for now.

[+joc]

Now, the hypothetical quantum particle of time is the chronon. If we could mathematically understand the properties of the chronon and the laws it obeys we could theoretically develop a technology to manipulate them.

...and then we would not be held back by the Chronosynclasticinfindibulum!

[StarMountainKid]

..and then we would not be held back by the Chronosynclasticinfindibulum!

[Blood_Sacrifice]

I'm sure a government scientist has already created the solution to time travel and is tweeking it as we speak. Its just top secret.....for now.

What's with this government conspiracy fetish with people? Did it start with the X Files or goes way beyond that?