Provocative clothing invites attacks?

[Hasina]

Umm no, it isn't!

Ouija, my comparison was supposed to be ridiculous because this entire idea of 'prvocative clothing' 'causing' rape is redonkulous, so ridiculous I can't even use the real word.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hasina

[TheLastLazyGun]

Provocative clothing invites attacks

The priest is spot on.

Anyone who doesn't think women dressing provocatively doesn't invite attacks is being very naive.

Men need to take responsibility for their actions.

So do women, i.e don't walk down dark alleyways or lonely country lanes dressed like tarts.

There are women out there who go on a night out and dress provocatively in short skirts and boob tubes to get men to notice them - and it IS to get men to notice them - and then they wonder why, when walking ALONE down a dark alleyway, one of those men jumps out on them and sexually assaults them.

It's alright these uber-feminists blaming everything on big bad nasty men, but they sometimes need to take a look at what their fellow women are doing, too.

And it's not only me who believes this.......

Celebrity lawyer Nick Freeman has sparked anger after claiming that women can "victimise" men by dressing in a sexually provocative way.

The 54-year old solicitor, nicknamed Mr Loophole for his success in securing acquittals in motoring cases, said women who wear "racy" red underwear, skimpy tops and fishnet tights and giraffe-necked stilettos conveyed a message that they only had sex on their minds.

He accused those women who insisted they dressed for themselves and not men of lying and urged them to "take more responsibility" when choosing how they act and what to wear.

In a column in a local newspaper, Mr Freeman - whose clients have included David Beckham, Sir Alex Ferguson, model Caprice and snooker champion Ronnie O'Sullivan - said: "As a red-blooded alpha male, let me state unequivocally that I believe how a woman dresses (and behaves in that dress) tells a man what's on her mind.

"I abhor rape and attacks on women and believe me, as a criminal defence lawyer I've been involved with plenty of cases where those who have been dressed in a perfectly conventional way were still victims of this heinous crime.

"I also strongly believe that Yes is Yes and No is No. But in the real world a woman who behaves or dresses in a sexually provocative way conveys a certain message. A message that ironically can victimise men.

"So ladies, when you say you dress for yourselves and not for us males, I don't believe you. It's time to take responsibility for how you act and

what you wear."

http://www.standard....le-6411338.html

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[Hasina]

The priest is spot on.

Anyone who doesn't think women dressing provocatively doesn't invite attacks is being very naive.

Which should happen first: Women should dress modestly? Men should stop forcing their dingalings into women when they say no?

One goes against the First Amendment on the Bill of Rights, the other is stopping a crime.

Edit: Now! Before anyone corrects me, I know this is a European thig but freedom of expression, to wear what you want without the fear of being pulled into a alleyway because your skirt is above your knees? Just which seems more logical? Men should stop raping. Women should dress modestly.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hasina

[glorybebe]

Yes, it probably was a man that made that phrase up and that's why women should take note! Your last sentence expresses a good idea, obviously, but living our day-to-day lives we have to be more realistic if we want to stay safe.

What your dad said was not just a product of the 30's and men haven't changed that much. This is not to insult men, I'm accepting it as the way Nature made them ...... if you put the goods on show, men are going to take it as a hint. Most men would respond by flirting and see where that got them and this, I think, is the key: most men learn to take it a step at a time and keep observing the signals the woman is giving. Let's not forget that women need to have self-control too and not lead men on and tease them excessively(I can't believe I'm writing this ...... showing my age,lol!).

You're absolutely right BUT ....... girls should be taught, and women need to remember that real life very rarely adheres to ideals.

Thank you for all your posts .... I agree with them wholeheartedly!

Umm no, it isn't!

while I am not arguing that there are females who need to have self-control-statistics argue with the fact that women are raped just because they are female. And yes, maybe you are showing your age, not to be nasty, just that society has been trying to change these attitudes, and it is hard when women stick to the old school thoughts that society at that time had. No means no. If a women gets all ready to have sex with a guy and has second thoughts, she isn't allowed to change her mind? A woman wears a mini skirt and she deserves to be raped because she is showing a lot of leg? We have to stop blaming the victim. What about male rape victims? Were they walking around in provocative clothing? They still had their body violated because someone decided that they could take what they wanted because they wanted it. WRONG, IMO.

[Hasina]

Glory brings up a really good point: what are male rape victims wearing that makes them irresistible?

[Four Winds]

A woman should be able to wear whatever she wants without fear of being raped, unfortunately this is not a perfect world and provacative clothes can get the attention of a predator. Of course it is not excuse for rape and the predator needs to be punished severly.

I could walk around shady neighborhoods alone wearing expensive clothes and jewelry and it is my right to do so, but I'm not going to do it. I should not have to be afraid that I could be mugged or worse, but the reality is, I would be inviting trouble. It is just a sad part of the world we live in.

[TheLastLazyGun]

Which should happen first: Women should dress modestly? Men should stop forcing their dingalings into women when they say no?

I say women should start taking responsibility for what they wear.

If women stopped going on nights out dressed like tarts in short skirts and boob tubes then the number of rapes would surely go down. It's just commonsense that women are putting themselves more at risk of being raped if they choose to go amongst red-blooded males dressed in skimpy clothing. I mean if you are going to walk down dark alleyways with a load of money in your wallet then you are asking to be mugged. Likewise if a woman walks down a dark alleyway dressed in skimpy clothing then she is asking to be raped.

Edit: Now! Before anyone corrects me, I know this is a European thig but freedom of expression, to wear what you want without the fear of being pulled into a alleyway because your skirt is above your knees? Just which seems more logical? Men should stop raping. Women should dress modestly.

I've got the freedom to walk down dark alleyways wearing an expensive watch and carrying a wallet containing £100. But, using my commonsense, I choose not to because I am asking to be mugged if I do.

Likewise it's time that some women started using commonsense and stopped walking around on nights out dressed provocatively, because they are surely asking to be raped.

And I think all this silly feminist nonsense that "all men should be taught that rape is wrong" is just that - silly feminist nonsense.

I could say that all people should be taught not to mug but, for as long as people persist in walking down dark alleyways carrying loads of cash, there will always be muggings.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[glorybebe]

I say women should start taking responsibility for what they wear.

If women stopped going on nights out dressed like tarts in short skirts and boob tubes then the number of rapes would surely go down. It's just commonsense that women are putting themselves more at risk of being raped if they choose to go amongst red-blooded males dressed in skimpy clothing. I mean if you are going to walk down dark alleyways with a load of money in your wallet then you are asking to be mugged. Likewise if a woman walks down a dark alleyway dressed in skimpy clothing then she is asking to be raped.

I've got the freedom to walk down dark alleyways wearing an expensive watch and carrying a wallet containing £100. But, using my commonsense, I choose not to because I am asking to be mugged if I do.

Likewise it's time that some women started using commonsense and stopped walking around on nights out dressed provocatively, because they are surely asking to be raped.

I cannot believe that you said that! NO ONE asks to be raped! By your own words, noticed, but not raped!

[TheLastLazyGun]

NO ONE asks to be raped!

A woman dressed provocatively on a night out to get the attention of men (and that IS the reason why women dress that way on nights out) is asking to be raped, just as someone with a ton of jewellery around their neck in a dark alleyway is asking to be mugged.

[Hasina]

And I think all this silly feminist nonsense that "all men should be taught that rape is wrong" is just that - silly feminist nonsense.

Silly misogynist nonsense.

[Rlyeh]

I cannot believe that you said that! NO ONE asks to be raped! By your own words, noticed, but not raped!

That is the be expected of TheLastLazyGun, from this thread http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=237661&st=0 you can see he isn't too bright.

[Yamato]

Yes, certain clothing can lead to certain thinking. But no clothing, in my mind, leads to forcible penetration just cause, oh my, you're wearing it.

Nudity isn't even at issue, but in fact, it's illegal. And why is it illegal anyway? Doesn't have much if anything at all to do with forcible penetration, so I think there are even more unwanted behaviors at play here than we're willing to give credit for, if nudity was really the matter.

[Rlyeh]

A woman dressed provocatively on a night out to get the attention of men (and that IS the reason why women dress that way on nights out) is asking to be raped, just as someone with a ton of jewellery around their neck in a dark alleyway is asking to be mugged.

Making stupid statements is asking to wind up in intensive care. Some logic.

[TheLastLazyGun]

Here come the feminists, circling me like a pack of rabid dogs. That was predictable.

They can see (I think) that anyone walking down a dark alleyway with a load of money in their pocket and gold chains around their necks is putting themselves at more risk of being mugged but, for some reason, they can't seem to see that any women walking down a dark alleyway in provocative clothing which she wore to get the attention of men is putting herself more at risk of getting raped.

And they have the cheek to call ME not very bright.

I'll say it again ladies - if you don't want to be raped don't walk down dark alleyways in short skirts and boob tubes.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[TheLastLazyGun]

Making stupid statements is asking to wind up in intensive care.

So is a woman walking down dark alleyways in provocative clothing, or a person walking down them with loads of money.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[Hasina]

What is 'provocative clothing' LazyGun? Where's the line? What about male rape victims? Your advice for them? Does anyone 'deserve' bad things to happen to them because of what they own or what they wear?

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hasina

[+ouija ouija]

MY RESPONSES IN 'BOLD':

There is a huge and obvious difference between DELIBERATELY flamebaiting when you know you are offending with racist and discriminatory behaviour and whether or not a person is clothed fully, partially or not at all - NOTHING is an invitation to rape, stop trying to reason a way to blame the victim.

I disagree with you very strongly! There is NO difference. The barely clothed woman is obviously not inviting rape(it wouldn't be rape then, would it?), but she is indicating that she knows she is sexually attractive ...... and why would she do this? To provoke a reaction! Now in her mind this may mean anything from attracting admiring glances and nice comments on her appearance, through someone asking for a date, to actually looking for a sexual partner. This is were it all goes wrong: men are often immune to subtleties, especially if alcohol and/or prolonged sexual frustration is involved. The trouble is, you can't filter out the undesirable attention ...... however you dress yourself, when you go out in public everyone sees you.

So you are suggesting that the absence of adult supervision or parental boundaries are placing juveniles in the position of "provoking" attacks. The young should be safe and free to explore boundaries without being sexualised in the minds of adults and susceptible to being victims of sick minds.

If grown women struggle with undesirable attention, why do you expect our juveniles to be able to cope with it? The words 'safe' and 'exploring boundaries' often don't sit well together; doesn't the word 'boundary' suggest that you've come up against something you don't want or like? something that is undesirable? While 'exploring boundaries' you are likely to have some nasty experiences ..... for most that falls short of rape, thank heaven. The sexualisation is not only in the minds of the 'adults', the youngsters themselves are learning to deal with their awakening sexuality and need protection and guidance until they have enough understanding to be independant in it.

We need to deal with the sick minds and stop focusing on the innocent victims and all the ways they seem in some people's minds to "contribute" to what happened. Boundaries need to be set against the perpetrators not against the victims. It's so easy to turn it around and I think that is why it has remained such a huge stumbling block but it is a part of what is wrong here to turn it on the victim, it is a huge piece of the elephant in the room.

The 'stumbling block' is idealists refusing to equip youngsters with the knowledge to keep them safe in the real world, in their everyday lives. Ideals are wonderful but they always have to be balanced with reality .... life as it is NOW.

That speaks to the sickness inside the perpetrators, to seek to violate what is pure and innocent in their eyes, to dominate and submit what is good into a condition of desolation and horror, it is about power over those perceived as the weak. It also speaks to the weakness of the perpetrators that they seek those that are powerless to fight back, these are cowards who would never face someone capable of meeting them on equal ground.

Absolutely! And that is why women of all ages need to be realistic and understand that their ideals are never going to be upheld by everyone ...... that there will always be people seeking to take advantage of them, in some situations more than others i.e. where alcohol/drugs are being used, and/or the woman is on her own.

There is NOTHING in those statistics that point to the juveniles and youths being anything but victims of monsters.

Some will not be monsters, some will be young/ignorant men who did not understand that the young person giving them 'signals' did not understand fully what they were doing(or were not aware they were doing anything!). And YES, I completely agree that there is NEVER, EVER an excuse for rape. Also, there is the situation where the juvenile looks older than they are, and they say they are older than they are.

Edited January 2, 2013 by ouija ouija

[TheLastLazyGun]

What is 'provocative clothing' LazyGun? Where's the line?

The clothing that a woman wears on a night out to get the men to notice her.

This is usually a very short skirt that ends just below her nostrils and hardly anything on her upper body, even in midwinter.

When a woman wears that on a night out, then men are going to look and leer at her (that's nature for you) - and one of those men may then follow her into a dark alleyway and rape her.

I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.

To me, it's just commonsense that a woman reduces the risk of getting raped by stop wearing provocative clothing on a night out, clothing which brings lots of men's attention onto her.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[Hasina]

The clothing that a woman wears on a night out to get the men to notice her.

This is usually a very short skirt that ends just below her nostrils and hardly anything on her upper body, even in midwinter.

When a woman wears that on a night out, then men are going to look and leer at her(that's nature for you) - and one of those men may then follow her into a dark alleyway and rape her.

I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.

To me, it's just commonsense that a woman reduces the risk of getting raped by stop wearing provocative clothing on a night out, clothing which brings lots of men's attention onto her.

I agree with you Lazy, a woman must use commen sense when dressing herself when going out. Women do dress sexy to feel sexy, much the same way men do, but in a different fashion.

Men want women looking at them, so do women of course. Does this mean someone should get raped because they want to look good? Dear god no!

Men do not just rape because 'that's the way it is', only a vile man would force himself on a woman when she says no and struggles.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Drunk men and drugs sometimes fuel it too, same with women, they might be drugged when rap happens

[Yamato]

If clothes don't matter then why are we never protesting the illegality (defending the right) of nudes in public? Are we going to pretend that nudity doesn't provoke any unwanted behavior too? If we can really dress however we want without fear of the reactionary behavior of others around us (just because we should), where are the foghorns of discontent about that? Why can't I grocery shop in my boxer-briefs without every woman I pass by in the Produce Section staring at my sexy bubble butt as I walk past? I'll tell you why....because I'm in my Underoos and my tight round butt looks fabulous. The reason my being violated with their eyes doesn't really matter is because I'm physically bigger and stronger and can probably defend myself successfully in a parking lot or dark alley (I know...I know... I shouldn't be stronger, BUT I AM). But, discrimination against nudes isn't infused with gender-bias, so as long as men are being discriminated against too (indiscriminate discrimination is so cool!), so what, huh? Oh the government said it's not okay - for whatever reason, who cares?!.

[Hasina]

Drunk men and drugs sometimes fuel it too, same with women, they might be drugged when rap happens

Nothing makes rape ok or acceptable or anything but a horrendous crime.

Also nudity is just yucky and some of the 'sexy' clothing women wear nowadays, yucky. Not my style.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hasina

[Rlyeh]

Here come the feminists, circling me like a pack of rabid dogs. That was predictable.

They can see (I think) that anyone walking down a dark alleyway with a load of money in their pocket and gold chains around their necks is putting themselves at more risk of being mugged but, for some reason, they can't seem to see that any women walking down a dark alleyway in provocative clothing which she wore to get the attention of men is putting herself more at risk of getting raped.

Putting yourself at risk is not the same as looking for danger.

And they have the cheek to call ME not very bright.

It would be lying to say your comments make you look intelligent. Edited January 2, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Hasina]

Question for everyone! What can men do to not become rape victims?

[Yamato]

"Just yucky."

Well the case is closed then. I regret trying to make my case, in light of this unbeatable statement.