Crop Circles just one sign of Revelation

[laver]

This thread is nothing to do with atheistical proselytizing, there's more than enough opportunity for that in Sprituality and Skepticism where you can keep insisting to people that 'Jesus Never Existed' to your heart's content.

It is interesting that the proposal that there is out on the landscape a design of ancient landscape geometry seems to worry those who have a belief in there being no deities as much as those with belief in one particular deity. In both cases the geometric design, if proven, could challenge their convictions.

Because the sites that indicate the design are very old, at least 3000BCE it would appear, we know of no way that people at that time could have set it out with alignments over great distances so some people will say it is impossible. Their initial reaction may be - it cannot be true and does not fit my view of the ancient world.

But if it exists, demonstrated by geometric alignments of sites etc, it must have been created for a reason and it would be quite reasonable to speculate that this reason was that one day it would be discovered. Many people from different disciplines have been involved in this discovery, often unknowingly, and putting this information together the existance of the geometry became apparent. That would probably not have led to a topic on UM without the discovery of the apparent links to locations and textual comments in the Book of Revelations. This surprising discovery added a new element to the story.

Some of the ancient geometric sites are mentioned and important in the Old Testament of the bible but clearly have origins from pre-biblical times and from the New Testament accounts some geometric locations were important to the stories about Jesus. The Book of Revelations involvement, which is said to be about future events, makes this thread necessary as given that the reason for the ancient geometry was that it would at some date be discovered, it now has been.

We could get bogged down in arguments about Jesus and the origins of The Book of Revelations but the important issue would seem to be - what do we know from the recorded stories about Jesus and the content of Revelations which link these to the landscape geometry and if these links look strong enough we could then suggest that this may be a time of Revelation ?

[brlesq1]

Crop circles. Hoaxes? Aliens? End times? Who knows? Regardless of who or what made them, I think they're pretty.

[laver]

Crop circles. Hoaxes? Aliens? End times? Who knows? Regardless of who or what made them, I think they're pretty.

Yes, many of them are very attractive because I suppose they are meant to attract our attention; for one reason or another. Some are pretty complicated too with mathematical messages which have sometimes been decoded. If at some time in the future some of them turn out not to be made by humans it will be an amazing discovery, some people might then say.......is this a time of Revelation ?

[+DieChecker]

The most recent crop circle recorded on the Crop Circle Connector website is number 11 this month at Hackpen Hill, Broad Hinton, Wiltshire southern Britain and reported on 13th August.

Is it this one?

http://one-vibration.com/group/cropcirclesinovation/forum/topics/crop-circle-hackpen-hill-wiltshire-uk-reported-13th-august-2013?xg_source=activity

It does not look very big, and appears to me that it could easily have been done by man. You can even see a spot at the center where one of the people making it would have stood with the rope and spun about.

[+DieChecker]

You say

'in 2013.... we are at a peak of conquest, war, famine and Death?'

Maybe we are not apparently just now but look around and importantly look ahead...........

Jesus said no man shall know the day of ITs coming, but that there would be signs. And... well.... I don't see any signs.

[+DieChecker]

I really don't know about that, I really don't. Certainly I really don't know if you can say that famine has been significantly on the decline, in fact if anything the disparity between the rich nations (even if that wealth may be built on an entirely fraudulent basis) and the "developing" world has been getting bigger and bigger. The balance of power post WWII may have prevented any world-wide conflict breaking out, but there's been no shortage of wars then and since, has there, many of which have been staged on false pretenses by governments who some might describe, literally or metaphorically, as satanic? As for Conquest, depending on who you ask, some say that Islam is on the way to global dominance, either by force or simply by strength of numbers. Not that I'm necessarily trying to argue that we're at a time of revelation, but ... Are we at a time of Revelation?

Your reply to DieChecker as an overview is ok but think back. What is the world today compared to the world when you were young ? ( I am guessing by your rank that you are of a certain age )

We are confronted now, on all sides, by major issues that face humankind and for which the solutions are often not apparent or likely to be implimented without some huge change.

These issues threaten our and future generations and have only been highlighted in recent years. Some might say that on our present course we are on a road to nowhere.

So maybe we should 'hope' that we are at a time of some important Revelation which redirects humanity.

It could be true that War, Conquest, Famine and Death are euphemisms for something else. Famine may be the ending of easy oil. War could be online, economic, or political in nature. Conquest also could be economic, online, or political in nature.

But, I somehow doubt it. When Revelations says 1/4 of the world will die, they mean 1/4. And I can't imagine War, Conquest or Famine being on a scale of thousandths of Deaths 1/4. So, I feel that we'll need to see another Great War.... A real World War, with nations conquering each other and subjugating hundreds of millions. And that just hasn't happened yet.

I don't think "Global Warming" is a sign of Revelations. And I don't believe Descrimination, or Wealth Disparity are signs of the End either.

[+DieChecker]

not sure I'd agree with little famine, and there's no shortage of wars, if on a relatively small scale, but then, there always have been, of course, and around the time Revelation was probably written it was probably the suppression of the small Christian community by Rome that they were worried about. If there had been a time when people might have been forgiven for wondering if the Apolacypse might be at hand, there were several times in the 20th C (1918 and 1945, for example) when they might have had reasonable grounds for thinking so.

It is arguable whether more people are starving now then in the past, but in the Right Now, hunger is down. Down from a billion in 1990 (19% of the world population) to 870 million in 2012 (12% of the world population).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger

To see Biblical Revelations level Famine, I'd think that percentage would have to double to near 25%... a billion and a half starving people.

[+DieChecker]

But looking at the 110 degree bearing line to the north of the Holy Land it was clear that it went to, or very near, some ancient sites and a very prominent one was and is Mount Arbel where the line crosses the mountain at the early settlement site of Beit Arbel. This is right next to Magdala on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. This is the area that Mary Magdalene, according to the gospels and other texts, directed the followers of Jesus to meet him on a mountain which was special to him and where he gave his Great Commission and talked about the 'end of time or age'.

I'm not familiar with the Biblical reference where Mary Magdalene directed the Disciples/Apostles to some mountain where Jesus talked about the End. Can you provide a reference?

Edited August 18, 2013 by DieChecker

[questionmark]

I'm not familiar with the Biblical reference where Mary Magdalene directed the Disciples/Apostles to some mountain and talked about the End. Can you provide a reference?

The Gospel of Maria, not part of the Bible as we know it (but about as likely to have been written within 200 years after 33 AD as any other part of the New Testament).

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I have this mental image of Laver ordering something at a drive through and the drone behind the counter asking "is there anything else?" and Laver saying "Yes, is this a Time of Revelation?".

[laver]

Is it this one?

http://one-vibration...source=activity

It does not look very big, and appears to me that it could easily have been done by man. You can even see a spot at the center where one of the people making it would have stood with the rope and spun about.

That's the one I was referring to and as I said I don't know if it was man made or not just observing the design and speculating on what it might mean. As noted in my following post, 691, the famous Pi circle a few years ago was a clear geometric representation of Pi with amazing detail and raises questions that if some designs are not man made do they carry geometric nessages ?

Since the design of the Great Pyramid also has geometric messages hidden in it related to Pi, by design or coincidence, and is used by David Furlong to maybe solve the ancient landscape geometry he found in Wiltshire leading to the location Temple Farm as a focal point it seems worth considering that there might be a link.

[Swede]

This looks like another diversion tactic to take our attention off the main issue - looking at the facts and then, strange as these facts may be, asking

- Is this a time of Revelation ?

Your assessment would be (as would appear to be a habitual pattern), inaccurate. Providing others who may not be familiar with your long-term attempts to promote your speculation (and attempt to profit from such) allows them to place your repetitive ramblings into a more informed perspective. An informed understanding of the source of material is an intrinsic element of qualified research. This latter aspect is a factor that you may wish to consider on a more serious level.

As to your utilization of the term "fact":

• Yes, it is a "fact" that a demonstrable New Age fraud concocted a highly tenuous and unsupported "mythical" "alignment" of a select number of sites. It is also a fact that the author's "interpretation" of these sites/alignments is frought with temporal and archaeological difficulties.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that crop circles have been created. It is also a fact that there has been no credible documentation that would allow for the attribution of these crop circles to anything other than human causation.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that a self-derived 110^o bearing roughly intersects a small number of earlier religious structures. It is also a fact (as previosly demontrated) that equatable "alignments" can quickly be generated across the European landscape. It is also a fact that the entire concept of Ley lines has been demonstrated to be a fallacy. One can only imagine the possibilities of the remaining 359^o.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that there is a prophetic book of the New Testament known as "Revelations". It is also a fact that the theological interpretations of this book are widely varied. However, to my knowledge, not a single qualified theologian has, in the least, suggested your particular "association".
  

And what is most assuredly not a demonstrable "fact" is your redundant attempts to conflate the above elements into any semblance of a supportable "hypothesis".

.

[laver]

Jesus said no man shall know the day of ITs coming, but that there would be signs. And... well.... I don't see any signs.

Not suggesting any date for for IT.

But keeping an eye open for signs

If there are signs to be seen in advance it would not seem to be going to happen in a flash

I'm just asking - are things coming to light which suggest this might be a time of Revelation ?

[laver]

It could be true that War, Conquest, Famine and Death are euphemisms for something else. Famine may be the ending of easy oil. War could be online, economic, or political in nature. Conquest also could be economic, online, or political in nature.

But, I somehow doubt it. When Revelations says 1/4 of the world will die, they mean 1/4. And I can't imagine War, Conquest or Famine being on a scale of thousandths of Deaths 1/4. So, I feel that we'll need to see another Great War.... A real World War, with nations conquering each other and subjugating hundreds of millions. And that just hasn't happened yet.

I don't think "Global Warming" is a sign of Revelations. And I don't believe Descrimination, or Wealth Disparity are signs of the End either.

Who knows. But I don't think we should take Revelations to literally there would clearly seem to be hidden messages in it - but then the book tells us that there is a 'secret meaning' in the church sites in Chapter 1.

Is this hidden meaning their geographical positions and the link to the ancient landscape geometry ?

If so, since we now know about it...... is this a time of Revelation ?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Since the design of the Great Pyramid also has geometric messages hidden in it related to Pi, by design or coincidence, and is used by David Furlong to maybe solve the ancient landscape geometry he found in Wiltshire leading to the location Temple Farm as a focal point it seems worth considering that there might be a link.

How?

IIRC by the time of the Romans the pyramids were almost buried, and by the time of Temple Farm they were totally obscured. I can't see how the GP's relationship to Pi has any connection to landscape geometry in pre-Romanic Britain.

[laver]

I'm not familiar with the Biblical reference where Mary Magdalene directed the Disciples/Apostles to some mountain where Jesus talked about the End. Can you provide a reference?

As questionmark comments other texts of about equal validity indicate this but also by a read of Matthew 28 it is pretty clear that Mary of Magdala was the messenger and that Jesus had a special mountain meeting place in Galilee that the Apostles were to go to to meet him.

It is a reasonable proposal that this mountain next to the location later associated with Mary Magdalene, Magdala, was Mount Arbel were Jesus talks about an 'end of time or age'.

This mountain is directly on the 110 degree bearing line from Temple Farm which highlights the last 5 churches of Revelation with the last church Laodicea directly on the line.

So we have biblical and other texts indicating this location by the Sea of Galilee linked to the Book of Revelations through landscape geometry with apparently very ancient origins. At Laodicea the message in Revelations includes 'You are neither hot nor cold'.... a way of saying it is on line ?

and the source of Revelations says

'Here I stand knocking at the door.........'

These clues or signs might indicate that we should consider if this is time of Revelation ?

[shrooma]

Your assessment would be (as would appear to be a habitual pattern), inaccurate. Providing others who may not be familiar with your long-term attempts to promote your speculation (and attempt to profit from such) allows them to place your repetitive ramblings into a more informed perspective. An informed understanding of the source of material is an intrinsic element of qualified research. This latter aspect is a factor that you may wish to consider on a more serious level.

As to your utilization of the term "fact":

• Yes, it is a "fact" that a demonstrable New Age fraud concocted a highly tenuous and unsupported "mythical" "alignment" of a select number of sites. It is also a fact that the author's "interpretation" of these sites/alignments is frought with temporal and archaeological difficulties.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that crop circles have been created. It is also a fact that there has been no credible documentation that would allow for the attribution of these crop circles to anything other than human causation.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that a self-derived 110^o bearing roughly intersects a small number of earlier religious structures. It is also a fact (as previosly demontrated) that equatable "alignments" can quickly be generated across the European landscape. It is also a fact that the entire concept of Ley lines has been demonstrated to be a fallacy. One can only imagine the possibilities of the remaining 359^o.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that there is a prophetic book of the New Testament known as "Revelations". It is also a fact that the theological interpretations of this book are widely varied. However, to my knowledge, not a single qualified theologian has, in the least, suggested your particular "association".
  

And what is most assuredly not a demonstrable "fact" is your redundant attempts to conflate the above elements into any semblance of a supportable "hypothesis".

.

.

just had to repost this, as it was most impressive in its clarity.....

[laver]

I have this mental image of Laver ordering something at a drive through and the drone behind the counter asking "is there anything else?" and Laver saying "Yes, is this a Time of Revelation?".

Sorry, don't use 'drive throughs' - you never know what might be in the burgers these days and then what tomorrow might bring....

[+DieChecker]

The Gospel of Maria, not part of the Bible as we know it (but about as likely to have been written within 200 years after 33 AD as any other part of the New Testament).

The Gospel of Mary (GoM). That is what I thought, but I've never read it.

The general concensus about the GoM is that it was written by a Greek, possibly a Gnostic, and used Mary's name to put authority onto the work. It basically is saying that Mary had secret teaching and secret association with Jesus that the men did not. None of which is evidenced in any other Christian (Or Gnostic) work.

[laver]

Your assessment would be (as would appear to be a habitual pattern), inaccurate. Providing others who may not be familiar with your long-term attempts to promote your speculation (and attempt to profit from such) allows them to place your repetitive ramblings into a more informed perspective. An informed understanding of the source of material is an intrinsic element of qualified research. This latter aspect is a factor that you may wish to consider on a more serious level.

As to your utilization of the term "fact":

• Yes, it is a "fact" that a demonstrable New Age fraud concocted a highly tenuous and unsupported "mythical" "alignment" of a select number of sites. It is also a fact that the author's "interpretation" of these sites/alignments is frought with temporal and archaeological difficulties.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that crop circles have been created. It is also a fact that there has been no credible documentation that would allow for the attribution of these crop circles to anything other than human causation.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that a self-derived 110^o bearing roughly intersects a small number of earlier religious structures. It is also a fact (as previosly demontrated) that equatable "alignments" can quickly be generated across the European landscape. It is also a fact that the entire concept of Ley lines has been demonstrated to be a fallacy. One can only imagine the possibilities of the remaining 359^o.
  
• Yes, it is a "fact" that there is a prophetic book of the New Testament known as "Revelations". It is also a fact that the theological interpretations of this book are widely varied. However, to my knowledge, not a single qualified theologian has, in the least, suggested your particular "association".
  

And what is most assuredly not a demonstrable "fact" is your redundant attempts to conflate the above elements into any semblance of a supportable "hypothesis".

.

1. Suggest you read David Furlong's book 'The Keys to the Temple' or his website which sets out what he found and his interesting proposals

2. Yes crop circles are a fact and some might not be man made so the 'coincidence' that the major centre of this activity has been Wiltshire in southern Britain and this is also the location of the focal point of proposed ancient landscape geometry with links to the Book of Revelations and the Holy Land makes this connection worth mentioning.

3. The bearing lines exists and the ancient sites exist. The locations and comments in the Book of Revelations exist. People have the right to be told, so that they can make up their own minds on the factual information now available.

4. You say - 'not a single qualified theologian has, in the least, suggested your particular "association" '. That is because they were not aware of the ancient landscape geometry with its bearings to ancient sites in the Holy Land and eastern Mediterranean and the gospels / Book of Revelations all of which has only just been discovered. But in future they may like to consider it.

This thread is about factual information that other users of UM should be able to consider, but they will have to be wary of posts and posters that seek to deride the information and try to prevent them from realisically asking..... is this a time of Revelation ?

[laver]

.

just had to repost this, as it was most impressive in its clarity.....

'Clarity'.. ha.. bigotry might be a better word... here is my reply

1. Suggest you read David Furlong's book 'The Keys to the Temple' or his website which sets out what he found and his interesting proposals

2. Yes crop circles are a fact and some might not be man made so the 'coincidence' that the major centre of this activity has been Wiltshire in southern Britain and this is also the location of the focal point of proposed ancient landscape geometry with links to the Book of Revelations and the Holy Land makes this connection worth mentioning.

3. The bearing lines exists and the ancient sites exist. The locations and comments in the Book of Revelations exist. People have the right to be told, so that they can make up their own minds on the factual information now available.

4. You say - 'not a single qualified theologian has, in the least, suggested your particular "association" '. That is because they were not aware of the ancient landscape geometry with its bearings to ancient sites in the Holy Land and eastern Mediterranean and the gospels / Book of Revelations all of which has only just been discovered. But in future they may like to consider it.

This thread is about factual information that other users of UM should be able to consider, but they will have to be wary of posts and posters that seek to deride the information and try to prevent them from realisically asking..... is this a time of Revelation ?

[+DieChecker]

As questionmark comments other texts of about equal validity indicate this but also by a read of Matthew 28 it is pretty clear that Mary of Magdala was the messenger and that Jesus had a special mountain meeting place in Galilee that the Apostles were to go to to meet him.

Mathew 28 is not quite what you wrote, but close. Mary Magdalene would have been one of several women Jesus spoke to. And they would have told the Disciples to go to Galilee, which does have mountains. But it does not sustain your post where you imply that Mary was given authority to order the Disciples to go to Mount Arbel. Jesus's words to Mary do not imply authority, but only the passing of a message. And he does not specifically speak to Mary, but to the various women who were there.

The line below that says that Jesus told the Disciples to go there. Whether that was by way of Mary, or Prayer, or a word of knowledge. Or, if it was just where they found him.... Is impossible to say.

⁸ So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. ⁹ Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. ¹⁰ Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”

¹⁶ Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mathew%2028&version=NIV

[+DieChecker]

2. Yes crop circles are a fact and some might not be man made so the 'coincidence' that the major centre of this activity has been Wiltshire in southern Britain and this is also the location of the focal point of proposed ancient landscape geometry with links to the Book of Revelations and the Holy Land makes this connection worth mentioning.

Isn't the landscape Geometry based on Current historic structures which are ASSUMED to be on top of structures, or sites, of ancient importance? Really many Mr Furlong's sites that describe his geometry are guesses, aren't they? He has not Confirmed each point of his circles as being relevant all at the same early era.

Circles made with churches and piles of stone as the foundation points are simply not going to prove any ancient theorys. The churches cannot be proven to be ancient and the stone piles are.... well, stone piles. You have 2 or 3 actual ancient sites on the list, but they don't add up to these cicles.

That's my opinion anyway.

http://www.atlanta-association.com/

[laver]

The Gospel of Mary (GoM). That is what I thought, but I've never read it.

The general concensus about the GoM is that it was written by a Greek, possibly a Gnostic, and used Mary's name to put authority onto the work. It basically is saying that Mary had secret teaching and secret association with Jesus that the men did not. None of which is evidenced in any other Christian (Or Gnostic) work.

From memory there are other texts which indicate the close confidential relationship between Jesus and Mary of Magdala, Mary Magdalene, in her role as Apostle to the Apostles. But we are really interested here in her role in directing the disciples to a mountain by the Sea of Galilee which was special to Jesus and where he talked about the 'end of time or age' and if this was Mount Arbel next to Magdala. If so Mary of Magdala was not only the messenger but part of the message, with 'her' town being on the all important bearing line from Temple Farm and the churches of Revelation and making us wonder, now this has come to light, whether now is a time of Revelation ?

[laver]

Mathew 28 is not quite what you wrote, but close. Mary Magdalene would have been one of several women Jesus spoke to. And they would have told the Disciples to go to Galilee, which does have mountains. But it does not sustain your post where you imply that Mary was given authority to order the Disciples to go to Mount Arbel. Jesus's words to Mary do not imply authority, but only the passing of a message. And he does not specifically speak to Mary, but to the various women who were there.

The line below that says that Jesus told the Disciples to go there. Whether that was by way of Mary, or Prayer, or a word of knowledge. Or, if it was just where they found him.... Is impossible to say.

http://www.biblegate... 28&version=NIV

I think you will find from other texts as well that it is Mary Magdalene who rallies the rest of them to go to the mountain in Galilee which Jesus had previously identified. The name of the mountain is not given but as the most prominent in that area, and being next to Magdala, Mount Arbel looks a clear favourite. Mary of Magdala was thus not just the messenger but part of the message.

At this mountain Jesus talks about the 'end of time or age' and as we now know that there is a clear connection through landscape geometry with the churches of Revelation, which is about the future and an 'end of time / age', it would be reasonable to suggest that Mount Arbel may have been the location and that Jesus knew about the geometric connection to the content of the Book of Revelations.