Lilly Posted January 3, 2013 #26 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I will disagree here with no.3 ... Alien life exists proving that is like proving sunlight comes from sun.. No, it's not the same thing. We can demonstrate that sunlight originates from our Sun. We have yet to find any life other than the life here on Earth. That said, I'd be willing to bet the farm that someplace else in the universe other life does exist. However, that isn't the same thing as saying advanced techological alien life is visiting/has visited the Earth. So when one sees something unknown in the sky it doesn't automatically follow that it "has to be ET". About no.4; So religion is guessing than? Yet half of the world strongly believes in such things... Religion is belief based on personal faith. Belief in God isn't the same thing as being able to empirically demonstrate the existence of ET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted January 3, 2013 #27 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Sounds like a good guess. I'll throw in my proverbial 2 cents worth here: 1) One needs direct evidence for the existence of these 'strange beings' before speculating upon their origin. 2) Dreams are not evidence. Dreams are subjective, relevent only to ones personal to psychological state. 3) Seeing unknowns in the sky then summarily concluding that such has to be alien space craft is illogical. One would have to first prove ET exists and secondly prove that the unknowns were their space craft. 4) Extrapolation on any notion that doesn't have strong supporting evidence is known as speculation (ie, guessing). Jumping to conclusions about any particular observation is unwise. At the same time, it seems reasonable that we must first speculate (hypothesize) about the meaning of observations, before we can begin to look for sufficient evidence to support our ideas. As Dr. Einstein said: Imagination is more important than knowledge'. Without imagination, there is nothing but descriptions of what is observed. There is no real advancement in understanding the universe. Edited January 3, 2013 by bison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 3, 2013 #28 Share Posted January 3, 2013 So ? Half the world is wrong ! Does that mean that Half the World is Right ? May the Atoms Help us ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted January 3, 2013 #29 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) No, it's not the same thing. We can demonstrate that sunlight originates from our Sun. We have yet to find any life other than the life here on Earth. That said, I'd be willing to bet the farm that someplace else in the universe other life does exist. However, that isn't the same thing as saying advanced techological alien life is visiting/has visited the Earth. So when one sees something unknown in the sky it doesn't automatically follow that it "has to be ET". I didn't say that... i said that like we know sunlight comes from sun we know alien life exists... Even if this advanced life would/did visit earth how would we possible know? Except if they try to make contact .. Religion is belief based on personal faith. Belief in God isn't the same thing as being able to empirically demonstrate the existence of ET. So what is the diffrence between me beliving in alien races and others beliving in God... The big diffrence here is that Alien lifeforms aren't fictional like God... and there is life out there for sure, but god isn't like it is presented in Holy Fairytale...If people believe in wine made from water and sea being divided by a man...I am very sorry i rather belive that in next 10 years we will witness something epic.. something like science fiction event... than some hand from the sky ...it has more real touch to it... By that being said i will say it again We are proof of alien life... Edited January 3, 2013 by Nuke_em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted January 3, 2013 #30 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Apparently this is becoming an exercise in semantics. We do not currently know if alien/extra-terrestrial life exists because we've yet to find any alien/extra-terrestrial lifeforms. Earthly life is all we're certain of at this point in time. Life on Earth does not prove the existence of alien/ET life...it proves the existence of Earthly life. Beyond Earthly life it really is all speculation. Religious beliefs are not subjected to the same standards as science. You can't really equate the two. Religion is based on faith. Science is based on empirical evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted January 3, 2013 #31 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Apparently this is becoming an exercise in semantics. We do not currently know if alien/extra-terrestrial life exists because we've yet to find any alien/extra-terrestrial lifeforms. Earthly life is all we're certain of at this point in time. Life on Earth does not prove the existence of alien/ET life...it proves the existence of Earthly life. Beyond Earthly life it really is all speculation. Religious beliefs are not subjected to the same standards as science. You can't really equate the two. Religion is based on faith. Science is based on empirical evidence. I do kind of see Nukes point here. He is saying (I think) that life on earth proves that life can begin and continue to exist. A 'God' however isnt proven to exist anywhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMacGuffin Posted January 3, 2013 #32 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Apparently this is becoming an exercise in semantics. We do not currently know if alien/extra-terrestrial life exists Well, at least I know. They are here and some of them aren't too friendly, that much i do know. Not believe--know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted January 3, 2013 #33 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I do kind of see Nukes point here. He is saying (I think) that life on earth proves that life can begin and continue to exist. Agreed, it's very, very likely that life exists somewhere else in the Universe. However, that such life is technologically advanced and capable of making a trip to Earth (even knowing that Earth exists) is highly speculative. A 'God' however isnt proven to exist anywhere. Exactly, and considering the nature of God never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 3, 2013 #34 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I do kind of see Nukes point here. He is saying (I think) that life on earth proves that life can begin and continue to exist. A 'God' however isnt proven to exist anywhere. Agreed, it's very, very likely that life exists somewhere else in the Universe. However, that such life is technologically advanced and capable of making a trip to Earth (even knowing that Earth exists) is highly speculative. Exactly, and considering the nature of God never will be. If you want to see God, look around. That's what i say. [/gnomic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBunker Posted January 3, 2013 #35 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) It looks like the domain is blacklisted however the specific file being linked to was only an image file so it's likely no harm was intended. That was weird..... sorry about that. And no, silly believers, its not a conspiracy against you. Edited January 3, 2013 by DBunker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMacGuffin Posted January 4, 2013 #36 Share Posted January 4, 2013 That was weird..... sorry about that. And no, silly believers, its not a conspiracy against you. I won't be looking at any more of your links, Mr. Virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBunker Posted January 4, 2013 #37 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) I won't be looking at any more of your links, Mr. Virus. Fine, but the next time your computer acts crazy..... you will be thinking of me. YES YOU WILL. Edited January 4, 2013 by DBunker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 4, 2013 #38 Share Posted January 4, 2013 @$*%%^ %#(%)##) YEah what THe Mc-G said ! Did I take that pill yesterday ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampgasBalloonBoy Posted January 4, 2013 #39 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I once had a vivid dream where I was dating Rihanna, I did not use this as the basis for a belief system, the mind boggles. I had this weird dream that Rhianna was being choked near death by her boyfriend, only to found out that she's still with the guy. It must only be a dream since, in real life, no sane person would still stay with the said boyfriend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khol Posted January 4, 2013 #40 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) regarding the initial topic i find it quite hard to fathom a seperate species could evolve along side us and then surpass us by light years in technology and evade there prescence it does seem highly unrealistic in my opinion i firmly believe tho of life elsewhere...in what forms who can say? theres mounting evidence that early comet impacts seeded our planet with the necessarry building blocks that allowed life to take hold here the chemistry involved could have evolved elsewhere or dare i say fabricated by an advanced civilization and then dispersed into the cosmos i'm also quite open to the possibility that it all began here on earth...which is still incredibly amazing! also extraterrestial life doesn't have to originate from this universe physics research eludes to a reality full of extra dimensions and multiple universes with infinite possibilities there could be many forms engaging this planet and we would be completly unaware i have to say with all the skeptics out there this "alien abduction" thing is somewhat of a curiousity to me there seems to be alot of strong,valid information coming from some of these people involved...not all but some whats so hard to believe?..i mean its pefectly plausible when a guy like John Mack (RIP) steps forward with his credentials,writes books on the subject...you gotta wonder,is there something to this? in my opinion we are the only ones from earth..alone,clueless..destroying this pristine planet with our greed and atrocities did another technologically advanced species evolve here...probably not Edited January 4, 2013 by khol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 4, 2013 #41 Share Posted January 4, 2013 regarding the initial topic i find it quite hard to fathom a seperate species could evolve along side us and then surpass us by light years in technology and evade there prescence it does seem highly unrealistic in my opinion i firmly believe tho of life elsewhere...in what forms who can say? theres mounting evidence that early comet impacts seeded our planet with the necessarry building blocks that allowed life to take hold here the chemistry involved could have evolved elsewhere or dare i say fabricated by an advanced civilization and then dispersed into the cosmos i'm also quite open to the possibility that it all began here on earth...which is still incredibly amazing! also extraterrestial life doesn't have to originate from this universe physics research eludes to a reality full of extra dimensions and multiple universes with infinite possibilities there could be many forms engaging this planet and we would be completly unaware i have to say with all the skeptics out there this "alien abduction" thing is somewhat of a curiousity to me there seems to be alot of strong,valid information coming from some of these people involved...not all but some whats so hard to believe?..i mean its pefectly plausible when a guy like John Mack (RIP) steps forward with his credentials,writes books on the subject...you gotta wonder,is there something to this? in my opinion we are the only ones from earth..alone,clueless..destroying this pristine planet with our greed and atrocities did another technologically advanced species evolve here...probably not Macks view is that Aliens are more spiritual, how do you find that his inspiration is not the stories themselves, which he originally considerers a mental illness, but the fact that he personally could not find a specific cause of the suspected illness? Something more like the aliens in Sagan's Contact. Terrible the way he was lost, another senseless death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 4, 2013 #42 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Kevin T.; Welcome to the forum. It's perfectly possible that our species is not the most advanced to have evolved on this planet. This proposition must remain a speculation until or unless we have sufficient scientific evidence to support it. The common description of a supposed extraterrestrial is: a small, frail body, large head and eyes, large cranium, relative to the rest of the skull. This could all be describing a 'pedomorphic' hominid, where juvenile characteristics are retained in adulthood. Ordinary modern humans are relatively pedomorphic in comparison to the apes. Some species evolving further than we have, along the same lines could be even more so. Some interesting finds in Southern Africa suggest the possibility of the early development of a more advanced type of hominid. These are generally classed as 'Boskopoid', after a place where their remains were found, Boskop, South Africa. These seem to have died out, perhaps leaving a few genetic traces in isolated groups in Southern Africa. One could, instead, if so inclined, interpret their absence as a sign that they continued to evolve, became advanced enough to go into hiding, and finally leave the planet altogether. Such an extraordinary scenario would require a good deal more evidence than we have at present. I'm not saying that such evidence couldn't be found, merely that it hasn't been yet. The "amazing" Boskops Sun, 2008-03-30 11:26 -- John Hawks [...] Today, skeletal remains from South African LSA are generally believed to be ancestral to historic peoples in the region, including the Khoikhoi and San. The ancient people did not mysteriously disappear: they are still with us! The artistic legacy of the ancient peoples, clearly evidenced in rock art, is impressive but no more so than that of the European Upper Paleolithic or that of indigenous Australians. And their brains were not all that big. Boskop itself is a large skull, but it is a clear standout in the sample of ancient South African crania; other males range from 1350 to 1600 ml (these are documented by Henneberg and Steyn 1993). That is around the same as Upper Paleolithic Europeans and pre-Neolithic Chinese. LSA South Africans fit in with their contemporaries around the world. http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/brain/paleo/lynch-granger-big-brain-boskops-2008.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 4, 2013 #43 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Macks view is that Aliens are more spiritual, how do you find that his inspiration is not the stories themselves, which he originally considerers a mental illness, but the fact that he personally could not find a specific cause of the suspected illness? Something more like the aliens in Sagan's Contact. I never really understood what they were supposed to be about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzard Posted January 4, 2013 #44 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Well, at least I know. They are here and some of them aren't too friendly, that much i do know. Not believe--know. People can claim knowledge all sorts of wacky stuff,... but with out something with a little more substance as evidence than someone flapping their lips, it becomes meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted January 4, 2013 #45 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The "amazing" Boskops Sun, 2008-03-30 11:26 -- John Hawks [...] Today, skeletal remains from South African LSA are generally believed to be ancestral to historic peoples in the region, including the Khoikhoi and San. The ancient people did not mysteriously disappear: they are still with us! The artistic legacy of the ancient peoples, clearly evidenced in rock art, is impressive but no more so than that of the European Upper Paleolithic or that of indigenous Australians. And their brains were not all that big. Boskop itself is a large skull, but it is a clear standout in the sample of ancient South African crania; other males range from 1350 to 1600 ml (these are documented by Henneberg and Steyn 1993). That is around the same as Upper Paleolithic Europeans and pre-Neolithic Chinese. LSA South Africans fit in with their contemporaries around the world. http://johnhawks.net...skops-2008.html As I indicated before, I'm aware that anthropologists, as a whole, no longer accept the Boskop man classification as a valid one. There is at least a small chance that they are mistaken in this, and that an emotional reaction to the possibility than modern day humans are not the pinnacle of intelligent life on this planet may have played a part in this. I note that a good deal of the recent criticism of this classification, as exemplified by John Hawks' writing, adopts an emotional, insulting tone, at times.In any case, I was merely suggesting to the original poster how he might begin if he wished to investigate a conceivable scientific basis for what he wrote. This would be preparatory to securing the evidence needed to support the Boskop Man hypothesis, evidence which I admitted is currently lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted January 4, 2013 #46 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I do kind of see Nukes point here. He is saying (I think) that life on earth proves that life can begin and continue to exist. A 'God' however isnt proven to exist anywhere. Somebody gets it... religion was saying we are the only life in the universe, while science is saying we are proof of et life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 4, 2013 #47 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Somebody gets it... religion was saying we are the only life in the universe, while science is saying we are proof of et life... Does it? When did it say that? I'm presuming you mean intelligent life, but even then, when does Religion specify that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted January 4, 2013 #48 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Does it? When did it say that? I'm presuming you mean intelligent life, but even then, when does Religion specify that? Well, as recently as 1600, Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Church for uttering the heresy that the Sun was a star, essentially like all the others, and that there were a plurality of inhabited worlds circling around those other stars. Edited January 4, 2013 by bison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted January 4, 2013 #49 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thank you Bison for clarifying that... Lord Vetinari you are aware we received a signal from deep space like 40 years ago...? Read here God knows what it was but such an event even if so short in silence of space echos alot ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 5, 2013 #50 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Thank you Bison for clarifying that... Lord Vetinari you are aware we received a signal from deep space like 40 years ago...? Read here God knows what it was but such an event even if so short in silence of space echos alot ... Ah yes, our old friend the World of Warcraft signal. How do you mean, though, such an event in so short a space if so short in silence of space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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