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prometheuslocke

Mind Control. It's been here the whole time.

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Harte

You can dismiss astrology all you want. Wont make it go away outside your head, that.

You can say precisely the same thing about unicorns, dragons, etc.

They're not going away either, but they aren't real either.

Harte

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Harte

No problem, it's my problem (too) if I get offended too easily... I think you have a good head on your shoulders the more of your stuff I read. :D

I can see where you're from when pointing out the lack of understanding to quantum physics and the human brain... if we could understand better the relation between all sorts of radiowaves and quantum-level influences on brains, other than "put it in a micro wave and it fries", we might be able to discuss it in a bit more in-depth sense from the earthly materia's point of view. If someone can shed more light there, I'd be very interested to hear, although I wont be a good contributor to that field.

I think you'd be surprised at what is known: Read papers at this journal for more.

But if it would work similiarly to a generically broadcasted radiowave, like from the radio stations, then it'd affect more things than just your "powerful and compelling imagination" part of your psyche.

Why do you imagine that there is a difference between your postulated "quantum broadcasting" (or whatever you want to call it) and generic electromagnetic radiation like radio waves?

What, exactly, do you believe the quantum particles (or fields) are that they differ from photons or electromagnetic fields?

Harte

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scowl

I dont care for this Randi and his money. The attitute stinks all the way here, you know why? Because it's so easy to get a hold of why astrology works, but that doesn't interest him, only the people that use it. Otherwise he wouldn't go around and offer people that kind of money, but spend it instead to gain a better understanding of things by himself, and then make his own case.

It's not "his money". The million dollars is the sum of money from people like me who have agreed to give it to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal happenings under scientific conditions. My money is still sitting in the bank.

Randi has most certainly gained a better understanding of things in his career and written all about it. You should read his books.

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Mikko-kun

Harte, I'm not an expert on quantums, I'm bad at physics. Was just trying to entertairn a possibility. Maybe you can entertairn us with a better possibility... what can it hurt? "The only way this mind-control through some kind of electrically charged quantum-particles would be possible, if..." yes? Thanks for the link, it's always good to read what's the updated situation on these frontiers.

And astrology being valid or invalid... I made a blog of it, just bring your case there if you think you're better than me at that.

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jaylemurph

I've already proven myself that my astrology works...

That's how I became Doctor Who, you know. I /thoroughly/ proved it myself, and, lo!, it was so.

This plan was less successful when I told the bank I had proved there was a $1 million in my savings account. Backwards philistines.

--Jaylemu...

--Doctor Who

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Emma_Acid

I dont care for this Randi and his money.

Doesn't make any difference what you think. The fact of the matter is, not one single person who's entered for the money and got to design their own test for their supposed powers, has come within a sniff of the money. Why? Because they've simply never been able to do what they claim to.

And that is the bottom line.

Because it's so easy to get a hold of why astrology works

And this I'd love you to elaborate on. Ask 10 astrologers how it works and you'll get 10 different answers - and as far as I've found, there is no actual explanation for how astrology could work. So I'm going to be utterly fascinated with your answer.

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Mikko-kun

Emma... it's off-topic to this now. Just come to my blog, it's no point to talk about it here if it's only me going to a monolog and you guys citing Randi or whoever. This is a topic about mind-controlling, have we had enough off-topic here already? Or what, you have trouble coming to my blog?

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scowl

Or what, you have trouble coming to my blog?

Is there anything about mind control in it?

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Mikko-kun

Nope, not that I can think of. But you're free to post anything about it there, I dont mind really. You can also make a blog of yours about these things and I can come there, whatever works for you. Just leave this topic out of it? There's no point in discussing it here because if you believe it (astrology) isn't real, then consequently it doesn't concern anything potentially real (mind control).

the off-topic link: http://www.unexplain...showentry=27168

Edited by Mikko-kun

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DieChecker

I wonder if the brain linking of those rats last month might eventually lead to effective mind control??

http://www.theepocht...her-354710.html

A Brazilian lab rat’s thoughts were taken by electronic sensors and were transmitted to a U.S.-based lab rat.

I can see a kind of technology based on this discovery where a brain implant links your brain to a computer and it sends you irresistable signals. Forcing you to act in a specific way, or feel a specific emotion, or trigger a specific memory, or force a visual (or auditory) illusion, or any of millions of things your brain controls.

Edited by DieChecker

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Harte

Harte, I'm not an expert on quantums, I'm bad at physics. Was just trying to entertairn a possibility. Maybe you can entertairn us with a better possibility... what can it hurt? "The only way this mind-control through some kind of electrically charged quantum-particles would be possible, if..." yes? Thanks for the link, it's always good to read what's the updated situation on these frontiers.

The actual point is that electromagnetism is governed by QM. Given that no information can be sent via entanglement, and butt loads of information can be sent via electromagnetism, you far overplay your hand when you reach for entanglement as a tool for mind control.

You not only overplay your hand, you show your cards. The Jack of Ass, and the King of Ignorance.

Harte

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Mikko-kun

I dont mind, at least I come out with what I have in mind instead of hiding on a safe ground. Why not drop all the crap and make yourself vulnerable like I do?

edit: so what does entanglement do, if not send information? Enlighten me? :)

more edit: so you're saying that if it were possible to mind-control people like that, it'd be more likely done through electromagnetism? Or is that also impossible with our current level of knowledge on quantum mechanics?

Edited by Mikko-kun

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Harte

I dont mind, at least I come out with what I have in mind instead of hiding on a safe ground. snip.

edit: so what does entanglement do, if not send information? Enlighten me? :)

more edit: so you're saying that if it were possible to mind-control people like that, it'd be more likely done through electromagnetism? Or is that also impossible with our current level of knowledge on quantum mechanics?

EM would be far more likely, if such a thing were possible.

Entanglement happens when two particles interact in certain ways that cause both particles to take on the same quantum state. At a later time, if one particle is observed, the observation "resolves" that particle into a definite state (quantum mechanics relies on all particles being in superposition - not in any single state but in sort of a superposition of all possible states thay can be in simultaneously, until they are observed and their quantum state noted.) When that happens, the other particle that the first was entangled with can be observed to be in exactly the same - or corollary - state as the first.

You might have heard this sort of "resolution" referrred to as "collapsing the probability wave."

Ho hum, right.

But the thing is, if you let the particles get far enough apart before the observation, you can show that the second particle resolves into it's definite state too soon for any speed of light effect to have come into play. This means that the second particle appears to have been "told" what state to take instantaneously, as the first was being resolved.

The fact is, once entangled, the particles will be in exactly the same states at exactly the same time until the entanglement is undone. The "problem" here is that these states are supposed to be random, based on probabilities. Entanglement seems to override this verifiable fact of superposition.

Entanglements can be found in electromagnetic radiation as well, which explains my earlier post.

Harte

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Mikko-kun

Probability wave... yes, I can get the concept well, even though haven't heard of it. In short (or in words of someone bad at physics, let alone GMP), entanglement is a more predictable sequence in itself, where the superposition is the less predictable state of particles. After separation from their entangled state, two particles that were together can be measured to be in the same state after letting them gain some distance from one another.. or even if there might be a difference in their state, you can't see that when measuring with (I assume bombarding them with) speed of light (particles of some kind that reflect them on a choise of "test sheet").

But if you could generate these entanglements at will, or make a controlled chain reaction where a chosen amount of multitude of them would be generated by chain reaction... it's all iffy and I bet there's an easy hole in that guess too... I understand that in computer language of "byte or no byte" the entanglement would be "no byte" in terms of sending information, no information or the same byte going through. But zero is information too, as in a lack of it. What if you could use that as a sort of morsing sequence for the brain? It might register in some form, even if brain couldn't translate it in a way it's used to translate things. I might be very wrong again, just thinking here.. you know, I'm obviously very far from anyone qualified to give a theory so I'll stop with theories on this one, it'll take some serious reading for anyone at my level to form a coherent theory of these things. Just got me thinking. Glad if I got on the same chapter with you though. :)

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DieChecker

What is the official reason entanglement can't send information? Is it because it is only when they are both observed that they resolve, and if you try to "force" a state on one of the entangled pair, it breaks the entanglement? Thus because both will have the same state, yet that state can't be predicted, it is worthless to use to send information.... Is that close??

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prometheuslocke

The actual point is that electromagnetism is governed by QM. Given that no information can be sent via entanglement, and butt loads of information can be sent via electromagnetism, you far overplay your hand when you reach for entanglement as a tool for mind control.

You not only overplay your hand, you show your cards. The Jack of Ass, and the King of Ignorance.

Harte

I've posted experimental evidence that to no-communication the forum is theoretical fiction. Further I've posted experimental evidence of charge being effected by entanglement in multiple experiments. I'm sad to tell you, you are the one holding the jack of asses.

You are in good company though, most plain English qm authors are completely retarded.

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Dragonwind

Mind control is definately true - Ive watched first hand how my wife is helpless when buying shoes!!

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TheSearcher

What is the official reason entanglement can't send information? Is it because it is only when they are both observed that they resolve, and if you try to "force" a state on one of the entangled pair, it breaks the entanglement? Thus because both will have the same state, yet that state can't be predicted, it is worthless to use to send information.... Is that close??

Close enough as far as I understand it.

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Emma_Acid

I've posted experimental evidence that to no-communication the forum is theoretical fiction. Further I've posted experimental evidence of charge being effected by entanglement in multiple experiments.

That may be so, but you haven't posted any evidence of how quantum physics can be used for mind control.

I also think this is another case of people who don't understand what is meant by "information" when talking about quantum physics.

You are in good company though, most plain English qm authors are completely retarded.

Says he who has clearly made no attempt to understand the area of science he's relying on to bolster his already rather feeble hypothesis.

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Emma_Acid

What is the official reason entanglement can't send information? Is it because it is only when they are both observed that they resolve, and if you try to "force" a state on one of the entangled pair, it breaks the entanglement? Thus because both will have the same state, yet that state can't be predicted, it is worthless to use to send information.... Is that close??

As mentioned in my previous post, there is some confusion when it comes to the concept of "information" in QM. It's also where a lot of creationists fall down when they latch on to the "information can't be created or destroyed" argument and try and use it against evolution.

This information only relates to quantum states, not information as we know it (like words in a book, which of course can be created and destroyed).

I think what prometheuslocke is thinking of, is being able to transmit messages through quantum states, which is patently nonsense.

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prometheuslocke

That may be so, but you haven't posted any evidence of how quantum physics can be used for mind control.

I also think this is another case of people who don't understand what is meant by "information" when talking about quantum physics.

Says he who has clearly made no attempt to understand the area of science he's relying on to bolster his already rather feeble hypothesis.

Says she who has not read even the abstracts of the three or four studies I have mentioned. You are blinded by popular opinion in a field, and that popular opinion is based solely on hypotheticals and conjectures which have been disproven time and time again. You are a victim of a government run disinformation campaign, try understanding the actual science.

Try starting here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popper's_experiment#Popper.27s_experiment_and_faster-than-light_signalling

It should be enough alone, but there is so much more.

Edited by prometheuslocke

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Emma_Acid

Says she who has not read even the abstracts of the three or four studies I have mentioned. You are blinded by popular opinion in a field, and that popular opinion is based solely on hypotheticals and conjectures which have been disproven time and time again. You are a victim of a government run disinformation campaign, try understanding the actual science.

Try starting here: http://en.wikipedia....ight_signalling

It should be enough alone, but there is so much more.

Says she who has not read even the abstracts of the three or four studies I have mentioned. You are blinded by popular opinion in a field, and that popular opinion is based solely on hypotheticals and conjectures which have been disproven time and time again. You are a victim of a government run disinformation campaign, try understanding the actual science.

Try starting here: http://en.wikipedia....ight_signalling

It should be enough alone, but there is so much more.

That just lists a general wiki page for the word "popper". Try again?

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Emma_Acid

It's supposed to be this one, specifically the portion talking about FTL signaling.

http://en.wikipedia....39;s_experiment

If that doesn't work its probably the forum, try searching for "Popper's Experiment"

Sure, I've heard of that thought experiment before. I'd love to know what your understanding of it is and how it relates to mind control.

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