+HerNibs Posted January 17, 2013 #251 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Maybe it's the term 'shoot to kill' that causes disagreements in opinion here, since it implies a motive at first reading, rather then 'shoot to protect (and killing may be an outcome)' I understand what you are saying but when you are using a weapon for protection you are in a desperate situation (or should be) with your life (or some one else's) and in that situation you don't think...oh, I'll shoot him in the hand or I'll shoot him in the foot. We were taught that since the goal is to remove the danger as fast as possible. You pull the trigger. You don't stop and rationalize, you don't pick an option. It's an ugly statement "shoot to kill" but IMO it clearly states what kind of responsibility a person has when they have a weapon. This is a mindset that needs to be grasped before a person even considers pulling a weapon. IF you are in the situation that you do shoot some one and they are wiggling on the floor or something like that you do NOT go over and shoot until they aren't moving. If the danger is over then you wait for police. Now, if you shoot some one and they are wiggling on the floor and still have a weapon or are still a threat, yeah, you shoot again. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted January 17, 2013 Author #252 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Of course you don't. The threat is gone and that is murder. We are only talking about imminent danger here. Yes in the cases of imminent danger, that is, if my life is being threatened, I will put an end to that danger with my firearm. Not shoot with even a shred of intent to kill. Let's not forget, rhetoric like "imminent danger" was recklessly and repeatedly tossed around by the federal government. Like "shoot to kill", it's dangerous rhetoric subject to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 17, 2013 #253 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) If he stops moving, what do you think could be the problem? Has he A - Stopped to take a wee rest .. OR B - Dead ? i don't understand your question, i clearly stated, you shoot untill he stoppes moving, when he stopped, so should you. what is not clear about that? Edited January 17, 2013 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted January 17, 2013 #254 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yes, that was for the gun controllers. What on earth do you mean yes it was for the gun controllers? If I do shoot and I do blow his head off, it DOESN'T MATTER. It does matter It matters to the lives you saved by doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 17, 2013 #255 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yes in the cases of imminent danger, that is, if my life is being threatened, I will put an end to that danger with my firearm. Not shoot with even a shred of intent to kill. Let's not forget, rhetoric like "imminent danger" was recklessly and repeatedly tossed around by the federal government. Like "shoot to kill", it's dangerous rhetoric subject to interpretation. Question - You are in your bedroom in your home. It's 2:00 AM. You hear a window break downstairs. You then hear some one moving through a room. What would you do? Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted January 17, 2013 #256 Share Posted January 17, 2013 i don't understand your question, i clearly stated, you shoot untill he stoppes moving, when he stopped, so should you. what is not clear about that? If you shoot until he stops moving, chances are he is dead, no point in shooting any more .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted January 17, 2013 Author #257 Share Posted January 17, 2013 What on earth do you mean yes it was for the gun controllers? It does matter It matters to the lives you saved by doing it... My kids need a headless corpse in our house? Sweet Jesus Cupcakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 17, 2013 #258 Share Posted January 17, 2013 If you shoot until he stops moving, chances are he is dead, no point in shooting any more .. i don't care if he is dead or not. i need him to stop moving. that all there is to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted January 17, 2013 Author #259 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Question - You are in your bedroom in your home. It's 2:00 AM. You hear a window break downstairs. You then hear some one moving through a room. What would you do? Nibs Grab my phone and call 911. Give them my address and continue to monitor the situation on the phone as I retrieve my shotgun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS Posted January 17, 2013 #260 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I understand what you are saying but when you are using a weapon for protection you are in a desperate situation (or should be) with your life (or some one else's) and in that situation you don't think...oh, I'll shoot him in the hand or I'll shoot him in the foot. We were taught that since the goal is to remove the danger as fast as possible. You pull the trigger. You don't stop and rationalize, you don't pick an option. It's an ugly statement "shoot to kill" but IMO it clearly states what kind of responsibility a person has when they have a weapon. This is a mindset that needs to be grasped before a person even considers pulling a weapon. IF you are in the situation that you do shoot some one and they are wiggling on the floor or something like that you do NOT go over and shoot until they aren't moving. If the danger is over then you wait for police. Now, if you shoot some one and they are wiggling on the floor and still have a weapon or are still a threat, yeah, you shoot again. Nibs Yeah I do get the reasoning behind it...but (personally speaking) I find the wording of 'shoot to kill' poorly written. Shoot to kill implies you are shooting with the intention to kill, and that isn't even practical in real terms, let alone it shouldn't be taught as a desired outcome. I can understand why it was used, since it was obviously designed to give the message that you only shoot as a last resort, when you have no other option, therefore you have no other option then to kill that person, but since at first glance to gives the impression that you aim to kill, rather then stop the person (regardless of whether they die or not) it seems to me the wording needs a rethink. Edited January 17, 2013 by Sky Scanner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 17, 2013 #261 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Grab my phone and call 911. Give them my address and continue to monitor the situation on the phone as I retrieve my shotgun. Ok, cool. What I would do as well. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted January 17, 2013 Author #262 Share Posted January 17, 2013 i don't care if he is dead or not. i need him to stop moving. that all there is to it. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted January 17, 2013 Author #263 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Let's at least fake some respect for life here, folks. My goodness. It's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There is no liberty without life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 17, 2013 #264 Share Posted January 17, 2013 at nypd interview one guy was asked a question what would you do if you see out your window someone on the street steling your car, he said he'll fire warning shot in the air, he failed interview. safe to say he didn't get license, at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted January 17, 2013 Author #265 Share Posted January 17, 2013 at nypd interview one guy was asked a question what would you do if you see out your window someone on the street steling your car, he said he'll fire warning shot in the air, he failed interview. safe to say he didn't get license, at that time. LOL that's an awesome question for that interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 17, 2013 #266 Share Posted January 17, 2013 at nypd interview one guy was asked a question what would you do if you see out your window someone on the street steling your car, he said he'll fire warning shot in the air, he failed interview. safe to say he didn't get license, at that time. Because the bullet has to land somewhere. A warning shot is irresponsible. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 17, 2013 #267 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Because the bullet has to land somewhere. A warning shot is irresponsible. Nibs well you'd fail that interview as well.what if i shoot a warning shot into the ground\sand\anything knowing full well the bullet will not go anywhere else, or ricochet anywhere, a well for example??? Edited January 17, 2013 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 17, 2013 #268 Share Posted January 17, 2013 well you'd fail that interview as well.what if i shoot a warning shot into the ground\sand\anything knowing full well the bullety will not go anywhere else? *sigh* Well, I didn't fail for my CC. So what is the correct answer? Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 17, 2013 #269 Share Posted January 17, 2013 you just don't fire unless you believe you are (or someone next to you )in danger to be maimed or killed. period. doen't matter where the bullet lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 17, 2013 #270 Share Posted January 17, 2013 of course target practice and hunting don't count. as long as you do it lawfully in designated place, with accordinance to all local laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 17, 2013 #271 Share Posted January 17, 2013 you just don't fire unless you believe you are (or someone next to you )in danger to be maimed or killed. period. doen't matter where the bullet lands. And where did I say I would fire at all? I said a warning shot is irresponsible. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 17, 2013 #272 Share Posted January 17, 2013 And where did I say I would fire at all? I said a warning shot is irresponsible. Nibs yea you did, but for the wrong reason. according to nyc (my ) laws, p.s. you might not be wrong in your state, thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted January 17, 2013 #273 Share Posted January 17, 2013 i don't care if he is dead or not. i need him to stop moving. that all there is to it. I wasn't telling you should care .. If your aim is to shoot until they are no longer moving.. that also means shoot to kill, because if you shoot and they are not moving, they are obviously dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted January 17, 2013 Author #274 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The purpose of this thread was to highlight different types of gun behavior, dependent on what purpose we use them for. And whoever started claiming that "the purpose is to kill" fell right into the hole I dug. The federal government uses its guns to kill. To impose itself politically on the will of other people with blood force. This is who is going to crack down on the peoples' guns? This is going to be what tells me how many bullets I may load per its command? This is who is going to tell me, the person who protects himself, the person who would never have the desire to take another human soul's life, tell me how to behave? You're going to let this bloodthirsty monster make me responsible! How dare you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 17, 2013 #275 Share Posted January 17, 2013 yea you did, but for the wrong reason. according to nyc (my ) laws, p.s. you might not be wrong in your state, thou. What does the NYC laws about warning shots say? Link? Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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