911 inside job - for what?

[redhen]

How am I supposed to give you information i do not have?

I thought you were one of those who claimed that financial power and wealth was a paramount goal of this conspiracy?

9/16/2001 "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation." This denial was broadcast on U.S. news networks and worldwide.^[1]

Right, I had forgotten about that. In his first public statement just 5 days after the attacks, he claimed he didn't do it. It's possible he was buying some time to dig in somewhere. Anyways, there's plenty of other transcripts of his where he does take credit and spells out how and why, on that same wiki page.

The 2001 Osama bin Laden video released on December 13, 2001

On November 9, 2001, U.S. military forces in Jalalabad found a video tape of bin Laden.^[4]

On December 13, 2001, the United States State Department released a video tape apparently showing bin Laden speaking with Khaled al-Harbi and other associates, somewhere in Afghanistan, before the U.S. invasion had driven the Taliban regime from Kandahar. The State Department stated that the tape was captured by U.S. forces in Afghanistan during a raid on a house in Jalalabad.^[5] The tape was aired with an accompanying ^[6] English translation. In this translation, Osama bin Laden displays knowledge of the timing of the actual attack a few days in advance;^[7]

Some members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth believe that the man in this videotape is not Osama bin Laden at all, citing differences in weight and facial features, along with his wearing of a gold ring, which is forbidden by Muslim law, and writing with his right hand although bin Laden is left-handed.^[10] Andy Laws, a former military imaging analyst for the Royal Air Force, says the fact that bin Laden appears fatter in the 2001 tape is down to the editing process, when subtitles were added and the image was squashed.^[11]

Well, there's probably other tenants of the Islamic faith that he violated, beside wearing a gold ring. For example his stash of porn. Anyways, for arguments sake let's you are right, that's not OBL in that video. Fine. I will tag this video/transcript for further examination of it's content and provenance

I implied that you have been lied to about the attacks by the people who have given you the official version of the attacks

But you can't claim that since U.S. officials lied in the past about certain events, they must necessarily be lying now about 911. You may feel strongly about this, but you can't use it in a reasoned argument.

[Zaphod222]

I was going to type up a summary of the replies I have received; a series of random, unconnected names and events, punctuated with some abusive language unfortunately.

That is par for the course for 9/11 conspiracy theorists, alas.

I have yet to see a coherent argument from any of them, let alone a reasoned response to criticism.

It really is kind of a belief system... a religion so to say.

[Professor Buzzkill]

But you can't claim that since U.S. officials lied in the past about certain events, they must necessarily be lying now about 911. You may feel strongly about this, but you can't use it in a reasoned argument.

It wasn't the "past" per se. It was all post 9/11

[Professor Buzzkill]

Right, I had forgotten about that. In his first public statement just 5 days after the attacks, he claimed he didn't do it. It's possible he was buying some time to dig in somewhere. Anyways, there's plenty of other transcripts of his where he does take credit and spells out how and why, on that same wiki page.

Right... Because when i am looking to disappear from the public eye i like to put out tracable statements to the media....

Can you give me a confirmed statement from Osama claiming responsibility? or just ones attributed to him?

[redhen]

I have yet to see a coherent argument from any of them, let alone a reasoned response to criticism.

I finally got a coherent, reasoned argument, from joc, on page 35. It has some weak claims, some false ones, but he makes some valid ones too. Personally, I don't think his argument is a strong one.

[+joc]

joc, on 14 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

I was going to type up a summary of the replies I have received; a series of random, unconnected names and events, punctuated with some abusive language unfortunately.

That is par for the course for 9/11 conspiracy theorists, alas.

I have yet to see a coherent argument from any of them, let alone a reasoned response to criticism.

It really is kind of a belief system... a religion so to say.

Hey Zaphod222...that isn't my quote...that is redhen's quote...

[+joc]

I finally got a coherent, reasoned argument, from joc, on page 35. It has some weak claims, some false ones, but he makes some valid ones too. Personally, I don't think his argument is a strong one.

You are right...a lot of things don't jive well that I included. So...allow me to refine this down a bit so that it makes more sense...a more 'reasonable' argument:

Afghanistan was Russia's Vietnam...they simply couldn't afford to go on as they were and something major had to change. Enter Ronaldus Magnus...Reagan played Gorbi like a Statovarius..SDI, Evil Empire and all that...and he also played the American Public as well as Thatcher like marionettes in a puppet show. After all...he did come from HollyWood...which was the breeding ground for Communist Sympathisers.

Gorbi was a pawn of the KGB. The Russian Plan was to step out of the way of a crumbling Empire and let it crumble...let the people think they were free...loose the satellites that were dragging Moscow down, retool, rethink, and set out again for their World Domination Goal. Reagan was a hardline Soviet Communist in Conservative Sheep's Clothing. He talked the talk Americans wanted to hear and helped the KGB bring down the Soviet Union...it was the KGB hardliners that wanted to loose the chains of the Empire. They put Gorbachev in power and between Gorbi and Ronnie...it was a done deal. Gorbi thought he was a hero and Reagan laughed at him all the way to the Berlin Wall.

Reagan picked George H. Bush as VP who was also a hardline communist. It is important to remember that Communists believe the Means justifies the End, and so presenting yourself as one thing when you are quite another was just part of the Means. Bush Sr. lost to Clinton who picked Al Gore...a hardline Communist as VP. Al Gore lost to GW Bush and then what did he (Al Gore)do? Set about a Global Warming Scare Campaign that left the entire world screaming Go Green!

911 was a Russian plot through and through. It wasn't a 'long term' plot...it just came about as a 'way' when other world events presented themselves in such a fashion as to make that a justifiable goal.

In order to believe that, you have to believe Reagan was a Communist, Bush Sr was a Communist, Clinton, and Al Gore were Communists...but is that really hard to believe? Isn't most of Washington all One Party...and which party is that..the Communist Party!

Edited January 15, 2013 by joc

[redhen]

Right... Because when i am looking to disappear from the public eye i like to put out tracable statements to the media....

He had a big ego and was a media hound. He's been doing media interviews, with western journalists, since his mujahideen days.

Can you give me a confirmed statement from Osama claiming responsibility? or just ones attributed to him?

Confirmed? What's your criteria?

[Professor Buzzkill]

He had a big ego and was a media hound. He's been doing media interviews, with western journalists, since his mujahideen days.

Surely if all he wanted was publicity (like all media hounds/whores) he would have claimed he did it

Confirmed? What's your criteria?

Preferably authenticated by Al jazeera. I used to get that channel and their world news broadcast was probably the best news programme i have seen (by that i mean they stuck to facts and left out opinion/speculation)

[frenat]

that's right, larry arnold was running a drill over florida using an awacs that day.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

it seems they were lucky in every respect except for thwarting the attacks. how convenient.

Nor does that.

there was also the case of the mysterious camera crew that turned up for an unannounced interview with bush the day before only to be turned away, just a few days earlier a camera crew had blown themselves up assassinating the leader of the afghanistan northern alliance.

Nor does that.

staying in the school was still retarded.

Only if you think rushing blindly from a known safe location into an unknown is somehow better.

and i note you ignored the second point which was the main response to the question. pick around the edges all you like, i was responding to redhen.

I responded to what I know about. I didn't respond to what I don't. Would you prefer I speculate wildly on something I have no knowledge of? Then I'd be no better than a truther! Why should I care who you were responding to? Its a public forum.

I notice you ignored the question about the secret service having to be in on it in your scenario.

[redhen]

You are right...a lot of things don't jive well that I included. So...allow me to refine this down a bit so that it makes more sense...a more 'reasonable' argument:

Afghanistan was Russia's Vietnam...they simply couldn't afford to go on as they were and something major had to change.

so far so good

Enter Ronaldus Magnus...Reagan played Gorbi like a Statovarius..SDI, Evil Empire and all that...and he also played the American Public as well as Thatcher like marionettes in a puppet show.

I'll accept that

After all...he did come from HollyWood...which was the breeding ground for Communist Sympathisers.

I'll accept that too, wait, do you mean Reagan ..

Gorbi was a pawn of the KGB. The Russian Plan was to step out of the way of a crumbling Empire and let it crumble...let the people think they were free...loose the satellites that were dragging Moscow down, retool, rethink, and set out again for their World Domination Goal.

Sounds plausible

Reagan was a hardline Soviet Communist in Conservative Sheep's Clothing. He talked the talk Americans wanted to hear and helped the KGB bring down the Soviet Union...

argh, you do mean that. And you were doing so well.

it was the KGB hardliners that wanted to loose the chains of the Empire. They put Gorbachev in power and between Gorbi and Ronnie...it was a done deal. Gorbi thought he was a hero and Reagan laughed at him all the way to the Berlin Wall.

Reagan picked George H. Bush as VP who was also a hardline communist.

Komrad Bush, the plot thickens ...

It is important to remember that Communists believe the Means justifies the End, and so presenting yourself as one thing when you are quite another was just part of the Means.

You get extra points in my books !

Bush Sr. lost to Clinton who picked Al Gore...a hardline Communist as VP. Al Gore lost to GW Bush and then what did he (Al Gore)do? Set about a Global Warming Scare Campaign that left the entire world screaming Go Green!

Komrad Gore, Ill buy that, lol

911 was a Russian plot through and through. It wasn't a 'long term' plot...it just came about as a 'way' when other world events presented themselves in such a fashion as to make that a justifiable goal.

Ok, you've revamped some of the "who" and "why", but now your conclusion must necessarily change. It wasn't an inside job, it was a Ruskkie job! For world domination, or something ...

In order to believe that, you have to believe Reagan was a Communist, Bush Sr was a Communist, Clinton, and Al Gore were Communists...but is that really hard to believe? Isn't most of Washington all One Party...and which party is that..the Communist Party!

Are you a Bircher ? Nah, probably too young.

[redhen]

Surely if all he wanted was publicity (like all media hounds/whores) he would have claimed he did it

Maybe he freaked at first when the attacks exceeded his wildest expectations.

Preferably authenticated by Al jazeera. I used to get that channel and their world news broadcast was probably the best news programme i have seen (by that i mean they stuck to facts and left out opinion/speculation)

Did you send me that wiki link? Anyways, "Most of the tapes were released directly (by mail or messenger) to Arabic language satellite television networks, primarily al Jazeera."

Looks like 34 videos there, it may take some time. I suppose just because al Jazeera aired the video, doesn't mean they "authenticated" it.

After a quick look, I don't think I'll find any audio/video of OBL, "authenticated" by al Jazeera. Would I expect the Washington Post to authenticate audio/video clips, or expert forensic officials and counter-terrorism experts, those in a position to know? Now we have agree on the appeal to authority criteria.

Edited January 15, 2013 by redhen

[+joc]

so far so good

I'll accept that

I'll accept that too, wait, do you mean Reagan ..

Sounds plausible

argh, you do mean that. And you were doing so well.

Komrad Bush, the plot thickens ...

You get extra points in my books !

Komrad Gore, Ill buy that, lol

Ok, you've revamped some of the "who" and "why", but now your conclusion must necessarily change. It wasn't an inside job, it was a Ruskkie job! For world domination, or something ...

Are you a Bircher ? Nah, probably too young.

Okay, let's get a bit more real...and a bit more plausible..because, frankly, I just don't believe Reagan was a Communist. Ah, but that Bush fellow...he is the one who has the beady eyes and started the whole New World Order business. He did test Reagan's new military against a real aggressor. He was also head of the CIA which meant he was one of the Trusted Ones...and his son did lie about seeing the plane hit the building. So...let's take Reagan out of it...Reagan thought he could bring down the Soviet Union's wall...and he did...and the Empire Imploded. He doesn't really have to fit into anything other than also being played by the KGB as Gorbachev was.

It was an inside job...because the participants were part of the Government. But the plan for World Domination has long been that of the Russian Government.

[redhen]

Okay, let's get a bit more real...and a bit more plausible..because, frankly, I just don't believe Reagan was a Communist.

Nah, me neither. (chortle)

Ah, but that Bush fellow...he is the one who has the beady eyes and started the whole New World Order business.

Is that right? Hmm.

He did test Reagan's new military against a real aggressor.

Check

He was also head of the CIA which meant he was one of the Trusted Ones...

Um, ok. The devil's in the details they say, lol

and his son did lie about seeing the plane hit the building. So...let's take Reagan out of it...Reagan thought he could bring down the Soviet Union's wall...and he did...and the Empire Imploded.

Kab00m ! Reagan was awesome!

He doesn't really have to fit into anything other than also being played by the KGB as Gorbachev was.

Just a patsy, like Oswald.

It was an inside job...because the participants were part of the Government. But the plan for World Domination has long been that of the Russian Government.

Well, I dunno about world domination, but I'm sure there's some who would like to see a reborn Russian Empire, maybe with a Czar...

Anyways, I'm gonna have to roll a joint to get into the same mind frame as you guys. It does sound so exciting and cool though!

[redhen]

So I was thinking, yeah I know I should stop it. I think most truthers believe it was indeed Muslim fanatics who hijacked the planes. But they were controlled by U.S. govt./Russians/World Banking system.etc.

Given that Muslim fanatical attacks have continued, and increased since 911; are they still under control of these secret international organizations? Or have the reigns of power been handed back to each sheriff and mullah?

And the NWO/whatever has moved on to even more secret better tools to obtain their goal of world financial/political/military domination?

thanks

[lightly]

*snip*

I notice you ignored the question about the secret service having to be in on it in your scenario.

if i may butt in... Why would the secret service have to be "in" on anything? They would stay with the president.. whether it was his decision to stay.. or upon advice.

Then, remember? .. he was wisked away for nearly a day? I think he needed to study his lines . .. and practice them in the mirror .

[pallidin]

Al Qaeda Operative Admits to Masterminding 9/11 Attacks:

WASHINGTON, March 14, 2007 – Suspected al Qaeda operative Khalid Sheikh Muhammad has admitted masterminding the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks as well as the World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

“I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z,” an interpreter read from Muhammad’s statement to the Combatant Status Review Tribunal on March 10 in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Source: http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=32456

[pallidin]

bin Laden:

He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html#ixzz2I0oLhANs

[+joc]

bin Laden:

He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c...l#ixzz2I0oLhANs

Seriously, what difference does it make what OBL said or didn't say? He was a tool of the Government and when they didn't need him anymore...they dropped a freaking Daisy Cutter on his head.

[skyeagle409]

Seriously, what difference does it make what OBL said or didn't say? He was a tool of the Government and when they didn't need him anymore...they dropped a freaking Daisy Cutter on his head.

He must have been the tool of a country other than the United States because he declared war on the United States.

[The Silver Thong]

so are you saying the planes were hijacked by the islamic fundamentalists?

No but yes, by allies of the United States of America, The same people George Bush kissed on the lips with. Saudia Arabia should have been bombed to hell and back

[The Silver Thong]

Actually, it has already been proven that al-Qaeda was behind the 9/11 attacks.

Who was behind al-Qaeda oh military master mind.

[The Silver Thong]

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=15&gs_id=ca&xhr=t&q=the+us+created+al+qaeda&es_nrs=true&pf=p&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&oq=the+us+created+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41018144,d.cGE&fp=a8c4825a90af5973&biw=1280&bih=565

[The Silver Thong]

First of all, there was no way the terrorist could have found that school from the air without adequate planning beforehand. Secondly, the fact that President Bush was warned not to return to Washington D.C. was another clue, and thirdly, there was a prime reason why Air Force One conducted that extreme climb-out.

Tell me how 4 hijacked planes one being the one that hit the pentagon got through the most secure air space on the planet with other planes already being smashed into buildings.

Your an airforce guy that claims the US is hiding aliens should be able to explain that easy right. Or should we go back to it was to cover up the aliens you claim to be here.

Sky you claim the US is hiding the biggest discovery ever aka aliens and you can`t grasp your government to cover up a false war lol

Edited January 15, 2013 by The Silver Thong

[The Silver Thong]

bin Laden:

He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c...l#ixzz2I0oLhANs

So you now believe Osama and fox news Oye