Do Scientists Fear the Paranormal?

[Emma_Acid]

There is repeatable and statistically significant experiments.

Sheldrakes experiments regarding the sense of being stared at are a good example.

There is a dogma in science

Sheldrake's experiments aren't scientific.

Since mainstream media is heavily controlled and censored concerning content, at least "youtube" offers one an alternative platform in which to communicate to the masses.

That says it all really.

Scientists have a burning desire to EXPLAIN everything (it's in their DNA), that's why they trash Religion because they can't explain it and it makes them feel uncomfortable.

Dawkins is the prime example of this, he's become a kind of front man for the Atheist movement!

Of course science can explain religion. There's a huge body of work about the evolution of religious thought and experience. And when Dawkins becomes a front man for atheism, that is because he cares about the effect organised religion has on society and progress. And rightly so.

Scientists better get ready for the day when Science finally unites with the Paranormal and begins scientifically explaining paranormal phenomena. Like they said in the anime movie Dead Space, Convergence is coming people. Soon it will be discovered that the Paranormal and the spiritual world is real.

There has never, ever, been any evidence for the existence of the paranormal. And anime is fiction by the way.

[Simbi Laveau]

In the 12th century or any time before ,if someone told the average man,do you know you have little round things in your body ,that keep you alive ? It's in that red stuff that comes out of us when we get cut ...

What would average man have said ?

You're crazy,there is no proof of that,at all .

Man is so arrogant today,that man feels nothing is beyond his oh so sagacious grasp .He has any and all technology ,to be GOD .

When its entirely possible ,the means to measure the paranormal,has yet to be invented on this plane of existance .

If it took centuries to figure out what blood was ,and how it worked ,it can also take centuries to figure out how to talk to a ghost in day to day life .

[Blood_Sacrifice]

There has never, ever, been any evidence for the existence of the paranormal. And anime is fiction by the way.

More importantly, if there are some detectable and objectively measurable evidence for what is generally regarded as paranormal events, will those events remain paranormal anymore? With evidence, the supernatural would become natural, no? So...finding scientific evidence for the paranormal/supernatural is a paradox. It's like trying to find a three-sided square or a four-sided triangle. If it's beyond natural, then it's inherently unprovable, non-testable, non-falsifiable and therefore completely outside the field of any objevtive analysis.

If people want to believe in the paranormal/supernatural, then they should realize there can never be any material/objective evidence for their existence (very much by definition). If there are evidences, then sorry to the supernatural-fans, but well...the supernatural won't remain supernatural anymore. It will become part of the natural world.

It is not impossible for things we currently consider supernatural/paranormal to have an objective explanation that we still have not figured out. Just like sleep-paralysis and hallucination have objective explanations today and are no longer at the hand of some supernatural djinns or devils.

In short:

If it is supernatural, then there can never be any objective, testable evidence (by definition).

If there are any objective, testable evidences, then it's not supernatural (by definition).

Why try to find evidence to prove what is by definition unprovable? And if one wants to prove, then why call them unprovable in the first place? It makes less than no sense.

(This isn't directed at you Emma, but at the post you quoted. But your post sparked the thought so I responded by quoting you).

Edited January 18, 2013 by Blood_Sacrifice

[JesseCuster]

Since mainstream media is heavily controlled and censored concerning content, at least "youtube" offers one an alternative platform in which to communicate to the masses.

Yes, the mainstream media is heavily controlled and censored concerning with like promoting mainstream science and denying the paranormal.

That's why when I browse the documentary channels looking for something good to watch, it's awash with crap like Ancient Aliens, Most Haunted, etc. and there's less and less actual mainstream science and history as time goes by.

Sounds like the "mainstream media" is doing a pretty crap job of censoring paranormal content and promoting mainstream science.

[NiteMarcher]

Does he have a history of schizophrenia?

Do you honestly believe that a foreign policy "think tank" (RAND) founded by the US military & funded in part by the US government would

have invited a "schizophrenic" to come in and view their archives?

[scowl]

More like "explained away". With preposterous

Theories derided from "slothful induction", such

as Periodolia and "Mass Hysteria"....

It's all in our minds!!! And when it strikes in numbers,

"Mass Hysteria"!! How convenient.

This is the Fortean misconception of science, that science simply must be able to explain all things immediately otherwise it collapses like a deck of cards. Science can't explain everything people think they see or everything people claim they see. Many classic Fortean incidents like raining fish were eventually explained.

In the 12th century or any time before ,if someone told the average man,do you know you have little round things in your body ,that keep you alive ? It's in that red stuff that comes out of us when we get cut ...

What would average man have said ?

You're crazy,there is no proof of that,at all .

Actually no one claimed that because no one knew it. This is a strawman argument.

Man is so arrogant today,that man feels nothing is beyond his oh so sagacious grasp .He has any and all technology ,to be GOD .

That must be why man is no longer creating new technology and science has been abandoned. Yep, we didn't send a probe to Pluto. We've stopped sending probes to Mars. New space telescope? We have Hubble just like God does! New supercoliders? No thanks, we now know absolutely everything about subatomic particles, just like God does.

When its entirely possible ,the means to measure the paranormal,has yet to be invented on this plane of existance .

The means to measure these things already exists. We have cameras and audio recording equipment and scientists have in fact used these to measure the paranormal. They have shown that paranormal experiences generally have normal explanations and that regular paranormal phenomena tend to immediately stop when such measuring equipment arrives.

It's interesting that you claim that the paranormal exists while also admitting we have no way to verify it exists at the moment. Scientists don't jump to conclusions like that.

If it took centuries to figure out what blood was ,and how it worked ,it can also take centuries to figure out how to talk to a ghost in day to day life .

Actually it only took Anton van Leeuwenhoek a few minutes with a microscope to discover red blood cells. It greatly helped him that they existed.

[Crikey]

Regarding this thread's title "Do scientists fear the Paranormal", the anser is YES..

A few years ago Brit atheists (fronted by neurotic Dawkins natch) splashed out £150,000 (238,000 US dollars) to have these adverts plastered on Brit buses.

It indicates-

1- They admit they're worried about God

2- They say "there's probably no God" whichshows they're not sure

3- £150,000 was a complete waste of good money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Bus_Campaign

[Rlyeh]

Do you honestly believe that a foreign policy "think tank" (RAND) founded by the US military & funded in part by the US government would

have invited a "schizophrenic" to come in and view their archives?

Unless they're also psychic, you're assuming they knew.

[Rlyeh]

Regarding this thread's title "Do scientists fear the Paranormal", the anser is YES..

A few years ago Brit atheists (fronted by neurotic Dawkins natch) splashed out £150,000 (238,000 US dollars) to have these adverts plastered on Brit buses.

It indicates-

1- They admit they're worried about God

2- They say "there's probably no God" whichshows they're not sure

3- £150,000 was a complete waste of good money.

1. doesn't make sense. Where are they worried about God?

2. So they're honest?

3. How is it any different to the money you waste?

[NiteMarcher]

Unless they're also psychic, you're assuming they knew.

I'm sure the invitation was extended after a thorough back ground check, validation of credentials, but most likely due to his extraordinary talent in the field of journalism. Where millions of dollars are concerned their is no room for assumption.

[Crikey]

1. doesn't make sense. Where are they worried about God?

2. So they're honest?

3. How is it any different to the money you waste?

Look at the wording of their advert again, they say "Stop worrying", but Christians DON'T worry, so obviously the message is aimed at jumpy atheists..

And it says "There's probably no God", so the word "probably" means they're flip-flopping and unsure!

As regards wasting money, I regularly give to local good causes, I'd never use it to fund silly adverts on buses..

[Bendy Demon]

More like "explained away". With preposterous

Theories derided from "slothful induction", such

as Periodolia and "Mass Hysteria"....

It's all in our minds!!! And when it strikes in numbers,

"Mass Hysteria"!! How convenient.

Convenient because it is true.

The reason many people hate rational explanations is because it totally demolishes their little boat of fantasy and woo theories.

Once the veil of genies, fairies and boogey-men has been ripped down, they don't like the reality behind it.

[_Only]

I don't think scientists fear the paranormal. I think a lot of the scientific minded individuals who post here ridiculing anyone who thinks in a different manner than scientifically involving the paranormal fear being wrong. A scientist has no fear of finding something new, but a human has a fear of being wrong.

[_Only]

Do people read books and magazines any more or do they learn everything from youtube?

If the real question was do most people spend time in libraries studying peer reviewed scientific documentation like you, the answer is obviously no. Us common interested individuals do watch videos on our computer when we're sitting and conversing on our computers. I don't know how why these contrasting scenarios are left open to hyperbolic interpretation for you. We all have our interests, not yours. We're still allowed to discuss though, hopefully without fear of being made to look unintelligent in your eyes.

[JesseCuster]

Look at the wording of their advert again, they say "Stop worrying", but Christians DON'T worry, so obviously the message is aimed at jumpy atheists..

Is that a fact?

I've met orthodox/fundamentalist Christians who were genuinely worried about the afterlife because their versions of Christianity had such strict rules about getting into heaven that they genuinely feared that they and/or their families might do or believe the wrong thing and end up in hell for eternity.

[White Crane Feather]

Sheldrakes has abandoned the world of science for the more profitable arena of writing popular books and making presentations to non-scientific audiences.

Do people read books and magazines any more or do they learn everything from youtube?

Crap... I had a big long post for this. But now I see it did not go through.... I'm sorry.. Iphone is great. But I can't keep up because when I'm on my laptop it's business.

[_Only]

Actually it only took Anton van Leeuwenhoek a few minutes with a microscope to discover red blood cells. It greatly helped him that they existed.

So the microscope was sitting around for thousands of years just waiting for Anton to pick it up and figure out in a few minutes what made up blood? I guess we'll just wait for the next chosen one to find the device sitting around for thousands of years that will let us figure out the paranormal. Silly idea, but not much more than your response. To think that no one had ever wondered what makes up blood until van 'hoek sat down.

[Judeaous]

This is the Fortean misconception of science, that science simply must be able to explain all things immediately otherwise it collapses like a deck of cards. Science can't explain everything people think they see or everything people claim they see. Many classic Fortean incidents like raining fish were eventually explained.

I'm sure if good ole Chuck Fort knew that science named "The Fortean misconception" after him, heed a-been laughing like a hyena over it, cause that's the kinda man'ee was.

A true "Hard Working" Supernaturalist was he, a "real world" thinker with enough depth perception to see how ridicules scientific theory can sound in its explanations of the unknown.

This was a great man, "the father of paranormal research". If today's para-normal researchers followed in his footsteps, rather then clinging to the skirts of men like Carl Sagen, we might actually get some answers.... Ps. I would have loved to hear what he would have said about pareidolia.

Sent from my iPhone

[Rlyeh]

Look at the wording of their advert again, they say "Stop worrying"

Who are they talking to?

but Christians DON'T worry, so obviously the message is aimed at jumpy atheists..

lol. So all the Christians who do worry aren't Christians and therefore atheists?

I know for a fact many Christians worry.

But it seems like in your world there are only christians and atheists. Are Jews, Christians or atheists? What about Muslims, are they Christians or atheists?

And it says "There's probably no God", so the word "probably" means they're flip-flopping and unsure!

Flip-flop means to change your mind on an issue.

As regards wasting money, I regularly give to local good causes, I'd never use it to fund silly adverts on buses..

Good in your opinion. All you're doing is criticizing what someone spends their money on.

You really didn't think out your reply did you?

Edited January 20, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Crikey]

I've met orthodox/fundamentalist Christians who were genuinely worried about the afterlife because their versions of Christianity had such strict rules about getting into heaven that they genuinely feared that they and/or their families might do or believe the wrong thing and end up in hell for eternity.

If fundies are going to heaven, I swear I don't wanna go..

They hate my guts, I get messages like this when I try to log back into their forums-

"Your account has been disabled,

Please do not make any attempt to participate further in any of our Communities"

No sweat, they can't get under Jesus's radar-

"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, GET AWAY FROM ME!" (Matt 7:21-23)

No sweat, they can't get under Jesus's radar

[JesseCuster]

If fundies are going to heaven, I swear I don't wanna go..

They hate my guts, I get messages like this when I try to log back into their forums-

"Your account has been disabled,

Please do not make any attempt to participate further in any of our Communities"

No sweat, they can't get under Jesus's radar-

"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, GET AWAY FROM ME!" (Matt 7:21-23)

No sweat, they can't get under Jesus's radar

Ah, the "not a true Christian" argument.

You sound just like those who "can't get under Jesus's radar", dismissing left, right and center people not real Christians and therefore won't be in heaven with you. Only certain Christians are really Christians and deserve eternity in heaven instead of getting tossed into the fiery lake, huh? And of course you happen to be one of the real Christians...

Yup, you don't sound that much different than them.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Archimedes

[Crikey]

Ah, the "not a true Christian" argument... Only certain Christians are really Christians and deserve eternity in heaven instead of getting tossed into the fiery lake, huh? And of course you happen to be one of the real Christians...

Nice try mate but no..

We all know fundy xians are small-minded creeps, so you surely can't expect us to believe they'll go to heaven?

As for the rest of us, none of us know if we're heaven-bound, heck I'm an ex-convict (3-month vigilante rap) so my chances are...who knows?

Even Paul never assumed he'd automatically make it through the pearlies-

"I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)

[AsteroidX]

Somedays Id rather go to hell if all these nutjobs are heaven bound.

[Judeaous]

Convenient because it is true.

The reason many people hate rational explanations is because it totally demolishes their little boat of fantasy and woo theories.

Once the veil of genies, fairies and boogey-men has been ripped down, they don't like the reality behind it.

Ryu, your post reflects a point I like to bring up about Science, which is on target with topic..... Your statement champions scientific theory over the supernatural, comparing the latter to

"Genies, Fairies and Boogymen". The language used is an attempt to "Dyphemise" the supernatural through use of weak analogy. This type of un-objective rhetoric is fine for a message board, as Ive found myself guilty on the opposing side...But!! Science itself uses this style of writing to sell its wares to the unbeknownst readers of its theory's opposing the para-normal. Ghost Hunting and Clairvoyance are lumped together with Bigfoot, lockness, UFOs, and other unrelated data. A newbie picks up a psych text and learns about "Pareidolia" for the first time... The examples shown are vague coincidences of nature, such as the Virgen Mary on a tortilla, or Jesus on a slice of burnt toast. (You will not see a good, authentic ghost pic. like The Lord Cumbremere) as an example. The reader then forms their own conclusions about the issue, solidified by the "trusted" text. It's not unlike .."un-objective brainwashing" to sell its theory's concerning the supernatural. If science has to resort to this kind of reporting.... It leaves one to wonder....

Is The Governing Board of the 20 top Scientific Society's afraid to accept clairvoyance and spiritualism as legitimate?

"People with a psychological need to believe in marvels are no more prejudiced and gullible than people with a psychological need not to believe in marvels."

Charles Fort

Sent from my iPhone

[spartan max2]

" Science progresses one funeral at a time"

Max Planck