Stardrive Posted January 31, 2013 #51 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The "need to believe" thing is not about the non-shortage of non-believers but about the relative exclusivity of true-believers and/or make-believers who claim multiple sightings/experiences - it's a sub-cultural status thing. My mistake again, I read and responded to your post in haste. @me. On the other side of the coin, it could also just be the person who had the sighting got a very good look at it leaving only marginal room for error in thier visual perception. Of course, as a field investigator, you would have to take into account a persons integrity and reliability. I would however avoid using the term "believer" if at all possible because that makes everyone a "believer" in some capacity. Example, QC and Sakari are believers. How so you may ask? Because they "believe" there's not a snowmans chance in hades they exist. So I can even say they are true believers and not be off the mark. Plus using the word believer makes it sound like a religion. QC and Sakari, I did not mean any disrespect toward either of you in any way. You guys (and gals) have high ground, I do not, and I understand that. There is good reason that even compelling evidence is inconclusive at best and it has nothing to do with a creature as yet uncategorised by science And the good reason is?? - I don't mind declaring that Yowie/Bigfoot simply does not objectively exist (subjective existence is another story). Which would make you a true believer. You truely believe they don't exist in a physical form. I know the term is used for simplicities sake, but we may want to consider another term that is more accurate. But if the Yowie/Bigfoot doesn't exist then what is it? Or, more accurately, what is going on? The answer has always been right in front of us but it is not as sexy as the mystery/fantasy of what could be out there. Enchantment is important. Believers and skeptics are simply partaking in the same merry dance that has been going on for at least the last few hundred years and in various guises. Why should the Yowie/Bigfoot phenomenon be any different? I will agree the psychological aspect is worthy of being investigated. And from what I can tell, that is the path you have chosen. I'm of the opinion that proponents and skeptics are drawn to the this subject because it's a great exercise in critical thinking and there are things all parties can learn from the discussions involked. That's my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanity Posted January 31, 2013 #52 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Ever noticed that creatures that are bipedal tend to sit on their butt and the backs of their legs? Monkeys, gorillas and humans all do it and they show a wear pattern..............that action tends to grind and break off the hair covering those body parts. If you look at the PGF and watch Bigfoot walk away......he/she has a hairy old a$$, however the hair is pretty uniform showing no signs of wear from sitting, almost looks like it's been brushed. You have to look with your eyes and interpret for yourself. Whether or not any wear could be seen would have to do with the contrast of the hair to the skin, in my thoughts. Gorillas often have black, sometimes gray skin, and a coat of hair of a dark color. It is possible from a distance, the contrast between a patch in the fur and the skin beneath may not be enough to see a difference. There are a few frames in the PG Film where a difference in color can been seen on the subject's rear. Whether that is due to a wear of the fur, or a change in the light and sheen of the fur, I do not know. In fact, the coloring of the fur does vary over different parts of the body, and some may be due to lightning, some may be due to wear. Edited January 31, 2013 by Insanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-C Posted January 31, 2013 #53 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) You guys (and gals) have high ground, I do not, and I understand that. I'm not sure what you mean and i'm not looking for an explanation. I am in no shortage of attitude, and i apologize for that. But I want you to know, in no way do I look down on anyone doing research into a sincere belief in bigfoot. Hoaxers, fame-seekers, scammers, and those who beg for ridicule (imo, obviously) I offer no mercy, true. But I would never think myself above you in any way for the belief you hold or the searching you do. No matter how I come across. Heck, I'd go out looking with any sincere searcher, and enjoy myself tremendously without ever feeling the slightest bit of superiority. In fact, I love to learn anything... anywhere. And I take every opportunity to learn something, and don't doubt I would learn from you as you had things to show me. Now, I may not see bigfoot evidence, Stardrive, but I'd learn about your stomping ground and your areas of knowledge and interests. And why you believe what you believe. And I know I'd be impressed! Edited January 31, 2013 by QuiteContrary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninsc Posted January 31, 2013 #54 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Whether or not any wear could be seen would have to do with the contrast of the hair to the skin, in my thoughts. Gorillas often have black, sometimes gray skin, and a coat of hair of a dark color. It is possible from a distance, the contrast between a patch in the fur and the skin beneath may not be enough to see a difference. There are a few frames in the PG Film where a difference in color can been seen on the subject's rear. Whether that is due to a wear of the fur, or a change in the light and sheen of the fur, I do not know. In fact, the coloring of the fur does vary over different parts of the body, and some may be due to lightning, some may be due to wear. Ok, never mind..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Walker Posted January 31, 2013 #55 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) And the good reason is?? It doesn't exist. Which would make you a true believer. You truely believe they don't exist in a physical form. I know the term is used for simplicities sake, but we may want to consider another term that is more accurate. I don't know. For me it is not about belief but about evidence. I don't have to believe that there is no evidence otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this on a mystery forum. I would change my position should actual evidence arise whereas "believers" are under no obligation because they "know the truth" despite the evidence. Perhaps "make-believers" is a more appropriate term considering the amount of fakery and fantasy that is evident within the phenomenon. "Experiencers" is ok but there is often no distinction between fantasy and reality which brings us back to "make-belief"... Edited January 31, 2013 by Night Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-C Posted January 31, 2013 #56 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Whether or not any wear could be seen would have to do with the contrast of the hair to the skin, in my thoughts. Gorillas often have black, sometimes gray skin, and a coat of hair of a dark color. It is possible from a distance, the contrast between a patch in the fur and the skin beneath may not be enough to see a difference. There are a few frames in the PG Film where a difference in color can been seen on the subject's rear. Whether that is due to a wear of the fur, or a change in the light and sheen of the fur, I do not know. In fact, the coloring of the fur does vary over different parts of the body, and some may be due to lightning, some may be due to wear. That is very true, certain areas do appear lighter, a number of areas all over her body. In fact, so much so she looks like she has mange if all were to be bare patches. But then in some other shots I still "think I see" fur on a lot of those patches, so that it may be just be sunlight. But honestly, it's difficult for me to be convinced either way and it's probably a combination of both wear and sunlight. Would "fur" on such a costume wear so badly? If so, at what point do you stop using the costume and put it away or throw it out? If you use it until it is threadbare, why and for what use? If the light areas are all wear, it would make for a lousy costume to use, imo. But maybe cheaper in cost? I guess it could be made that way from the start, but copying say the gorilla, their fur is just so thick all over, it appears after searching gorilla images.. Oh...wait a minute... Patty is speaking to me from the dead.. she says...she says... "Shut up already!"... It was just a bad fur day, that's all. Edited January 31, 2013 by QuiteContrary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninsc Posted February 1, 2013 #57 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Personally, I have no idea what the actual color of the skin of a Bigfoot is, oddly a Polar bear supposedly has black skin under all that white fir.......however, I've never shaved a Polar bear so I can't say. And while I'm no expert on Bigfoot physiology, I can say that I have watched videos and documentaries of apes and I have noticed they have wear areas on their knees, buttocks and outer thighs. This varies greatly from ape to ape, but it is there. So I think it a reasonable assumption that a Bigfoot, which is also supposed to be a bipedal fur covered creature, would have the same sort of wear patterns. Of course this is a speculative leap on my part and hell, I could be wrong. But I can say that I wear out the seat of my pants, the knees and the outer thighs. And I have to include myself in the group of bipedal creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Walker Posted February 1, 2013 #58 Share Posted February 1, 2013 What of Patty's uniformly hairy breasts? Only possible via fabrication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninsc Posted February 1, 2013 #59 Share Posted February 1, 2013 You have to ask one of the other guys who's a breast man, I'm a leg and butt guy myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuna2275 Posted February 1, 2013 #60 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Strange... Bigfoot Walked on The side of the road see the footprints... Bigfoot never walked on the center... Oh well Maybe Bigfoot is hitching for a ride!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-C Posted February 1, 2013 #61 Share Posted February 1, 2013 What of Patty's uniformly hairy breasts? Only possible via fabrication? I had wondered that once too. But I looked at pictures of lactating apes and the amount of breast hair did vary from none, to a bit hairy- but possibly long hair that overhangs the breasts? Hard to tell from photos. However, Patty's again to me looks like carpet/fur covered breasts. I know gorillas have hair, but theirs is carpet-thick/fur-like to me as opposed to obvious hair of chimps or orangutans that have areas of thinning . But the gorilla mothers have barer breasts, again trying to discern from I-net photos and a controversial bf photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-C Posted February 1, 2013 #62 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Strange... Bigfoot Walked on The side of the road see the footprints... Bigfoot never walked on the center... Oh well Maybe Bigfoot is hitching for a ride!!! According to some, bigfoot likes to tread off the beaten path if possible, to help cover his tracks. Bf is very clever remember. However, some bf don't get the memo or are a tease- here a track, there a track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardrive Posted February 1, 2013 #63 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I'm not sure what you mean and i'm not looking for an explanation. I am in no shortage of attitude, and i apologize for that. Then how about if I clarify... lol. Taking the position "it does not exist", is the high ground. It's a nice warm & fuzzy place to be, and at times that's where I wish I were. But I want you to know, in no way do I look down on anyone doing research into a sincere belief in bigfoot. Hoaxers, fame-seekers, scammers, and those who beg for ridicule (imo, obviously) I offer no mercy, true. But I would never think myself above you in any way for the belief you hold or the searching you do. No matter how I come across. Heck, I'd go out looking with any sincere searcher, and enjoy myself tremendously without ever feeling the slightest bit of superiority. In fact, I love to learn anything... anywhere. And I take every opportunity to learn something, and don't doubt I would learn from you as you had things to show me. Now, I may not see bigfoot evidence, Stardrive, but I'd learn about your stomping ground and your areas of knowledge and interests. And why you believe what you believe. And I know I'd be impressed! I appreciate that QC. Yeah there's alot of disinformation out there that's for sure. And just for record, I'm not writing a book, belong to a research organization, nor seek any attention (good or bad) from the fruits of my searching. I will admit my findings are not anything that have been reported by others who research, as far as I know. I've attempted to explain it to other researchers but I've been shunned by them. I've attempted to get a scientist to look at it with no luck there either. The search will continue nonetheless, but only on a personal level. I've invited keninsc to come for a visit so he could see for himself. I hope he takes me up on it. His help and expertise would be most welcome and I know I'd learn alot from him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardrive Posted February 1, 2013 #64 Share Posted February 1, 2013 It doesn't exist. I doesn't exist to the best of your knowledge. I don't know. For me it is not about belief but about evidence. I don't have to believe that there is no evidence otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this on a mystery forum. I would change my position should actual evidence arise I'm curious as to what you would consider "actual" evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-C Posted February 1, 2013 #65 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I've invited keninsc to come for a visit so he could see for himself. I hope he takes me up on it. His help and expertise would be most welcome and I know I'd learn alot from him. We lived in Virginia for 3 years. Beautiful valleys, and so pretty to fly over. My husband loved to ride his Hondas and Harleys on the Blue Ridge Parkway. We enjoyed camping along the James River with our boys. If we still lived there, my husband and I would gladly join you. He looks tough, but he's really much much nicer than I am. Edited February 1, 2013 by QuiteContrary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninsc Posted February 2, 2013 #66 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I hope to take Stardrive up on his very kind invitation in the near future. I think we could learn from each other. Although, I have been called a cross between Grizzly Adams, Moses and a Neo-Nazi when I head out into the woods. So I hope if I were ever to meet your husband QC I didn't freak him out. My own speculations about this creature suggests that they do have certain "habits" or it's probably better described as "tendencies" because like Stardrive points out, not all the Bigfoots seem to get the memos about what they're supposed to do. For instance most Bigfoot sighting in broken wooded areas tend to be someone saw a Biggy walking parallel to them, but not on a trail. If this were any other creature than an alleged Biggy, this would be considered "stalking activity". Not so much hunting, although hunting could be a function of what they're doing or just plain curiosity about what it's seeing. Monkeys are curious as all get out and so are humans so it's not like there isn't anything to base an assumption on to begin with and we, or at least I can attest to the fact that people are curious, don't all follow the same patterns, do odd things from time to time......and did I mention curious? Not to mention there have been a number of supposed sighting where there were single females or multiple females or children. I can't speak on behalf of the local Bigfoot Chapter in my area, but I been known to follow girls around from time to time. Well, until the judge made me promise not to do it any more but that another story completely. Ok, we won't talk about that any more.....will we? This would also tend to explain why with so many as it would take to support a breeding population there are relatively few footprints found in a given area. Now why hasn't there been a body found.......those meddling porcupines! Seriously, the only semi-reasonable explanation I have ever come up with is they tend to stay off the beaten path, for whatever reason, so when they die they are apt to do so in those same places where people don't go so much.......because the path is a hundred meters to the left and it's a lot easier walking over there. That is not a panacea explanation, it's as wholly as an old pair of my drawers, but I think it's a place to start. I should say again I am in massive hopes that Stardrive and I can hook up and do a little look out in Southwestern Virgina, and hell even if we don't find anything we can enjoy being out is nature and making friends. Hell guys, if you need more reason than that to do something then there's something missing in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Walker Posted February 2, 2013 #67 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I'm curious as to what you would consider "actual" evidence. A specimen - preferably several. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dharma warrior Posted February 2, 2013 #68 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Funny stuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardrive Posted February 2, 2013 #69 Share Posted February 2, 2013 But you have to remember until such a creature is turned into science for study, even compelling "evidence" is inconclusive at best. There is good reason that even compelling evidence is inconclusive at best and it has nothing to do with a creature as yet uncategorised by science I'm curious as to what you would consider "actual" evidence. A specimen - preferably several. As I was saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardrive Posted February 2, 2013 #70 Share Posted February 2, 2013 According to some, bigfoot likes to tread off the beaten path if possible, to help cover his tracks. Bf is very clever remember. However, some bf don't get the memo or are a tease- here a track, there a track. E I E I O. Ha! I've seen footlike impressions in the ground, but when it comes to prints I'm not good enough to know what I'm looking at. That's where ken comes in. He can also help verifying game trail manipulation and herding techniques to a kill zone amongst other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Walker Posted February 2, 2013 #71 Share Posted February 2, 2013 As I was saying.... That's the Bigfoot 2-step. Whether you are a believer/knower/experiencer, skeptic, or on the fence we are all engaged in this merry dance that goes round and round. Where there is Life there is Hope or Where there is Hope there is Life? Either way, we all get what we're really after (except a specimen - that would ruin everything for everyone!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardrive Posted February 3, 2013 #72 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Maybe you were just testing to see if I was paying attention this time...lol I'm not into the psychological side of this. But I am into the learning new things side of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted February 3, 2013 #73 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Maybe you were just testing to see if I was paying attention this time...lol I'm not into the psychological side of this. But I am into the learning new things side of it. No offense at all. After reading through, I would say you are. Maybe you just do not know it At the least, it is into you. Edited February 3, 2013 by Sakari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardrive Posted February 4, 2013 #74 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Maybe maybe not. Ya'll have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninsc Posted February 5, 2013 #75 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) That's the Bigfoot 2-step. Whether you are a believer/knower/experiencer, skeptic, or on the fence we are all engaged in this merry dance that goes round and round. Where there is Life there is Hope or Where there is Hope there is Life? Either way, we all get what we're really after (except a specimen - that would ruin everything for everyone!) At least Stardrive is out looking, which is a great deal more than most of us here are doing, myself included. I know I'd like to see a real.......something, body, skeleton, a live Bigfoot because the only reason I'm open to the possibility is because of what happened to two friends of mine. My only encounter was a smell so.........oh dear..........twenty-one or so years ago. Me, I'd love nothing better than to find conclusive proof they exist, even if that takes away from the mystic and allure these creatures seem to conjure up. ......and if I do get the chance to join Stardrive and go looking about for whatever we can find, I'm sure we'll have a good time of it. Hell, we might even post up some pictures of us out and about out "Squatchin'". Edited February 5, 2013 by keninsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now